Page 38 of 40 FirstFirst ...
28
36
37
38
39
40
LastLast
  1. #741
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    13,027
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Are we talking about that Cenarion Circle that you were killing as Horde both before AND after Cataclysm and that always had exactly 0 (zero) NPC hostile to Alliance? See, Horde don't like them. They must be evil too.
    What, where, why?
    I really can't remember killing them, I have them on Revered and Honoured.

  2. #742
    well the draenei met the alliance night elves, thought they were pretty cool, but before that met some blood elves, who were more allied with Kel'thas but close enough for the sake of building that early on faction tension.

  3. #743
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    9,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Orcs didn't attack of their own accord, they were enslaved by the Legion.


    "Thrall was found by human soldiers and raised as a slave and gladiator." -WC3 Manual
    So they shouldn't be punished because they were manipulated by demons?

    Thrall, of course is an exception. Most of the orcs were not born into captivity.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Not true. Even high Eredar lords can be redeemed, if they so desire. I suggest you do the following quest line:

    Socrethar's Shadow
    statistical outliers will always exist. anamolistic events contrary to the stated event but these are not contributive to the salvation of the majority as a whole.

    Also i remember that quest and it doesnt count cause the draenai in question was a very recent convert given some chaotic power who spent the majority of his life as a light following draenai (who despaired due to the loss of close-ones {he's originally found trying to vainly resurrect a fallen ally over and over} and his doubts due to the inclusion of the blood elf faction who are individually responsible for hte death of people he knows). He's not a true Manari and wasnt truely given the whole 9 yards of curruption and twisting by the legion to become one of their own. What was the event that should have been his moral event horizon, (the death of the priestess) instead galvanized his true faith and beliefs and he made up for his mistake.

    hardly a manari, let alone an Eredar or high eredar lord (respecting the disassociation Draenai have with their previous names)

    the one who was an Eredar lord (responsible for turning the draenai or atleast having tried) got obliterated
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2013-01-20 at 01:13 PM.

  5. #745
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    7,065
    The USA is supposed to be this bastion of modern civilization and we can't go 10 years without invading someone.
    Haha PWN'D ^_^

    Also i remember that quest and it doesnt count cause the draenai in question was a very recent convert given some chaotic power who spent the majority of his life as a light following draenai (who despaired due to the loss of close-ones {he's originally found trying to vainly resurrect a fallen ally over and over} and his doubts due to the inclusion of the blood elf faction who are individually responsible for hte death of people he knows). He's not a true Manari and wasnt truely given the whole 9 yards of curruption and twisting by the legion to become one of their own. What was the event that should have been his moral event horizon, (the death of the priestess) instead galvanized his true faith and beliefs and he made up for his mistake.
    You REALLY should do the Quest again and read the dialogue this time!

    They offer SOCRETHAR HIMSELF (the big red mean dude) salvation if he wants it.
    But of course he doesn't want it.
    The other, freshly fallen Draenei that only gets soft when Socrethar kills Ishanah and is subsequently destroyed by his master for rezzing her, is not the one I'm talking about.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    So they shouldn't be punished because they were manipulated by demons?

    Thrall, of course is an exception. Most of the orcs were not born into captivity.
    The Legion had the Orcs hopped on psychoactive drugs. IRL laws, people can't give consent when someone slips them psychoactive drugs (statutory rape, aka date rape). It's a mitigating circumstance that should be taken into account when punishment is being decided.

    Thrall wasn't born into captivity. He was found as a baby after his parents were killed.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #747
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    7,065
    The Legion had the Orcs hopped on psychoactive drugs. IRL laws, people can't give consent when someone slips them psychoactive drugs (statutory rape, aka date rape). It's a mitigating circumstance that should be taken into account when punishment is being decided.
    Which is why my priestess doesn't blame the average grunt for what they did. She hates them, nonetheless, but she doesn't seek retribution.
    Their leaders, however, who made a conscious choice are an entire other matter.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  8. #748
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    9,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Legion had the Orcs hopped on psychoactive drugs. IRL laws, people can't give consent when someone slips them psychoactive drugs (statutory rape, aka date rape). It's a mitigating circumstance that should be taken into account when punishment is being decided.

    Thrall wasn't born into captivity. He was found as a baby after his parents were killed.
    The demon blood only enhances the orcs' bloodlust. And I don't think, thatz if an agressive person willingly takes drugs that enhances his agressiveness he should just go out of that whole deal unpunished. And even without the demon blood the Legion would've been able to instrumentalize them. And people have argued before that in the Second War they weren't controlled by demons anymore anyway. Since they were led by an uncorrupted Orgrim Doomhammer, who fought for his people and not for the Legion, a bit of demonblood does not free the orcs of their guilt.

    For Thrall it was almost the same as being born into captivity since he never knew anything else, don't be such a smartass.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    a bit of demonblood does not free the orcs of their guilt.
    If the Draenei had simply told the Orcs about Kil'jaeden then things would have been different. Lets also not forget the Velen sent most of his own people to be slaughtered in Shattrath to save his own ass. Hundreds of worlds have been fed to the Legion thanks to the Draenei. They are hardly innocent little lambs in all of this.
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The demon blood only enhances the orcs' bloodlust. And I don't think, thatz if an agressive person willingly takes drugs that enhances his agressiveness he should just go out of that whole deal unpunished. And even without the demon blood the Legion would've been able to instrumentalize them. And people have argued before that in the Second War they weren't controlled by demons anymore anyway. Since they were led by an uncorrupted Orgrim Doomhammer, who fought for his people and not for the Legion, a bit of demonblood does not free the orcs of their guilt.

    For Thrall it was almost the same as being born into captivity since he never knew anything else, don't be such a smartass.
    The Orcs had so much blood lust that they peacefully coexisted with the Draenei for almost 1000 years. There were also Orcs who questioned their war with the Draenei.

    The Orcs drank the Blood because they thought it was steroids. They didn't know it would warp their minds. Only Gul'dan knew this when he offered it to them. Without the Blood, the Legion could only use the Orcs by impersonating their ancestors and spirits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise of the Horde
    "Behold my lieutenant, Mannoroth. Well has he served me and well shall he continue to serve. On other worlds, they call him the Destructor. But here, he is the savior. Gul'dan," purred Kil’jaeden, and suddenly Gul'dan felt weak and sick again. "You know what I am offering your people."
    Gul'dan swallowed hard. He did not dare glance at Ner'zhul, whose gaze he felt boring into his back.
    Yes, he knew well what Kil’jaeden was offering. Power beyond imagining . . . and slavery for eternity. Kil’jaeden had offered the former to Ner'zhul in exchange for the latter, and Ner'zhul, the coward, had balked. He had not wanted to doom his people. Gul'dan was untroubled by such scruples.
    Doomhammer didn't agree with the war against the Draenei and never trusted Gul'dan. I'm not sure why he continued to fight the Humans after he learned of Gul'dan's machinations, destroyed the Shadow Council, and took over the Horde. Perhaps he succumbed to the madness and blood lust that surrounded him.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #751
    Why are orcs and draenei at war ?! Good question. Here's another good question: WHY ARE PANDAREN IN A STATE OF CIVIL WAR ALL OF A SUDDEN ?!

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Doomhammer didn't agree with the war against the Draenei and never trusted Gul'dan. I'm not sure why he continued to fight the Humans after he learned of Gul'dan's machinations, destroyed the Shadow Council, and took over the Horde. Perhaps he succumbed to the madness and blood lust that surrounded him.
    or he was just doing what orcs tend to do with or without demon blood, kill and murder

    see: garrosh and all the orcs happy following him

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    or he was just doing what orcs tend to do with or without demon blood, kill and murder

    see: garrosh and all the orcs happy following him
    You obviously don't know orcs and you obviously don't understand the politics of the Horde and why the fourth war (which is essentially what this is) occurred in the first place.

  14. #754
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quel'Thalas
    Posts
    7,045
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    You obviously don't know orcs and you obviously don't understand the politics of the Horde and why the fourth war (which is essentially what this is) occurred in the first place.
    The Twilight's Hammer started fucking with shit in order to cause Chaos and neither side could swallow their pride enough to prevent it from escalating

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Doomhammer didn't agree with the war against the Draenei and never trusted Gul'dan. I'm not sure why he continued to fight the Humans after he learned of Gul'dan's machinations, destroyed the Shadow Council, and took over the Horde. Perhaps he succumbed to the madness and blood lust that surrounded him.
    Because Doomhammer aint no quitter. The War's been started, gotta see it to the end
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    Because Doomhammer aint no quitter. The War's been started, gotta see it to the end
    I can understand finishing the 1st War when he took over, but they had won when the Humans fled Stormwind. I don't see why he continued and started the 2nd War.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I can understand finishing the 1st War when he took over, but they had won when the Humans fled Stormwind. I don't see why he continued and started the 2nd War.
    I hate to be THAT guy who posts this, but he did it because Blizzard wanted a new warcraft game.

  17. #757
    Doomhammer didn't agree with the war against the Draenei and never trusted Gul'dan. I'm not sure why he continued to fight the Humans after he learned of Gul'dan's machinations, destroyed the Shadow Council, and took over the Horde. Perhaps he succumbed to the madness and blood lust that surrounded him.
    That or his homeworld was ravaged and destroyed and his people needed a new home. The second war was to ensure that the horde was the top dogs of the world. They simply wanted to conquer Azeroth and then settle their world. Unfortunately they lost.


    The orcs, while demon crazed, ravaged the peaceful draenei. Despite the draenei's attempt to make peace, the orcs kept killing them. The orcs are definitely the guilty party and now they are alligned with the Alliance. Old wounds such as slaughtering 80% of your population don't heal well. I don't see the Blood Elves forgiving the scourge...

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpe View Post
    That or his homeworld was ravaged and destroyed and his people needed a new home. The second war was to ensure that the horde was the top dogs of the world. They simply wanted to conquer Azeroth and then settle their world. Unfortunately they lost.

    The orcs, while demon crazed, ravaged the peaceful draenei. Despite the draenei's attempt to make peace, the orcs kept killing them. The orcs are definitely the guilty party and now they are alligned with the Alliance. Old wounds such as slaughtering 80% of your population don't heal well. I don't see the Blood Elves forgiving the scourge...
    There was nothing wrong with the Orc world until it was torn apart at the end of WC2X.

    The Orcs weren't demon crazed when they went to war with the Draenei. They were tricked into believing the Draenei were going to destroy them. The Draenei attempted to make peace was by speaking blasphemy against the Orcs' religion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 03:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Khronius View Post
    I hate to be THAT guy who posts this, but he did it because Blizzard wanted a new warcraft game.
    It probably made a lot more sense before more of the Orc/Legion backstory was retconned into the universe.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  19. #759
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quel'Thalas
    Posts
    7,045
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    There was nothing wrong with the Orc world until it was torn apart at the end of WC2X.

    The Orcs weren't demon crazed when they went to war with the Draenei. They were tricked into believing the Draenei were going to destroy them. The Draenei attempted to make peace was by speaking blasphemy against the Orcs' religion.
    IIRC the demon magic being used was beginning to corrupt the world already. Especially places like HFP which was decently livable before.

    And yeah, Velen has a really bad case of FootInMouthitis when it comes to the Naaru and other races
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  20. #760
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    9,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    If the Draenei had simply told the Orcs about Kil'jaeden then things would have been different. Lets also not forget the Velen sent most of his own people to be slaughtered in Shattrath to save his own ass. Hundreds of worlds have been fed to the Legion thanks to the Draenei. They are hardly innocent little lambs in all of this.
    There was probably not much room to talk to them while they were hacking down on them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •