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  1. #701
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    Read ToW.

    Read about disappointed Baine and Vol'Jin are at how many of their own people along with the orcs cheer for Garrosh after Theramore.

    Aside from the other leaders and the few that follow them, the bulk of the Horde follow Garrosh and agree with his intentions. It's only after upcoming events do the general Horde populace begin to want to distance themselves from Garrosh. And it's not because they think what he did was wrong...oh no...it's because they think that his methods with destroy them as well.

    And when the Alliance and Varian resort to dropping tactical nukes and using germ warfare against the Horde then we can talk about comparing just how evil both factions are.
    Try reading cycle of hatred, where an orc tells his story of how he was made into a slave by the humans after the first horde fell, how he was pissed and shat about by his masters while they treated him as nothing less then an animal.
    To an orc, this is worse then death. From an orcs perspective, it is worse to live in shame then die in honor.

    Now, try and tell me why you think its all about one side in this debate and how humans can't be accountable for anything against the horde?
    #boycottchina

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Try reading cycle of hatred, where an orc tells his story of how he was made into a slave by the humans after the first horde fell, how he was pissed and shat about by his masters while they treated him as nothing less then an animal.
    To an orc, this is worse then death. From an orcs perspective, it is worse to live in shame then die in honor.

    Now, try and tell me why you think its all about one side in this debate and how humans can't be accountable for anything against the horde?

    If by being held accountable you mean leaving them alive so we can this debate now instead of just holding mass executions for the amusement of everyone who lost family and friends when the orcs first invaded....

    Yeah I can hold them responsible for that. Poor orc, being so mistreated after he killed so many for the simply crime of trying to defend what's theirs...Boohoo...

    Oh boohoo.
    STRESS
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  3. #703
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    If by being held accountable you mean leaving them alive so we can this debate now instead of just holding mass executions for the amusement of everyone who lost family and friends when the orcs first invaded....

    Yeah I can hold them responsible for that. Poor orc, being so mistreated after he killed so many for the simply crime of trying to defend what's theirs...Boohoo...

    Oh boohoo.
    The Orcs were slaves to the Legion when they invaded.

    What a civilization does to it's defeated enemies speaks to how virtuous they truly are. The Alliance didn't have to enslave the Orcs after the war was over. They could have sent them back through the portal to their homeworld. They could have tried to rehabilitate them and treat them with compassion. They could have deported them from Human lands. Or they could have incarcerated them and NOT MADE THEM SLAVES.

  4. #704
    Herald of the Titans Kuthe's Avatar
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    Alliance sided by the Alliance, and have decided to stay to help the Alliance.
    If they went home chances are, it's filled with more corrupted orcs anyway.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  5. #705
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Orcs were slaves to the Legion when they invaded.

    What a civilization does to it's defeated enemies speaks to how virtuous they truly are. The Alliance didn't have to enslave the Orcs after the war was over. They could have sent them back through the portal to their homeworld. They could have tried to rehabilitate them and treat them with compassion. They could have deported them from Human lands. Or they could have incarcerated them and NOT MADE THEM SLAVES.
    Or, they could have killed them which the Orcs probably would have preferred
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    Or, they could have killed them which the Orcs probably would have preferred
    That too, I was trying to list more virtuous alternatives though.

    I suppose they could have turned them into gladiators to fight it out with each other. I'm sure the Alliance would have enjoyed watching Orcs fighting to the death for entertainment. This would still be slavery, but the Orcs would have probably liked it.

  7. #707
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That too, I was trying to list more virtuous alternatives though.

    I suppose they could have turned them into gladiators to fight it out with each other. I'm sure the Alliance would have enjoyed watching Orcs fighting to the death for entertainment. This would still be slavery, but the Orcs would have probably liked it.
    Hell Thrall's role as a gladiator (combined with lower bloodlust withdrawls due to not having the Blood in his system) is probably what prevented him from becoming lethargic like the rest
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  8. #708
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That too, I was trying to list more virtuous alternatives though.

    I suppose they could have turned them into gladiators to fight it out with each other. I'm sure the Alliance would have enjoyed watching Orcs fighting to the death for entertainment. This would still be slavery, but the Orcs would have probably liked it.
    instead of living like animals in pens with no spark of life in them. Though, you could say the spark was gone due to the fel taint and how it effected them back then. But yes, any orc worth his salt would have sooner died fighting then live as a lifeless slave. From an orc point of view, it was worse, but nobody here considers that and only thinks it from a human pov.
    #boycottchina

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Orcs were slaves to the Legion when they invaded.

    What a civilization does to it's defeated enemies speaks to how virtuous they truly are. The Alliance didn't have to enslave the Orcs after the war was over. They could have sent them back through the portal to their homeworld. They could have tried to rehabilitate them and treat them with compassion. They could have deported them from Human lands. Or they could have incarcerated them and NOT MADE THEM SLAVES.

    They couldn't send them back since the Portal was powered down and no one on Azeroth side knew how to activated it. And seeing as how know one knew about Kalimdor at that point there was no other place to put them.

    Also, the few that were mistreated does not reflect back on the Alliance as whole, since Terenas put the well being of the orcs before the stability of his own Alliance and sent his own son to make sure that the money put towards making sure the orcs had enough to survive was being spent accordingly. Given the situation that the orcs found themselves in they were damn well fortunate that someone like Terenas was in charge and not their now allies, the Blood Elves, or Greymane.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 12:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    instead of living like animals in pens with no spark of life in them. Though, you could say the spark was gone due to the fel taint and how it effected them back then. But yes, any orc worth his salt would have sooner died fighting then live as a lifeless slave. From an orc point of view, it was worse, but nobody here considers that and only thinks it from a human pov.

    And you're looking at it from the pov of an orc who thinks he should still have a say in his life after he lost the war against a people he had been trying to exterminate.

    Yes, let's give them weapons and armor to fight for our amusement, let's ignore the fact that by letting them keep that will to fight could come back and bite us in the ass it'd never happen...

    Oh yeah...that one orc...
    STRESS
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    some jerk who desperately needs it

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Orcs were slaves to the Legion when they invaded.

    What a civilization does to it's defeated enemies speaks to how virtuous they truly are. The Alliance didn't have to enslave the Orcs after the war was over. They could have sent them back through the portal to their homeworld. They could have tried to rehabilitate them and treat them with compassion. They could have deported them from Human lands. Or they could have incarcerated them and NOT MADE THEM SLAVES.
    The Dark Portal was closed. They couldn't send them back. There's not exactly a whole lot of land to send the orcs to either. It really came down to locking them up or slaughtering them like the scum they are.

  11. #711
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    They could have sent them back through the portal to their homeworld. They could have tried to rehabilitate them and treat them with compassion.
    Orcs are like Klingons. Compassion after defeat merely adds insult to injury. Sadly the humans in WoW are much like the humans in Starfleet, they have a very hard time accepting the Orcish/Klingon values.

    They either should have executed them all, or they should have sent them back through the portal. What is shown in CoT1 is wrong and it doesn't surprise me one bit that Orcs passionately hate the humans.

  12. #712
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    That's basically entire problem with the Orcs, as I've said many times already. They poor due to their own dumb, incapable of anything but fighting themselves. But in their minds it is ALWAYS due to "someone else".
    No it really, really is down to someone else. When the orcs freed themselves from the oppression of humans and tried to found there own lands in durotar, they were pursued by a fascist who could not leave well enough alone. they tried to make a home for themselves using trees from a forest near to them, but some pansy elves who had a boner for trees wouldn't let them and tried to kill them.

    At every turn the orcs trying to get a footing somewhere, the alliance races has always been there to mess it up, so enough is enough.
    #boycottchina

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    No it really, really is down to someone else. When the orcs freed themselves from the oppression of humans and tried to found there own lands in durotar, they were pursued by a fascist who could not leave well enough alone. they tried to make a home for themselves using trees from a forest near to them, but some pansy elves who had a boner for trees wouldn't let them and tried to kill them.

    At every turn the orcs trying to get a footing somewhere, the alliance races has always been there to mess it up, so enough is enough.
    yeah it's not like those trees were sacred and in lands already owned by the night elves that the orcs invaded right? And why would anyone pursue the horde and not want them to "Get a foothold" somewhere when they've already started two wars at that time and caused countless deaths while those that weren't in camps were meanwhile attacking defenseless villages and sacrificing the people in them to demons. Yeah i dont see any motivation for wanting to be rid of the horde altogether.

    Alliance should've executed them ALL instead of putting them in camps. World would be a much better place today. Even at the battle of mount hyjal, everyone would've been better off without orcs being there because Cenarius would've been there and more than mad up for anything the orcs did. Orcs are garbage. Savage, mindless race that tries to take whatever they want by force, they need to be wiped out because you can't live with something like that. You can't reason with or make peace with a race of people who think its their right to take whatever they want and kill anyone who says otherwise. Thrall was the only decent one of them and that was because he was raised by humans.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  14. #714
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    yeah it's not like those trees were sacred and in lands already owned by the night elves that the orcs invaded right? And why would anyone pursue the horde and not want them to "Get a foothold" somewhere when they've already started two wars at that time and caused countless deaths while those that weren't in camps were meanwhile attacking defenseless villages and sacrificing the people in them to demons. Yeah i dont see any motivation for wanting to be rid of the horde altogether..
    And did the Kaldorei tell the Orcs they were desecrating their forest? No. They just started killing them.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  15. #715
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    yeah it's not like those trees were sacred and in lands already owned by the night elves that the orcs invaded right?
    But the Orcs didn't know that at this time.

    Savage, mindless race that tries to take whatever they want by force, they need to be wiped out because you can't live with something like that. You can't reason with or make peace with a race of people who think its their right to take whatever they want and kill anyone who says otherwise.
    Now you're just unfair. The Mag'har Orcs may be relatively primitive compared to the Draenei, but they were peaceful.
    Also Thrall is an excellent example, that with proper education, Orcs can be quite civilized and agreeable.

    Yeah the average Grunt doesn't have much brains. That's because they are raised into total and unquestioning obedience to the Warchief.

    I think Orcs have potential to become much more than what they are now, IF they get that chance.

  16. #716
    The Mag'har Orcs may be relatively primitive compared to the Draenei, but they were peaceful.
    Not really. There's a quest in Hellfire where a draenei goes to talk to the Mag'har and they tell him not to return or they'd kill him. Though that might be as peaceful as orcs get.

  17. #717
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Not really. There's a quest in Hellfire where a draenei goes to talk to the Mag'har and they tell him not to return or they'd kill him. Though that might be as peaceful as orcs get.
    1) We don't know where in the timeline that conversation takes place
    2) Relations between Draenei and Orcs were relatively cool. Basically both just took care of their own stuff and didn't have that much exchange.

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Alliance should've executed them ALL instead of putting them in camps. World would be a much better place today. Even at the battle of mount hyjal, everyone would've been better off without orcs being there because Cenarius would've been there and more than mad up for anything the orcs did. Orcs are garbage. Savage, mindless race that tries to take whatever they want by force, they need to be wiped out because you can't live with something like that. You can't reason with or make peace with a race of people who think its their right to take whatever they want and kill anyone who says otherwise. Thrall was the only decent one of them and that was because he was raised by humans.
    Good luck fighting the Legion without the Orcs. I hope you like oblivion.

  19. #719
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Good luck fighting the Legion without the Orcs. I hope you like oblivion.
    Good luck fighting the Legion with the Orcs. I hope you like oblivion.

    Seriously. You don't expect us to be able to defeat an army as vast as the burning legion using conventional warfare, do you? oO
    We wouldn't even stand a glimmer of a chance in a frontal assault of Argus. They could drown us in Numbers a million times over.

  20. #720
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Good luck fighting the Legion with the Orcs. I hope you like oblivion.

    Seriously. You don't expect us to be able to defeat an army as vast as the burning legion using conventional warfare, do you? oO
    We wouldn't even stand a glimmer of a chance in a frontal assault of Argus. They could drown us in Numbers a million times over.
    It has been prophesied that an Army of the Light would defeat the Legion. It includes Orcs.

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