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  1. #221
    This is great wimp. I'll add it to the OP when I find a computer.
    Guild Leader of Eye of the Tigger on EU-Draenor

  2. #222
    For the T15 4p, what is the...proper use I guess for it? I'm assuming we just mash and clip envenom or something (assuming rupture is up) when we max out on CP? I get for like Combat it's just spammy through eviscerates (at least that's what I'd assume from what bit I remember of combat last expansion), but mut generally doesn't like clipping does it?

  3. #223
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    For the T15 4p, what is the...proper use I guess for it? I'm assuming we just mash and clip envenom or something (assuming rupture is up) when we max out on CP? I get for like Combat it's just spammy through eviscerates (at least that's what I'd assume from what bit I remember of combat last expansion), but mut generally doesn't like clipping does it?
    Clipping is fine so long as you know you'll still have 5 cps again before Shadow Blades fades.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-05-29 at 10:50 AM.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  4. #224
    A friendly inquiry...Why not pop Vendetta prior to initial stealthed mute/ambush? It doesn't break stealth and it's benefit applies to the first few hits then. Also, I've tended to use Ambush, as CnD talent allows to do so from ranged, and one can use the vanish ability to do the same during boss movement to save on run time (depending on boss mechanics and group's approach), and be the energy saver, but if the difference b/w that an Mute is vast, I certainly stand down and will change myself. Other cd's (Shadow Blades/Synapse Springs) use after initial SnD is going of course, as Shadow Blades benefits more from the faster standard melee. Vendetta's time can take the few seconds before Shadow Blades is active since it's a longer duration anyway. Just a friendly inquiry here, my guild isn't raiding this xpac, so I'm a great deal more casual than I had been, but when I pug I like to serve the team that's invited me well.

    Also, is there a good addon for showing the Anticipation CP's along with the initial 5?

    Can't post a link yet, as I'm new to the forum, but it's Lórienawk on US-Bloodhoof.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Lori1978; 2013-05-29 at 06:21 PM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Lori1978 View Post
    A friendly inquiry...Why not pop Vendetta prior to initial stealthed mute/ambush? It doesn't break stealth and it's benefit applies to the first few hits then. Also, I've tended to use Ambush, as CnD talent allows to do so from ranged, and one can use the vanish ability to do the same during boss movement to save on run time (depending on boss mechanics and group's approach), and be the energy saver, but if the difference b/w that an Mute is vast, I certainly stand down and will change myself. Other cd's (Shadow Blades/Synapse Springs) use after initial SnD is going of course, as Shadow Blades benefits more from the faster standard melee. Vendetta's time can take the few seconds before Shadow Blades is active since it's a longer duration anyway. Just a friendly inquiry here, my guild isn't raiding this xpac, so I'm a great deal more casual than I had been, but when I pug I like to serve the team that's invited me well.

    Also, is there a good addon for showing the Anticipation CP's along with the initial 5?

    Can't post a link yet, as I'm new to the forum, but it's Lórienawk on US-Bloodhoof.

    Cheers
    Vendetta is on the GCD, so you're delaying your opener and you lose a GCD of Vendetta's effect. Your damage isn't fully going for a few GCDs anyways, so another few globals of Vendetta have a reduced effectiveness.

    The difference between Ambush and Mut is dependent on gear and usually pretty small (few hundred DPS over a fight). At ToT gear levels, Ambush seems to be almost always better. Also, I wouldn't use CnD. ShS is the same thing and it doesn't require Stealth, so you can use it far more often and use Vanish for DPS rather than mobility.

    An additional reason for using SB after SnD is the extra CPs on SnD give you zero benefit, so using SB when the extra CPs will be useful (Rupt/Env) is a relative gain.

    I use IceHUD for my Anticipation tracking, but I wouldn't do that unless you want to use it for your unit frames too. Most people use WeakAuras or an all-in-one rogue tracker (I think Slice Admiral is one?). You can find really good WA strings all over the place.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    An additional reason for using SB after SnD is the extra CPs on SnD give you zero benefit, so using SB when the extra CPs will be useful (Rupt/Env) is a relative gain.
    Shadow Blades doesn't affect SnD, Rupture or Evis.

    Delaying Shadow Blades is probably more painful than "burning" CPs on a SnD refresh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I use IceHUD for my Anticipation tracking, but I wouldn't do that unless you want to use it for your unit frames too. Most people use WeakAuras or an all-in-one rogue tracker (I think Slice Admiral is one?). You can find really good WA strings all over the place.
    Class Timers works well for tracking Anticipation.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Shadow Blades doesn't affect SnD, Rupture or Evis.

    Delaying Shadow Blades is probably more painful than "burning" CPs on a SnD refresh.
    SB does affect all your finishers because it increases your CP generation and thus your finisher frequency. The bonus CPs do essentially nothing for your SnD though because it will be refreshed on your next Env anyways, meaning all you really need is 1 CP for SnD and anything over that is wasted. You'll always end up putting it up with 2-3 CPs, but reducing the waste is a gain.

    As Lori pointed out, SB also benefits from the increased attack speed from SnD (more swings during SB means more swings that were magic damage and gained all the benefits that come with that).

    I don't see why delaying SB until the optimal time is "painful".

    I also noticed you said Evis. You know this is an Assassination thread, right? Not that similar rules don't apply for Combat, but I'm just making sure we're talking about the same thing.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2013-05-29 at 07:19 PM.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    SB does affect all your finishers because it increases your CP generation and thus your finisher frequency.
    Talking about using SnD with respect to during SB confused me. Didn't realize we were talking about openers.

    From my limited experience, SB should only be used with a near full energy bar and no CPs to maximize number of Mut/Dispatches used.

    I think the correct opener is:

    Ambush > Rupture > Mut > SnD > wait for ~100 Energy > Vendetta > SB + CDs > hardcore button mashing

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Talking about using SnD with respect to during SB confused me. Didn't realize we were talking about openers.
    SnD is only used in the opener as Assassination.

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    From my limited experience, SB should only be used with a near full energy bar and no CPs to maximize number of Mut/Dispatches used.
    Pretty much correct, but don't pool just for SB. Use SB (after the opener SB) when you're naturally pooling in your rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    I think the correct opener is:

    Ambush > Rupture > Mut > SnD > wait for ~100 Energy > Vendetta > SB + CDs > hardcore button mashing
    You should read the OP, man.

    Amb/Mut > SnD > Shadow Blades > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Standard Rotation is the optimal opener.

  10. #230
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori1978 View Post
    A friendly inquiry...Why not pop Vendetta prior to initial stealthed mute/ambush?
    You get better results from using it with your opening SnD and Rupture running; more attacks per Vendetta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    You should read the OP, man.

    Amb/Mut > SnD > Shadow Blades > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Standard Rotation is the optimal opener.
    Possibly outdated info, it was true during last tier, but the last tests I ran showed Mut > SnD > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Shadow Blades (at end of GCD )> Standard Rotation to be ahead.

    To note, I never tested if Ambush still beats Mutilate, the difference would be negligible, but I believe that Mutilate would be ahead with the buffs to Dispatch.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-05-30 at 12:16 AM.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  11. #231
    Does anyone know if it is worth saving SB at opener when you have a Renataki proc until it is 12~ secs left on the proc for maximal effect during Renatakis or should you still use it as normal?

  12. #232
    What is the optimal way to use Shadow Blades with t15 4pc? I'm trying to get a full Rupture up and go into it with less than 50 energy, and use as many Mutilates/Dispatchs without wasting combo points, capping energy, or overlapping Envenom - are there any situations where you should ignore these principles? I tend to sit very close to capping during Blades and sometimes have to overlap Envenom to avoid capping, I wonder if that is normal and if there are any other considerations I'm unaware of.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    What is the optimal way to use Shadow Blades with t15 4pc? I'm trying to get a full Rupture up and go into it with less than 50 energy, and use as many Mutilates/Dispatchs without wasting combo points, capping energy, or overlapping Envenom - are there any situations where you should ignore these principles? I tend to sit very close to capping during Blades and sometimes have to overlap Envenom to avoid capping, I wonder if that is normal and if there are any other considerations I'm unaware of.
    If you have 10 CP on the target (assuming anticipation as 90 talent) and you are about to cap on energy its ok to clip your envenom and then continue building more CPs.

    This happens alot during openers involving you using all cds.
    Last edited by Stabbylabby; 2013-06-10 at 11:00 AM.

  14. #234
    Can someone explain to me in detail what envenom clipping is. Up until recent I have realized that I haven't been doing this correctly. Can someone please explain what this means and what I should not be doing in my rotation.

  15. #235
    Clipping is the concept of replacing a buff or debuff before the previous one has finished its duration. What's more. abilities like SnD and Envenom (and a lot others) have internal 'tick' intervals, in the same way dots do, and if you clip them within the last tick, that tick transfers to the refreshed duration. Envenom ticks every 1 sec, so when it has <1sec left of its duration, clipping it would simply transfer that <1sec to the next Envenom's duration, thereby allowing you to maximize your Envenom uptime.

    Also note that the tick interval varies - for instance, SnD ticks every 2 sec.
    Guild Leader of Eye of the Tigger on EU-Draenor

  16. #236
    can we speak in private? my email is Tylerj1209 at gmail

  17. #237
    High Overlord lydude's Avatar
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    So I just leveled my rogue to 90 and I have some questions. No offense to whoever wrote this "guide" but it's really lacking compared to some of the other guides in other classes forums.

    What is Assassination's main stat besides Agility, Haste or Mastery?

    Are there any other web-sites with guides (like Howtopriest) that are dedicated to Rogues?

    Thanks in advance

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by lydude View Post
    So I just leveled my rogue to 90 and I have some questions. No offense to whoever wrote this "guide" but it's really lacking compared to some of the other guides in other classes forums.

    What is Assassination's main stat besides Agility, Haste or Mastery?

    Are there any other web-sites with guides (like Howtopriest) that are dedicated to Rogues?

    Thanks in advance
    This isn't a guide. This is more of an index of questions that are one or more levels deeper than Assassination's basics and their answers, as well as a forum to propose and solve new questions of a similar depth.

    If you're looking for a guide, visit Icy-Veins. It's accurate for the most part. Coldkil's guide (linked in a sticky) is also pretty good. All the rogue-only websites have died, but a lot of us hang out here.

    For any gearing questions, use ShadowCraft.

  19. #239
    High Overlord lydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    This isn't a guide. This is more of an index of questions that are one or more levels deeper than Assassination's basics and their answers, as well as a forum to propose and solve new questions of a similar depth.

    If you're looking for a guide, visit Icy-Veins. It's accurate for the most part. Coldkil's guide (linked in a sticky) is also pretty good. All the rogue-only websites have died, but a lot of us hang out here.

    For any gearing questions, use ShadowCraft.
    Thank you

  20. #240
    I have a problem with ShadowCraft and Ask Mr.Robot.
    I switched to Juju 522/Renataki 522 from valor trinket and juju, just when I did that shadowcraft instantely showed me that I should reforge for haste instead of mastery. From 106% of mastery on raids I dropped down to around 86%. And tbh I felt my dps is lower than it should be...
    Should I listen to shadowcraft and reforge to haste? Or should I listen to mrrobot and stay on mastery reforge?

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