Page 16 of 20 FirstFirst ...
6
14
15
16
17
18
... LastLast
  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Is it? Rupture is worth getting another 2+ FoK out.
    In a standard AE situation, sure. During SB where resources are arbitrary and it's all about DPS I'd much rather use every GCD on FoK/CT and Envenom. Realistically you always have Rupture running on the boss, so the debate is about whether to trade a FoK for a Rupture on secondary targets.

    In my experience, when you exceed 3 targets, it is.
    Guild Leader of Eye of the Tigger on EU-Draenor

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    In a standard AE situation, sure. During SB where resources are arbitrary and it's all about DPS I'd much rather use every GCD on FoK/CT and Envenom. Realistically you always have Rupture running on the boss, so the debate is about whether to trade a FoK for a Rupture on secondary targets.

    In my experience, when you exceed 3 targets, it is.
    Would you bother maintaining the AoE damage increase of CT rather than getting another envenom out, under a SB-with-multiple-targets-but-a-main-target situation?

  3. #303
    That's what I'm doing. Granted adds rarely live that long so either approach has flaws.

    Maybe we can put this to the test in SoO...
    Guild Leader of Eye of the Tigger on EU-Draenor

  4. #304
    High Overlord dubwise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    100
    In my experience CT sucks if it doesn't tic all the way out

  5. #305
    Honestly for myself I only CT when :

    A) 5+ Targets with SB, Extra cp's, 2 ruptures out, envenom buff active.
    B) 10-15+ Targets (bat kiting on tort).

    Even in an ideal situation, where i am able to attain a top 15 parse : H Tortos it was only 1.5% of my damage. On that fight i am able to sit on tort, i always saved up some energy / cps for the bats on passby and would enenom and fok x 3 before returning to normal rotation. When the bats were at 2-3 stacks worth i would throw in a ct or I would hold an SB for a bat spawn + kiteby and go aoe crazy for 3-5 seconds.

    I would typically rather get envenom + fok off vrs CT in almost any situation. I would love to see that math that shows at what point CT wins out over refreshing an envenom and or a second rupture.

  6. #306
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    132
    There is a answer in the first page about rolling Rupture on multiple targets to do more single dps and answer was no. My question is if the new redirect glyph is taken into account ? It seems to me if second target is close to you, it is a dps gain to roll 2 ruptures. With that being said I don't have any proof of that, it just "seems" that way
    Pugs are like Master Card---- Priceless.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Khas View Post
    There is a answer in the first page about rolling Rupture on multiple targets to do more single dps and answer was no. My question is if the new redirect glyph is taken into account ? It seems to me if second target is close to you, it is a dps gain to roll 2 ruptures. With that being said I don't have any proof of that, it just "seems" that way
    In a perfect play situation, rupturing a second target is DPS neutral for the first target (+66 DPS for a 160k assassination rogue iirc? We mathed it out way back; but I also think this was with the T15 2p). Making any mistakes at all makes it a loss on the main target.

    It's damage positive on the second target, though! There aren't many adds in SoO you're not killing, so multi-rup away.

  8. #308
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    132
    I skipped a patch and didn't research a lot, meaning I didn't read this forum So, sorry if this was answered before. I haven't set foot in SoO yet but I did some ToT lfr to see how my rogue feels like and it seemed my energy regen was smoother with venomous wounds energy procs. But if you say that all this energy gives only 66 dps I will stop doing that.
    Pugs are like Master Card---- Priceless.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Khas View Post
    I skipped a patch and didn't research a lot, meaning I didn't read this forum So, sorry if this was answered before. I haven't set foot in SoO yet but I did some ToT lfr to see how my rogue feels like and it seemed my energy regen was smoother with venomous wounds energy procs. But if you say that all this energy gives only 66 dps I will stop doing that.
    "All this energy" costs auto-attacks and 5 CP on a second target, which is the only reason it's not more damage-positive. If you're killing the second target (i.e. not Megaera), it's absolutely a good thing to do.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    "All this energy" costs auto-attacks and 5 CP on a second target, which is the only reason it's not more damage-positive. If you're killing the second target (i.e. not Megaera), it's absolutely a good thing to do.
    Keep in mind you most likely don't want to use 5 combopoints but rather 2 because Deadly Poison lasts 12 seconds. With the new redirect glyph you could be transfering one rupture every 12seconds. Previously done math had a 5 combopoints rupture rolling on the secondary target and the rogue switching to autoattack and refresh deadly poison.
    Last edited by Fluorescent0; 2013-09-15 at 02:02 PM.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  11. #311
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Keep in mind you most likely don't want to use 5 combopoints but rather 2 because Deadly Poison lasts 12 seconds. With the new redirect glyph you could be transfering one rupture every 12seconds. Previously done math had a 5 combopoints rupture rolling on the secondary target and the rogue switching to autoattack and refresh deadly poison.
    And while you do all that, you would gain only 66 dps ?
    Pugs are like Master Card---- Priceless.

  12. #312
    This might be a silly question, but watched a few assa pov videos and started wondering...what's the correct way to handle shadowblades as assassination? I mean let's say I'm sitting at 10 anticipation charges, rupture is up, trinkets are also up etc (e.g. start of the fight) and have reasonable energy left. Is it best to try and squeeze as many envenoms into sb time while clipping envenom buff. Or just "keep cool", let the buff run and energy regen, then renew it without trying to clip it or clip it with minimal time remaining?

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    This might be a silly question, but watched a few assa pov videos and started wondering...what's the correct way to handle shadowblades as assassination? I mean let's say I'm sitting at 10 anticipation charges, rupture is up, trinkets are also up etc (e.g. start of the fight) and have reasonable energy left. Is it best to try and squeeze as many envenoms into sb time while clipping envenom buff. Or just "keep cool", let the buff run and energy regen, then renew it without trying to clip it or clip it with minimal time remaining?

    In the past (pre 5.4) you would ideally want to open up, get snd rupture up, lust + trinkets + vendetta + sb then you would be doing back to back mutilates and envenoms as to not waste any cps or energy. These may be the videos you are watching.


    Post 5.4 with t15 4 pc we were getting a fraction of the energy reduction as before, this resulted in almost half the damage as i could no longer spam envenoms.


    Today : With 2 pc t16 i am back to spamming envenoms during an oppening lust. The other thing about the 2pc so far from my experience is that depending on crits i sometimes get "mini" burn phases with lucky sf procs.

    How i handle openner right now - 5 seconds on timer - ToT - 1 second pot - stealth - mutilate (3 cps) - Mutilate (5 cps + disptach maybe) - Rupture - Dispatch - SnD - (7 seconds on trinkets or so) Pop vendetta + SB - Mutilate - Envenom @ 5 cps - Mutilate up to 7-8 cps and envenom - refresh Rupture sub 1 second.

    I Continue this as long as I can, the length of my burn right now is about the same as sbs but it does extened past them given crit procs and torrent energy, vanish usage ect. I try to back to back envenoms until i know i will let my envenom buff fall before refreshing due to energy / cps gen.

    I am currently getting a 590k + burn on thok blust.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by xquizite View Post
    How i handle openner right now - 5 seconds on timer - ToT - 1 second pot - stealth - mutilate (3 cps) - Mutilate (5 cps + disptach maybe) - Rupture - Dispatch - SnD - (7 seconds on trinkets or so) Pop vendetta + SB - Mutilate - Envenom @ 5 cps - Mutilate up to 7-8 cps and envenom - refresh Rupture sub 1 second.
    That's a pretty terrible opener. You want to get a low CP SnD and low CP Rupture up right away. E.g. something like (stealth) mutilate -> SnD -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta if not capped. Make use of any dispatch procs, of course.

  15. #315
    Depending on procs i found it more burstish perpot/stealth~1sec on pull timer>muti>rupture>dispatch/muti>snd>vendeta/sb/berserking(macroed)>standard rotation don't have logs from thok last night tho. But from logs from malkorok pulls with lust on start was peaking around 800k average 50k +/- and around 600k w/o lust on start.
    Not the best since this patch i have pretty huge fps drops/lag spikes during pulls with lust tho.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    That's a pretty terrible opener. You want to get a low CP SnD and low CP Rupture up right away. E.g. something like (stealth) mutilate -> SnD -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta if not capped. Make use of any dispatch procs, of course.
    Just to be clear in your example over mine you get snd up 1 gcd faster then i get rupture up and get rupture up at the same point i get snd.

    My typical openner is literally Mut - Mut - Rupture - Snd (dispatch if bad crit procs). 4-5 gcds for a full rupture and 1 cp snd. Yours has 4 gcds for a 1-2 point rupture and 2 seconds more of snd.

    But i do agree you can likely put rupture up with 2-3 cps and save a global, i dont think i would do snd first as i would rather start my energy regen asap. I find good mileage with my opener so i wouldn't call it horrible, show me some logs that would make my jaw drop and i will agree that yours is better.
    Last edited by xquizite; 2013-09-17 at 02:06 PM.

  17. #317
    Just posting to say my opener is also Mutx2->Rupture. If you get 1 seal fate proc and 1 dispatch proc or 2 seal fate procs you get that glorious one point SnD. I know it's not the recommended opener but when it works it feels much smoother to me. You always get the energy refund on rupture and don't have to worry about refreshing it for awhile. Now that I think about it, I started using this sequence in t14 when longer low-cp ruptures due to t15 set bonus wasn't a thing. Maybe that has something to do with it.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by xquizite View Post
    I find good mileage with my opener so i wouldn't call it horrible, show me some logs that would make my jaw drop and i will agree that yours is better.
    I think you like your opener more because the energy return is noticeable dps feedback; you can SEE it helping you faster. A person can't really properly gauge auto attacks and the procs that come off them in real time, it's just kind of numbers spam. That being said, 40% faster auto attacks is *HUGE*, especially considering how much of our damage is poison procs, the vast majority of which is from ... you guessed it! Auto attacks. SND is king. It is MUCH more important than rupture. The single most incorrect thing you can do with your opener is to NOT make SND your second GCD. Ambush vs Mut for first? Meh. 2-3 or 4-5 pt rupture? Meh. SND ASAP.
    Last edited by zurm; 2013-09-17 at 07:14 PM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by zurm View Post
    I think you like your opener more because the energy return is noticeable dps feedback; you can SEE it helping you faster. A person can't really properly gauge auto attacks and the procs that come off them in real time, it's just kind of numbers spam. That being said, 40% faster auto attacks is *HUGE*, especially considering how much of our damage is poison procs, the vast majority of which is from ... you guessed it! Auto attacks. SND is king. It is MUCH more important than rupture. The single most incorrect thing you can do with your opener is to NOT make SND your second GCD. Ambush vs Mut for first? Meh. 2-3 or 4-5 pt rupture? Meh. SND ASAP.
    Agreed, maximizing passive damage>energy regen which is why Mastery>Haste in our stat priority. So SND>Rupture in our opening sequence.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by zurm View Post
    I think you like your opener more because the energy return is noticeable dps feedback; you can SEE it helping you faster. A person can't really properly gauge auto attacks and the procs that come off them in real time, it's just kind of numbers spam. That being said, 40% faster auto attacks is *HUGE*, especially considering how much of our damage is poison procs, the vast majority of which is from ... you guessed it! Auto attacks. SND is king. It is MUCH more important than rupture. The single most incorrect thing you can do with your opener is to NOT make SND your second GCD. Ambush vs Mut for first? Meh. 2-3 or 4-5 pt rupture? Meh. SND ASAP.

    You don't need to preach the importance of maintaining a 40% attack speed buff when talking about priority in an openner and 1-2 gcds of downtime. This argument would have to be mathed out considering that an early rupture over an early snd would result in a quicker envenom which is where our damage really starts to kick in.

    I would potentially concede a second mut in favor of an earlier snd / rupture depending on priority. I know there has been math put towards 1-2-3 seconds of snd / rupture downtime and 3-4-5 cp dmg lost on ruptures. I dont think i've seen updated information on this math for current content (not even 5.3).

    I will forgo some 5 pt ruptures on pull tonight as the extra gcd may allow me to get envenom up 1 second sooner, as long as the refresh of rupture doesn't come at a bad time this minor change should yield slightly higher openning burst.

    My opener is something that i've used for too long which was once mathed out and since i have been able to parse / rank / and pull competitive dps i never really looked into altering it. We are likely having a hissy fit over something like 10-15 dps over the course of an 8 min fight. Effectively what i would recommend is try a different priority, see if it makes a difference in feel and ability to ease into a rotation and go from there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •