Page 1 of 20
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Assassination: The nitty gritty

    What started as an inquiry about some of the more subtle aspects of Assassination is slowly turning into a resource for advanced tips and tricks. To let everyone utilize this more efficiently I've decided to turn the thread into a Q&A and use the most commonly agreed upon inputs as answers. A word of warning though: many of the answers are based on preference and experience, and haven't been confirmed mathematically. I therefore encourage you to take them with a grain of salt and sip through the replies to reach Deep Insight.

    Rotations & Priorities

    Q: What's the best opener as Assassination in 5.2?
    A: Mut > SnD > Shadow Blades > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Standard Rotation. [1,2]

    Q: What rotation should I be using on multiple mobs?
    A: 2-3 targets: 2x Muti > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on all targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.
    A: 5+ targets: 2x FoK > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on 3 targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.

    Q: I've got the standard rotation down, but what about all those special situations?
    A: Refresh Rupture at any CP if it has <2 sec left.
    A: Envenom at any CP if Slice and Dice has <2sec left.
    A: If Rupture has 3-6 sec remaining and 5 CP for Envenom, wait for the 2 sec mark and refresh Rupture before continuing your rotation.
    A: If at 1-4 CP, use Blindside proc right away. If at 5+ CP and no Envenom up, Envenom then Blindside.


    Resource Management

    Q: Envenom clipping?
    A: Only clip if you're at 7 CPs (presuming Anticipation) or 85+ energy.
    A: Up to 1 sec of Envenom carries over to the next Envenom, so you can safely clip within this time frame. E.g. if you clip with 0.9 sec left, your next full Envenom will last 6.9 sec, and it won't be a DPS loss.
    [1,2]

    Q: Energy pooling - yes/no/when?
    A: If your previous Envenom has not dropped wait until it does or until your energy is in danger of capping before casting the next one. [1]
    A: Go into Shadow Blades/Vendetta with high (but uncapped) energy. [1]
    A: Try to have enough energy that you will be able to cast two Mutilates during the buff before casting Envenom. [1]

    Q: Is it a single target DPS increase to multi-Rupture?
    A: In short: no. On top of the facing requirements and the need to maintain DP on the secondary target for Venomous Wounds to proc, it's effectively energy neutral. The only time you want to multi-Rupture on single target fights is to get more on-demand burst. [1]

    Spells & Cooldowns

    Q: Do you hold back Vendetta to align it with Shadow Blades?
    A: Only hold back if you're sure you won't be able to use another Vendetta, e.g. with <=2min of combat left on the encounter.

    Q: Why is no one using Garrote?
    A: Garrote and Rupture both apply Venomous Wounds, but they don't stack, and Rupture ticks every 2 seconds compared to Garrote's 3 seconds, giving you less energy over time. Mutilate and Ambush - the two alternative stealth openers - both add two combo points, and hit harder. [1]

    Q: Using Vanish on cooldown or aligning with CDs?
    A: The damage boost of Vanish (presuming Shadow Focus) is around 1% - the bailout might be better, depending on the situation.

    Q: To what extent are you timing abilities with procs (e.g. Dancing Steel and trinkets)?
    A: If ICD on multiple procs is about to expire, hold back on the big cooldowns. Otherwise don't bother.

    Mechanics & Stats

    Q: Is item X or set bonus Y and upgrade over Z?
    A: The answer is that it's individual. For any and all questions regarding item choices, gems, enchants and item upgrades, consult with the Holy Grail of rogue itemization: the Shadowcraft.

    Q: How are DoTs affected by cooldowns and procs?
    A: When you cast a spell like Rupture, it will take a snapshot of your current game state, e.g. trinket procs and cooldowns, and use that for every tick of the spell - even after those procs have faded. However, your target's buffs and debuffs interact dynamically with this - so when you cast Vendetta halfway through a Rupture, it will increase the damage of that spell as long as Vendetta is active.

    Q: To expertise cap or not?
    A: There seems to be some disagreements here, but the bottom line is this: going for 2.5% Expertise is a theoretical DPS increase, but puts your yellow attacks at risk of being dodged which can result in miss-managing cooldowns and abilities. If the latter becomes too much of a nuisance, reforge to 7.5% Expertise.

    Q: Haste or mastery!?
    A: The general rule of thumb is this: with 1 RPPM trinket, mastery is slightly better; with 2 RPPM trinkets, haste is slightly better; with 2 RPPM trinkets and Legendary Meta gem, haste pulls considerably ahead. Add to this that movement intensive fights favor mastery, and mastery tends to give more consistent output. As always, mileage may vary, so consult with Shadowcraft to be sure.
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2013-07-04 at 10:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    Having recently acquired heroic daggers I'm now pretty much deadlocked to play assassination, and have been trying to catch up with the latest and greatest on theorycrafting. From a personal point of view I completely despise the spec and that fact that my top 3 spells are passives, but it's often the better option, so I'll soldier on.

    I seem to have gotten the basics down (10min / 41M on raid dummy gave 96,8% of theoretical max), but in yesterday's raid I just didn't get the numbers I wanted (log), and I presume it's the more subtle details I'm missing. I've been searching for a tips and tricks thread, but haven't found one so instead I'll post some questions here and would like to hear about your own findings playing this spec.

    1. Envenom clipping during burst phases - what's your preference?
    2. Do you occasionally hold back Vendetta to align with SB (rather than just aligning every 6th minute)?
    3. At what CP amount do you hold back Blindside to get the procs during Envenom (presuming anticipation)?
    4. Using Vanish on cooldown or aligning with CDs?
    5. To what extent are you timing abilities with procs (e.g. Dancing Steel and trinkets)?
    6. At what point do you swap from Envenom/SnD/Rupture to FoK/CT, and when do you overlap (i.e. FoK/CT with Ruptures)?
    7. What addon/tools do you use to track and do multi-rupturing?
    1. I favor never clipping Envenom unless I absolutely have to, even during burst phases. If I'm sitting at 10cp and envenom has a second or so left then sure, I'll clip it. Other than that I'll just pool energy a little more if I can.
    2. Waiting a minute for SB to come off CD to line it up seems like a waste to me. Sure you might have the potential for higher damage during the combo but what about the lost uptime of vendetta(4 in a 7 min fight compared to waiting for a minute after the first combo netting you only 3)? The only time I hold back on using it on CD is if one/both of my trinkets ICD is coming to an end within 10-15 seconds. Other than that I use it on CD every time.
    3.(Assuming I'm understanding the question) If I'm at 3+ CP I'll hold off on using my blindside proc, hit a mut to get 5 cp and use blindside during envenom. If it's going into a phase transition/movement I'll envenom around 60 energy instead of 80 so I can get a mut+blindside in instead of 2 muts+blindside, but that's only if I know I wont have time to do the latter. I also only envenom at 5cp. I know some people favor 4cp envenoms with blindside procs but I like to keep it consistent at 5cp.
    4. Vanish during SBs. The synergy is too good. Most fights I run shadowstep but the few I did run prep I used it right after vanish went on CD and aligned the next vanish with SB.
    5. I try to time Vendetta and SB with procs only if they are coming off CD within 15 seconds. Anything more than that and the uptime lost feels too great imo.
    6. 2-3 targets I get my rupture, snd up on primary target and just tab, mut, mut, rupture on secondary target while keeping it up during the fight if it doesn't require a lot of movement to do so. 4 is kind of iffy, I'm not really set on how I handle it but I usually tab rupture those too. 5+ I FoK, FoK, Rupture, tab, repeat. CT is pretty shitty damage so I avoid it pretty much at all times. With 5+ targets by the time I finish rupturing the last target, rupture on the first target is about to drop if not already down.
    7. Tidy Plates.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-01-14 at 10:24 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  3. #3
    1) Never ever clip your Envenom, unless you have 10 CPs and 90+ energy
    2) I don't -- unless I'm 100% sure I'll have Bloodlust exactly when SB is up again, or am 100% sure I'll not get another Vendetta again
    3) When I have 4 CPs and a Blindside proc, I usually Envenom then use the proc. I don't have any backing if it's better than using the proc and doing a 5-CP Envenom. It just feels better, and allows to build CPs back faster for more Envenom uptime.
    4) On CD, plus I always have it for Vendetta.
    5) I don't -- but my guild's progress doesn't require me to, so that's OK. If you feel like you want to go the extra mile, or if you're going for the realm first or similar, you maybe should.
    6) CT is a no-go in Assassination. FoK is best used from 5+ targets, some say even 7+. Try to keep Rupture ticking on 2 to 3 targets. If you can, then try to weave in some Envenom and FoK: insane AoE damage.
    7) I don't -- tho I've used Ellipsis and it's working great. Rupture has a very short duration imo, you won't be able to keep more than 3 up at the same time unless specific conditions arise (BL, haste trinket I suppose). If you have Windlord in mind, it's rather efficient to just tab switch between targets and place Rupture up. Sometimes you'll target an already-debuffed enemy, but nothing that a quick tab can't solve again
    Interested in light analysis, ramblings and other
    shenanigans about rogues? Check Badstabbers.

  4. #4
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In a field, somewhere
    Posts
    6,150
    I feel like a bad rogue for asking, but it's been playing on my mind recently. Clipping envenom is known as a mortal sin for assassination, but since it's a buff on you, does it not benefit from the "if you clip this a second early it will add the remaining time on to a new buff" effect? Similar to how rupture works.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I feel like a bad rogue for asking, but it's been playing on my mind recently. Clipping envenom is known as a mortal sin for assassination, but since it's a buff on you, does it not benefit from the "if you clip this a second early it will add the remaining time on to a new buff" effect? Similar to how rupture works.
    Saddly no. Clipping it just refreshes it. The reason rupture rolls is because it's a DoT. DoT's get the last second(or more) rolled onto the new one. Envenom is a buff, not a DoT, so it does not receive this. All that clipping envenom is good for is watching potential damage get flushed down the crapper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  6. #6
    Your log looks alright, really. I noticed you opened up with Ambush; I'd personally rather go for a free Mutilate, seeing as it's much more likely to net you more combo points (due to Blindside procs) than Ambush. Other than that, there's not really much to look at. Rupture uptime is good, SnD didn't fall off, Envenom uptime is slightly on the low side (should be around 50-60%) but I'd assume that's due to the fight mechanics rather than your incompetence... :P

    All in all, I can't really recommend doing anything differently to what you're already doing - you seem to be doing fine. Would you mind giving us your armory so we can check out your character?

    1. Clipping Envenom is better than wasting energy/combo points. Try to pool as much energy as you can before you cap, then just Envenom and dump as much energy as you can again. Remember, with Anticipation you technically have room for 10 combo points; make use of that fact. If you've got too much energy to handle, you might as well build up to 10 instead of the usual 5(but only if you've already got an Envenom buff running).

    2. Only in very rare circumstances. If you know the fight won't last long enough for another Vendetta/SB to come off cooldown, and you're well into the execute range of a boss, aligning both will net you a very decent dps-boost. Dispatch is immensely strong with SB to back up its CP generation; you should have an excess of combo points, and a constantly running Envenom buff during this period.

    3. Not sure I understand the question. You never Envenom just to get a small buff running, so one ability can have increased poison proc chance(assuming I understood you correctly). You never exceed 5 combo points either when building combo points without Envenom up(unless you're going from 4-6, which is alright if you have Anticipation). You get 5 points ready as fast as you can, you then pool, Envenom, and dump all the energy you have into CP builders. If Blindside procs at 4, you Dispatch. If Blindside procs at 5, you Envenom, then you Dispatch. Pro-tip: When your Envenom buff is running, and you're at no risk of capping combo points, using abilities is always a good thing. Get as close to 10 combo points as you can; give that buff a run for its money. Make as much use of that one buff as you possible can before reapplying Envenom.

    4. It's a minimal dps-gain, really. I personally prefer not using Vanish at all, just to have that emergency wipe-mass rez button ready at all times. But if you're going to be min/maxing, using it on cooldown/in times of low energy is preferable. There's no significant benefit to stacking it up with cooldowns.

    5. Not at all, really. That's more of a ridiculously hardcore min/maxing thing.

    6. You shouldn't really be using Crimson Tempest as Assassination. I still haven't been presented with a solid reason to do so. At 4+ targets, swap Mutilate/Dispatch for Fan of Knives. Then either continue with your single target rotation, while building CP's with FoK, or start chain-rupturing different targets if you know they'll die in seconds(to get those energy returns from Venomous Wounds). The single target rotation with FoK is no different from the normal rotation. Get 5 CP's, Envenom, use as many FoK's as you can with the Envenom buff, repeat. This also helps you get back into your normal single target rotation following the AoE phase, seeing as you won't be forced to manually reapply SnD again.

    7. None, haven't found one capable of doing so. RoguePowerBars is a good add-on to keep track of your single-target shenanigans, if that's of any help to you.
    Last edited by Incineration; 2013-01-14 at 10:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Good feedback guys. Thanks.

    To clarify on 3): I was under the impression that Blindside could also proc poisons, making it better to save for Envenom uptime. Question is at what point saving it postpones Envenom downtime enough that its not worth it.

    It seems AOEing is a lot more loosely defined, so let's have that debate. Summing up what's been said:

    2-3 targets: 2x Muti > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on all targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.
    4 targets: Not sure; maybe same as on 2-3 targets.
    5+ targets: 2x FoK > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on 3 targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.

    Opening Ambush because it's a DPS increase on current ShadowCraft engine.

    Have WeakAuras to keep track on debuffs etc. What I'm looking for is an easy way to select the targets I'm dotting (goes for my mage and boomkin as well). I'll check out Ellipsis.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zhan/Larktobi/ (didn't have tier shoulders, tier gloves and 504 Spiritsever on during linked WOL)
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2013-01-14 at 11:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    Good feedback guys. Thanks.

    To clarify on 3): I was under the impression that Blindside could also proc poisons, making it better to save for Envenom uptime. Question is at what point saving it postpones Envenom downtime enough that its not worth it.

    It seems AOEing is a lot more loosely defined, so let's have that debate. Summing up what's been said:

    2-3 targets: 2x Muti > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on all targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.
    4 targets: Not sure; maybe same as on 2-3 targets.
    5+ targets: 2x FoK > Rupture. Repeat this cycle on 3 targets while weaving Envenom to maintain SnD. FoK spam during Envenom.

    Opening Ambush because it's a DPS increase on current ShadowCraft engine.

    Have WeakAuras to keep track on debuffs etc. What I'm looking for is an easy way to select the targets I'm dotting (goes for my mage and boomkin as well). I'll check out Ellipsis.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zhan/Larktobi/ (didn't have tier shoulders, tier gloves and 504 Spiritsever on during linked WOL)
    Blindside will proc poisons. If you have Blindside procced and 3 CP, Mut to 5(6), pool to 75-80, Envenom, then use Blindside. If you are at 4 CP when Blindside procs, go ahead and use it before you Envenom to get to 5 CP.
    Mut > Ambush for opener since Ambush wont proc Blindside. Ambush hits harder than Mut but overall Mut will be better.

    For AoE, generally anything under 5+ targets is your single target rotation while keeping rupture up on as many targets as you can, usually 3 is a good target, and still going for a good envenom uptime. 5+ you replace Mut with FoK and follow the previous rotation. I should of clarified that I do at least 2x FoK before I rupture. I try to aim for a 4cp Rupture.

    I'm not a fan of not capping expertise. I know it's a possible DPS increase to not cap it in favor of more mastery, however I see you are reforging out of it in favor of crit, which I am very skeptical about.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-01-14 at 11:21 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  9. #9
    Not just Blindside, but Mutilate as well. Every melee attack has a chance to proc Instant-Deadly. That's the reason for all the pooling; Mutilate doesn't hit harder during Envenom, nor does Dispatch. Their poison proc chance is just increased, which you take advantage of by using as many abilities as you can while you've got the buff running. A full 5 point Envenom is always the optimal way to go, because; A, it guarantees your Ruthlessness proc, netting you an additional 25 energy for free, and B, (and this is a given) it increases your Envenom uptime.

    I'd like to give you a slight warning, regarding the Rupture-AoE weaving. I've not seen any real numbers done, and I can't tell you whether it's actually a dps gain or a dps loss to use that many low-CP Ruptures. You're wasting a lot of energy and the dps-returns are questionable - never mind the fact that I don't know how many points you need for that Rupture to be worth it(2-3-4... who knows). As I mentioned previously, maintaining a single Rupture will give you the amount of energy you're balanced around having, while a quick Rupture to a target that's prone to die quickly can net you some decent and safe energy returns. Dancing between targets could very well cost you more dps than you'd gain.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 12:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Blindside will proc poisons. If you have Blindside procced and 3 CP, Mut to 5(6), pool to 75-80, Envenom, then use Blindside.
    Do NOT do this. That's a horrible idea. When Blindside is procced, you must DEFINITELY use it prior to using another Mutilate. You're wasting another potential Blindside proc by Mutilate while Blindside is already procced. Use Blindside immediately if you're below 5 combo points, and if you're above 5, save it until you can use your Envenom, then use it while influenced by the buff.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Not just Blindside, but Mutilate as well. Every melee attack has a chance to proc Instant-Deadly. That's the reason for all the pooling; Mutilate doesn't hit harder during Envenom, nor does Dispatch. Their poison proc chance is just increased, which you take advantage of by using as many abilities as you can while you've got the buff running. A full 5 point Envenom is always the optimal way to go, because; A, it guarantees your Ruthlessness proc, netting you an additional 25 energy for free, and B, (and this is a given) it increases your Envenom uptime.

    I'd like to give you a slight warning, regarding the Rupture-AoE weaving. I've not seen any real numbers done, and I can't tell you whether it's actually a dps gain or a dps loss to use that many low-CP Ruptures. You're wasting a lot of energy and the dps-returns are questionable - never mind the fact that I don't know how many points you need for that Rupture to be worth it(2-3-4... who knows). As I mentioned previously, maintaining a single Rupture will give you the amount of energy you're balanced around having, while a quick Rupture to a target that's prone to die quickly can net you some decent and safe energy returns. Dancing between targets could very well cost you more dps than you'd gain.
    To be fair, the only times we really encounter a 5+ mob time is during trash, and honestly who cares about trash dps?
    I've noticed that rupture weaving on at least 3 targets with 4 CP ruptures is pretty much on par to maintaining a single target rotation but replacing mut with FoK.
    The more targets, however, the better the single target with FoK will be since it benefits more from envenom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Saddly no. Clipping it just refreshes it. The reason rupture rolls is because it's a DoT. DoT's get the last second(or more) rolled onto the new one. Envenom is a buff, not a DoT, so it does not receive this. All that clipping envenom is good for is watching potential damage get flushed down the crapper.
    A lot of buffs now have a kind of internal tick period where you can refresh them and retain the few seconds that would be lost.
    To my knowledge Envenom's tick period is 1sec and SnD's is 2sec.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    To be fair, the only times we really encounter a 5+ mob time is during trash, and honestly who cares about trash dps?
    I've noticed that rupture weaving on at least 3 targets with 4 CP ruptures is pretty much on par to maintaining a single target rotation but replacing mut with FoK.
    The more targets, however, the better the single target with FoK will be since it benefits more from envenom.
    Windlord involves several adds in the first half of the fight. Feng HC involves 8. Elegon also involves several adds. It's not exactly uncommon.

    Except that maintaining the single target + FoK rotation is infinitely easier AND it saves your single-target rotation following the AoE phase, making it the better choice for most AoE situations, I'd say.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    Good feedback guys. Thanks.

    To clarify on 3): I was under the impression that Blindside could also proc poisons, making it better to save for Envenom uptime. Question is at what point saving it postpones Envenom downtime enough that its not worth it.
    The amount of good theory in this thread is incredible.

    Aside, by the way you've re-phrased it, your answer for 3 should be obvious; DELAYing envenom is not a DPS loss, we care about envenom UPtime. Holding blindside should never lower uptime, or actually delay envenom either, but if it were to delay envenom, that would not be an issue. I'm not sure how this would come about.

    You only "hold" blindside if a mutilate procs dispatch while you aren't under envenom, but that mutilate put you at or over 5 CP, meaning you're pooling energy for envenom as it is. Pool 10 energy lower than usual, and dispatch will open your envenom phase.

    If you would ever have to choose, when you have 1 dispatch and 1 mutilate, but only 1 fits in envenom, put the mutilate in. Unless I missed a change, mut still has 2 chances to proc poison, where dispatch only has 1. Envenom doesn't increase anything but poison application...

  14. #14
    The only obvious, yet gray case I'm facing is this: I'm at 4 CP, I have a Blindside proc and currently no Envenom buff. Should I use Envenom then Blindside, or Blindside then Envenom?

    I'm currently doing the former because I want to benefit from increased poison procs on my Blindside, and I've been doing 4CP Envenom for years now; but lots of rogues swear only by 5CP Envenoms, and no less.

    What's your take on this?
    Interested in light analysis, ramblings and other
    shenanigans about rogues? Check Badstabbers.

  15. #15
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In a field, somewhere
    Posts
    6,150
    4cp envenoms were used pre mists primarily because we didn't have anticipation and so using another mutilate would cause nasty cp eating issues. Now that we have the anticipation buffer, it no longer makes sense to use 4cp envenoms in theory.

    This holds true if you've been pooling correctly and thus have the energy and time to get yourself back to a position to envenom again once it's dropped off. Outside of this, such as when you want to refresh rupture as well and as such are not sitting on cps ready to dump I'm still unsure on.

    Due to the way energy regens in a slow and somewhat RNG manner, it can often take a significant amount of time to get out a second mutilate to put you at the 5cp envenom mark, does this extra 1 second of 15% poision application rate and extra damage make up for the time delay? Possibly, but I'm not certain on it.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  16. #16
    1. Clip Envenom if you're in danger of energy capping and you're already close to 5 Anticipation charges.

    2. I would say no. Even if you're getting the full benefit of Shadow Blades, it devalues Vendetta too much.

    For example, on a 10 minute fight, you'll usually get 5 Vendettas and 3 Shadow Blades.
    However, on that same 10 minute fight, if you're trying to sync Vendetta with Shadow Blades, you are forced into 3 Vendettas and 3 Shadow Blades (it is unaffected by the 4P, as the difference between a 2 minute and 40 second cooldown and a 2 minute and 50 second cooldown (if you're wanting to use ALL of Shadow Blades during it) is minor).

    3. If you have ANY charges of Anticipation when Blindside procs, pool energy to about 60 energy, hit Envenom, then hit Dispatch.

    4. Use it on cooldown. Neither of Assassination's CDs is forgiving of stopping your auto-attack (which is what Vanish does).

    5. Not at all. There's no notable difference between a Dancing Steel/trinket Rupture and a regular Rupture because you should care more about Venomous Wounds procs than Rupture damage.

    6. I start overlapping FoK w/ 3CP Ruptures at 4 targets. Anything past 4 targets is worth swapping to Crimson Tempest for, but you'll also want to keep Rupture on the boss/main target.

    7. Tidy Plates and ElvUI's name plates (if you have them enabled, melee DPS disables it automatically) are best for multi-Rupturing.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    4cp envenoms were used pre mists primarily because we didn't have anticipation and so using another mutilate would cause nasty cp eating issues. Now that we have the anticipation buffer, it no longer makes sense to use 4cp envenoms in theory.

    This holds true if you've been pooling correctly and thus have the energy and time to get yourself back to a position to envenom again once it's dropped off. Outside of this, such as when you want to refresh rupture as well and as such are not sitting on cps ready to dump I'm still unsure on.

    Due to the way energy regens in a slow and somewhat RNG manner, it can often take a significant amount of time to get out a second mutilate to put you at the 5cp envenom mark, does this extra 1 second of 15% poision application rate and extra damage make up for the time delay? Possibly, but I'm not certain on it.
    Seeing as we're discussing bad RNG and how it can affect your rotation, one shouldn't discount the chance of Ruthlessness not proccing, resulting in you losing what equates to about 2.5 Venomous Wound procs in energy. With 5-point finishers, that energy return is guaranteed - that's not the case with 4 pointers. And while I don't have the math at hand, my intuition tells me the loss of Ruthlessness would affect your dps more severely than one or two Rupture-ticks not proccing Venomous Wounds.

  18. #18
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bedford, England
    Posts
    250
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    4. Vanish during SBs. The synergy is too good. Most fights I run shadowstep but the few I did run prep I used it right after vanish went on CD and aligned the next vanish with SB.
    Feel free to correct me, but doesn't SB replace your auto attacks? Therefore vanishing mid SB would refresh your auto attack therefore it's a loss of DPS? I prefer to use Vendetta, Vanish then SB.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 05:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Saddly no. Clipping it just refreshes it. The reason rupture rolls is because it's a DoT. DoT's get the last second(or more) rolled onto the new one. Envenom is a buff, not a DoT, so it does not receive this. All that clipping envenom is good for is watching potential damage get flushed down the crapper.
    I think you're wrong. On my timers, if I use Envenom when it has 0.9 seconds or less left, it will start again from 6.9 seconds.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    I think you're wrong. On my timers, if I use Envenom when it has 0.9 seconds or less left, it will start again from 6.9 seconds.
    No, Envenom is a buff so it refreshes to 6 seconds if used during another Envenom buff.
    If it did what you're thinking it did, there'd be no reason to pool energy like we do now.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    No, Envenom is a buff so it refreshes to 6 seconds if used during another Envenom buff.
    If it did what you're thinking it did, there'd be no reason to pool energy like we do now.
    It works like a DoT/HoT with 1-second tick timer. You need to pool energy because using envenom at 2s will refresh to 6. Using at 4.9, 3.9, 2.9, 1.9, or 0.9 will refresh to 6.9

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •