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  1. #121
    What do you do if your envenom gets parried? Do you mutilate\dispatch until you are in danger of wasting your CP and then cast it again or do you cast it again immediately?

  2. #122
    Unless you got <1sec left on Blindside (very rarely happens) you want to re-apply Envenom right away.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by hurdurr View Post
    What do you do if your envenom gets parried? Do you mutilate\dispatch until you are in danger of wasting your CP and then cast it again or do you cast it again immediately?
    Always push "towards" the cap when you have a current envenom active and no need to refresh rupture. So, yes, keep attacking until you have a reason to do otherwise. It's a "bonus" to have envenom dodged or parried unless you're going to cap anticipation.

    -unedited, original statement is correct without exception
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-03 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Typos everywhere!

  4. #124
    yes you get the envenom buff but the damage doesnt go through

  5. #125
    Ah, misread the question. Like Mugajak said, keep doing your rotation as if Envenom wasn't parried - you don't get the damage, correct, but the buff is the important part. Getting Envenom parried is an upside (and a part of the reason 2,5% expertise is a DPS gain).

  6. #126
    Will the heroic sha touched still be BiS offhand until heroic thunderforged without the 2 item upgrades? Curious regarding that.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexra View Post
    Will the heroic sha touched still be BiS offhand until heroic thunderforged without the 2 item upgrades? Curious regarding that.
    Well going with your assumption that heroic thunderforged is better than 2/2 upgraded heroic sha touched then no. Upgrades are 8 ilvl and thunderforged is 6. So heroic t15 should be better than non upgraded heroic sha touched by slightly more than heroic thunderforged is over upgraded heroic sha touched.

  8. #128
    I would hope that heroic thunderforged would be. Might not be, but a man can dream. And awesome, thank you! Much appreciated.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    It would still be nice if someone with a better CPU than mine would like to run this for some default profiles (T14H, T15H) to see how it looks.
    Ask and ye shall receive!
    T14H sim, natural stats
    T14H sim, zero haste/crit extra mastery

    In the second sim I just added the following lines to adjust
    gear_mastery_rating=13444
    gear_haste_rating=-1936
    gear_crit_rating=-4786

    Merged
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-04 at 05:34 AM.
    Never argue with and idiot. They bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Some people should be forced to re-level their toons, and pay more attention to the process...

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by soxyboi View Post
    Ask and ye shall receive!
    T14H sim, natural stats
    T14H sim, zero haste/crit extra mastery

    In the second sim I just added the following lines to adjust
    gear_mastery_rating=13444
    gear_haste_rating=-1936
    gear_crit_rating=-4786
    Napkin MATHERY!

    10/22 maximum uptime, modified by time to proc at .92 (before % modifiers for quality). The ICD enforces a "10-second window" for the first hit after the ICD. SimC or another fancy calculator probably has a better idea of what uptime to expect here, but w/e. For the first attack, chance to re-proc is approximately 1/6 (time since last attack 10 seconds, approximately 1 cast per minute before ICD). Approximating horribly from there, on average it should proc 50 seconds later. 10s duration, average of 72s downtime between procs (beginning, not end), puts us at 10/72. For easy math, and because we have haste/SnD affecting RPPM, let's nudge to 10/70 and say we're still undervaluing.

    1/7 * [BiS profile (MOAR MASTERY) - BiS profile (normal stats)] ~= trinket proc addition value for T14H BiS
    1/7 * [131,181 - 117,451] ~= Trinket proc addition value for T14H BiS
    Trinket proc value for T14H BiS ~= 1961.43 DPS.

    Convert EP to DPS for better approximate comparisons to other trinkets, but again, this value will change in accordance with your gear.

    Thanks Soxyboi for running the sims. To sim your own stats at any point in time, get a more accurate vision of uptime than I have simulated here in napkin math, and do the exact same basis for stat alterations I quote from Soxyboi (adding rating= and rating=- for your stats), compare the two profiles, and multiply by percentage of RoR proc uptime.

    Merged from the ToB/RoR discussion because this is more universal for 5.2 assassination.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-04 at 05:34 AM.

  11. #131
    Question about MFD and Horridon, I'm currently using MFD to stack a quick 5CP rupture on one of the large adds and then relying on the energy regen from that rupture to carry me through mut/envenom spam on the smaller adds. Seems to burst them down quicker. Once the other dps kill that add, I use it again to apply a 5 cp rupture to another large add and repeat. I've tried combat on this fight and when I play combat, I just MFD the smaller adds to hit them with eviserates. Should I be using the same tactic with assas? Seems like i'm wasting alot of 5 CP ruptures that way.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Question about MFD and Horridon, I'm currently using MFD to stack a quick 5CP rupture on one of the large adds and then relying on the energy regen from that rupture to carry me through mut/envenom spam on the smaller adds. Seems to burst them down quicker. Once the other dps kill that add, I use it again to apply a 5 cp rupture to another large add and repeat. I've tried combat on this fight and when I play combat, I just MFD the smaller adds to hit them with eviserates. Should I be using the same tactic with assas? Seems like i'm wasting alot of 5 CP ruptures that way.
    How are 5 CP ruptures wasted? When the small mob dies, MfD resets (at the cost of 1 GCD rather than 5 CP for your rupture placement) and you get ALL of your energy back (assuming most of the rupture was left). You should feel flooded with energy and have MfD off CD constantly - yes, use finishers on the low HP adds using MfD.

  13. #133
    Yeah I guess I was looking at it all wrong. I was tunnel visioning the energy cap and it really isn't wasted energy. I kinda flounder on that fight in general. The constant target switching ruins my groove, I'll try using MFD a little more appropriately.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Yeah I guess I was looking at it all wrong. I was tunnel visioning the energy cap and it really isn't wasted energy. I kinda flounder on that fight in general. The constant target switching ruins my groove, I'll try using MFD a little more appropriately.
    It's sick on Primordius too. Multidot dem blobs.

  15. #135
    So the way my guild does council is to have our warrior sit on priestess and the pally sit on Zul/Frosty. I stay on Zul to interrupt/expose/smoke bomb during tank stun. I also try to keep expose up on Frosty and Blanka. I usually follow up my expose combo point on frosty with a couple muty's and a 4-5 CP rupture then switch back to Zul (My line of thinking here is that the extra energy regen will help my single target on Zul). My question is, is it worth it to use the one cp I get from throwing expose on Blanka when he rolls near me to put a small rupture on him or should I just let that one go and use the energy on Zul. Same goes with frost king, would I be better suited to just hit him with expose and then quickly shift back to Zul. Our goal is to get Zul down as fast as possible by keeping me on him full time except for the aforementioned exposes.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    So the way my guild does council is to have our warrior sit on priestess and the pally sit on Zul/Frosty. I stay on Zul to interrupt/expose/smoke bomb during tank stun. I also try to keep expose up on Frosty and Blanka. I usually follow up my expose combo point on frosty with a couple muty's and a 4-5 CP rupture then switch back to Zul (My line of thinking here is that the extra energy regen will help my single target on Zul). My question is, is it worth it to use the one cp I get from throwing expose on Blanka when he rolls near me to put a small rupture on him or should I just let that one go and use the energy on Zul. Same goes with frost king, would I be better suited to just hit him with expose and then quickly shift back to Zul. Our goal is to get Zul down as fast as possible by keeping me on him full time except for the aforementioned exposes.
    We pop hero and burn Zul all the way down at the very start then just focus the possessed target while multidotting. If your DPS isn't that high (we really shouldn't still be doing it on normal), then burn him to ~30% and then swap to Frost and get the possess to swap before his energy fills. After that, kill Zul and then focus the possessed target.

    As far as throwing Ruptures, it's probably worth it; I doubt it will improve your single target damage by much, but your overall will go up a little. I'm pretty sure 1CP Rupture is energy positive and damage on every target is important; Zul just needs to die before he gets possessed. I'm not so sure maintaining Expose Armor on every target is very important, but that's a different discussion.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    We pop hero and burn Zul all the way down at the very start then just focus the possessed target while multidotting. If your DPS isn't that high (we really shouldn't still be doing it on normal), then burn him to ~30% and then swap to Frost and get the possess to swap before his energy fills. After that, kill Zul and then focus the possessed target.

    As far as throwing Ruptures, it's probably worth it; I doubt it will improve your single target damage by much, but your overall will go up a little. I'm pretty sure 1CP Rupture is energy positive and damage on every target is important; Zul just needs to die before he gets possessed. I'm not so sure maintaining Expose Armor on every target is very important, but that's a different discussion.
    God I wish we could burn him down in the space of a hero lol. We're going straight from nomals (a few HC kills) to TOT so our gear isn't quite up to snuff yet (this encounter still seems very doable for us). If you're saying the juice is worth the squeeze on the 1 cp rupture, I'll keep going that route (throw in a muty to if i have time/energy). The expose thing was our original strat but looking at the fight I plan to only throw an extra expose on the targets that are possesed.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    God I wish we could burn him down in the space of a hero lol. We're going straight from nomals (a few HC kills) to TOT so our gear isn't quite up to snuff yet (this encounter still seems very doable for us). If you're saying the juice is worth the squeeze on the 1 cp rupture, I'll keep going that route (throw in a muty to if i have time/energy). The expose thing was our original strat but looking at the fight I plan to only throw an extra expose on the targets that are possesed.
    Just to clarify, the Rupture is only worth it if you're going to Expose Armor anyway. Don't EA just to Rupture. Also ensure that the target gets poisoned; it usually will in those two globals, but you could end up autoattacking for a few extra seconds to get something off.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    Looking at the sim, it seems to me like 3rd rotation is the best. It's within margin of error and I can think of no reason that we should lead with SB - losing a second of SnD uptime as well as wasting the first second of SB not getting the extra CP both go against it. Until proven wrong, I'll go with:

    Ambush > SnD > Shadow Blades > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Standard Rotation
    Hello - i used to doing that opening rotation (well with mutilate at the start for blindside proc but anyway) i want to ask today i got my set 2 from tier 15 and im wondering if i should keep doing that opening or change something as shadow blades got 12sec duration now

  20. #140
    Q: Why is no one using Garrote?
    A: Garrote and Rupture both apply Venomous Wounds, but they don't stack, and Rupture ticks every 2 seconds compared to Garrote's 3 seconds, giving you less energy over time. Mutilate and Ambush - the two alternative stealth openers - both add two combo points, and hit harder.

    Opener/Vanish (Normal)
    Night stalker: Ambush +25% > Garrote +25%
    Subterfuge: Ambush, Ambush > Garrote, Ambush
    Shadow Focus: Free Ambush > Free Garrote

    Subterfuge clearly gives the most damage and you already granted 4-5 points after an opener which you will clearly use on Rapture.

    This isn't always the case with Haste Buff (Lust or Trinket)/Cheap skill cost:
    Subterfuge: Garrote,Ambush, Ambush > Ambush, Ambush

    ~The dot will overall give you a DPS increase as long as you achieve it using the 3 opener rotation which is only possible with haste buff or cheaper skill cost buff found in Gear set bonus. Also benefiting from venomous wounds at the very beginning.
    ~This will also give you 5 points withOUT depending on Seal Fate. You will be using this to make 5 point rapture.
    ~Its NOT possible to do 3 Ambush even before the nerf they did with subterfuge.
    ~You also don't have to worry about venomous wounds since it automatically shuts off on Garrote once Rapture is present. It will swap to Rapture and the tooltip says so.
    Last edited by Tomia; 2013-03-24 at 11:20 AM.

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