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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    French intervention in Mali

    So if you missed the news, since friday the french army has officially been fighting in Mali against the northern rebels, after a call for help from the malian interim president who faced a new wave of assaults targetting Mopti, a major city in central Mali, and that could have gone all the way to the capital Bamako. Seeing that the "friendly country" (Mali was a french colony until 1960) could not survive until the african-led operation planned in september, french president Hollande authorized air raids and bombings; the involvement of french ground troops on the frontlines is unclear at this point, though they have been gathering in Bamako from neighbouring African countries such as Tchad and Ivory Coast, in order to, officially, train the malian army that will retake the northern half of the country.

    The intervention enjoys a relative consensus on the national plane, and both the US and the EU have anounced their support, though it seems they will not engage in the military operations themselves. The french government insists that the operation is led with respect to international laws, and that they seek to prevent the installation of a djihadist sanctuary that could destabilize the region and target Europe.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20991719
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17582909

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    The intervention enjoys a relative consensus on the national plane, and both the US and the EU have anounced their support, though it seems they will not engage in the military operations themselves.
    US Special Forces have been in Mali for a while now however as far as I know they are limited to training/logistics.

    Britain is sending C17s and the US is providing satellite intelligence. I also heard something about Canadian Special Forces doing some training in neighboring countries (niger iirc).

  3. #3
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    Yup it's been on the news here, they said the air raids killed 60 islamists or something like that. I think this has been planed for while, Angela Merkel spoke about sending german troops down there in October 2012, not sure if there are Germans there though? Our armed forces said they got 15 guys or so(didn't give specifics, probably SF) in the region providing training for the Mali forces.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

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    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olo View Post
    US Special Forces have been in Mali for a while now however as far as I know they are limited to training/logistics.

    Britain is sending C17s and the US is providing satellite intelligence. I also heard something about Canadian Special Forces doing some training in neighboring countries (niger iirc).
    Yeah they're providing logistical support, but no ground troops or air forces.
    And I was reading an article about how the training done by the americans ended up being useless or counterproductive, apparently they trained the ones who ended up being the separatists.

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    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    Yeah they're providing logistical support, but no ground troops or air forces.
    And I was reading an article about how the training done by the americans ended up being useless or counterproductive, apparently they trained the ones who ended up being the separatists.
    I can't imagine our training ever being useless. Now did we train the wrong people? Possibly. But if nothing else, we made them worthy opponents.

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    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Seems like French forces were invited there by parties representing the best hope for democracy and pluralism in the country so I see no problems with their decision to intervene there.

    I'm pleasantly surprised that Hollande is willing to flex some international muscle.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer JfmC's Avatar
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    Duh! France should stop to try and police the world etc....
    No, I'm actually happy they chose to intervene, because otherwise Mali might have become a 2nd Afghanistan with a strict sharia rule :S
    Thread:Will we ever create A.I?
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  8. #8
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    I'm pleasantly surprised that Hollande is willing to flex some international muscle.
    So am I, I was worried he might be too soft for the hard decisions but so far I've been surprinsingly satisfied, given that I didn't vote for the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    Seems like French forces were invited there by parties representing the best hope for democracy and pluralism in the country so I see no problems with their decision to intervene there.
    And at the same time we refused to intervene in Centrafrique who is also calling for help against rebels (not islamists though).. so hopefully we won't get accused of neo-colonialism. Algeria's watching this whole situation with suspicion it seems.

  9. #9
    Algeria tends to act suspicious of anything France ever does. Pretty much every time France sends even one soldier anywhere, the word colonialism pops up in their news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

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    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ichime View Post
    Algeria tends to act suspicious of anything France ever does. Pretty much every time France sends even one soldier anywhere, the word colonialism pops up in their news.
    I don't blame them. They had it rough.

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    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    And at the same time we refused to intervene in Centrafrique who is also calling for help against rebels (not islamists though).. so hopefully we won't get accused of neo-colonialism. Algeria's watching this whole situation with suspicion it seems.
    There's always a difficult line to walk with interventionist foreign policy unfortunately and the anti-war camp will always condemn governments that choose to intervene in specific areas by doing stuff like immediately condemning them for not intervening in another place too. With people like that, I think the best strategy is just to play their argument back to them. Like, "Oh, because we didn't help Darfur in time we shouldn't have helped prevent the Bosnian genocide either, just so its fair?". It soon shows them how silly they sound protesting against helping one group of people because another group wasn't helped.

    It's upsetting that the UN can't or won't help every country in trouble, but when member countries do take action to help people being oppressed, we should still be happy that its happening even if it isn't happening everywhere.

    Also, on the subject of colonialism, I think a country which formerly occupied another country should be at least somewhat involved in ensuring its peaceful transition to and maintenance of independence, as long as they are invited to do so. I wouldn't fear the word being thrown around because it always will be when referring to any country which at one point had foreign territory.
    Last edited by Baiyn; 2013-01-14 at 01:13 PM.

  12. #12
    I don't blame them for having some form of national ptsd since that time. I do blame them for using it as a guilt weapon pretty much all the time. It's getting really, really old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I can't imagine our training ever being useless. Now did we train the wrong people? Possibly. But if nothing else, we made them worthy opponents.
    Well they were there to train the Malian military and it was their coup last year that pretty much facilitated the takeover so…bleh

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ichime View Post
    I don't blame them for having some form of national ptsd since that time. I do blame them for using it as a guilt weapon pretty much all the time. It's getting really, really old.
    The guys using it are getting really really old too. Seems like the younger generations have the same view on France as the moroccans : A rich and nice country with loads of culture and ties with their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    Also, on the subject of colonialism, I think a country which formerly occupied another country should be at least somewhat involved in ensuring its peaceful transition to and maintenance of independence, as long as they are invited to do so. I wouldn't fear the word being thrown around because it always will be when referring to any country which at one point had foreign territory.
    France has unfortunately been guilty of colonialism even after the independance, ensuring that whichever dictator is on the throne is friendly to us..

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    France has unfortunately been guilty of colonialism even after the independance, ensuring that whichever dictator is on the throne is friendly to us..
    Well, I think a lot of Western countries have been considerably better behaved since the end of the Cold War. Many of the actions of all the belligerents involved in that feud were deplorable (like pretty much everything about Vietnam, which arguably was French neo-colonialism defended by US forces in a reckless attempt to curb the spread of Communism), but diplomacy has gotten slightly more transparent since the Wall came down.
    The fact that nearly everything can be caught on camera and rapidly spread over the internet by civillian witnesses now has likely played a big part in making democratic governments conduct themselves with more international civility.

    Still, it's not perfect and words like "Imperialism" and "Colonialism" will always be thrown around because they can be (as they are a cheap and easy way for anti-war lobbyists to sound "intelligent"). But, it's a lot better today than it was in the past. And I think that, considering stories of prisoners being water-boarded (even though it is condemnable) and similar scandals are the worst news stories we hear about UN member governments today when in the past we had things like the murder of a democratically elected president, Salvador Allende of Chile, things are, for the most part, comparatively good these days.

  16. #16
    We all know France just wants Mali's rich deposits of Uranium, just like the Americans wanted the Iraq Oil :P

    On a serious note. I am glad for once the French actually are doing the right thing rather then taking advantage of the situation and funding a Pro-French counter Rebellion like they did several times in the past.

  17. #17
    Less fanatics in the world, excellent.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotutha View Post
    We all know France just wants Mali's rich deposits of Uranium, just like the Americans wanted the Iraq Oil :P.
    I know you mean it in jest but I dont actually think youre that far off the mark. France has a massive nuclear programme. Mali has a massive amount of uranium. coiincidence?

    tbh id rather the world left these countries to get on with things. all we will do is make it worse and drag it out. now every jihadi for miles will be heading for Mali. the UK is closing schools and hopistals to save money but yet again is about to piss money away on a pointless foreign adventure. let the french deal with it, if they must.

  19. #19
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    This is probably for the Uranium there. France and Europe in general didn't seem to care much when a "friendly country" was undergoing a brutal mass genocide in 1992, so why do they care now? There's far more to this than is being told. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, hell I don't even think the U.S. went into Iraq for its oil, but for this story, there's more to it than is apparent for now.

  20. #20
    -Mali won't get taken over by Islamists and turned into another Somalia.
    -Significant cut down on rabies infested Islamists.
    -Uranium mines stay under the control of current government and France gets to enjoy it.

    Sounds good.

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