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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Which was....?
    Attempting to distribute academic journals to people for free after downloading them from MIT's network.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  2. #82
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    What he did should not have been considered criminal activity.
    He broke into a secure room. Accessed a secure server. And downloaded information he didn't have the right to after uploading his own program to quickly download hundreds of thousands of documents. That is a crime just as anyone that breaks into your house is committing a crime.

    He didn't steal anything, unless you consider having something that was stolen from you to still be there for you after they 'stole' it.
    So if I steal your credit card information did I commit a crime? You still have your credit card and its info. But I also now have it and can give it to whoever I want.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  3. #83
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    I wish everyone would stop being fucking illiterate about the title.


    Inventor for the internet is not Inventor of the internet.

  4. #84
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Which was....?
    "According to the indictment against him, Swartz surreptitiously attached a laptop to MIT's computer network, which allowed him to "rapidly download an extraordinary volume of articles from JSTOR."

    He download about 4 million articles. He also only had to spend 6 months in prison to avoid trial and he was told that a short time before he killed himself.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Howdyho View Post
    I'd like to point out that Steve Jobs didn't commit suicide.
    No. Steve jobs hung in their through one of the roughest diseases known to man.

    Aaron Swartz was an angsty child who killed himself to get out of going to court. He managed to help a bunch of introvert bloggers during his existence, but that's about it.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    He broke into a secure room. Accessed a secure server. And downloaded information he didn't have the right to after uploading his own program to quickly download hundreds of thousands of documents. That is a crime just as anyone that breaks into your house is committing a crime.
    I don't see any part where he broke into a room. What he downloaded is information that should be freely available.


    So if I steal your credit card information did I commit a crime? You still have your credit card and its info. But I also now have it and can give it to whoever I want.
    If you gain access to my credit card information, you have not necessarily committed a crime. If you use that information to then take my money, then you have stolen from me because I no longer have that money. If gaining access to credit card information itself was considered stealing every cashier in any place that accepts cards would be a criminal.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    No. Steve jobs hung in their through one of the roughest diseases known to man.

    Aaron Swartz was an angsty child who killed himself to get out of going to court. He managed to help a bunch of introvert bloggers during his existence, but that's about it.
    And helping to found Reddit and a few other things.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2013-01-16 at 06:02 AM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  7. #87
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I'm still confused.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And helping to found Reddit and a few other things.
    Reddit's key demographic is introvert bloggers and children. Stop strengthening my statement.

    Also I've never found it to be impressive when someone takes an unoriginal recycled website idea and makes a fortune out of it.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    Reddit's key demographic is introvert bloggers and children. Stop strengthening my statement.

    Also I've never found it to be impressive when someone takes an unoriginal recycled website idea and makes a fortune out of it.
    What the fuck does introvert have to do with anything.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellsbane88 View Post
    This guy STOLE information. He isn't a saint, nor a martyr. He is a criminal, and he got caught, and the best thing about this story is that the tax payers don't have to pay to keep this cowardly excuse of a man locked up for the next 2 or 3 decades.
    Wrong, he "stole" information that should be free, he was been bullied by the US government prosecutors into a plea before he took his life, Is this how you want your justice system working?
    Its amazing people Aaron Swartz this man a thief whilst celebrating Steve Jobs(stole others ideas whilst exploiting others) and Mark Zuckerberg(who site is solely designed at selling personal information to corporations under the guise of connecting with "friends").
    AAron swartz was a great programmer as well as been an activist for non censorship of the web. As usual another great hero's death is largely ignored by mainstream media

  11. #91
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    I don't see any part where he broke into a room. What he downloaded is information that should be freely available.
    Where else would he be able to attach a computer to a server? The park? They don't keep things like that out in the open.



    If you gain access to my credit card information, you have not necessarily committed a crime. If you use that information to then take my money, then you have stolen from me because I no longer have that money. If gaining access to credit card information itself was considered stealing every cashier in any place that accepts cards would be a criminal.
    So what if I just charge stuff to your card? You aren't losing any money because credit is digital and not physical. And yes if a cashier copies your credit information that is a crime. What if I hack into your computer, take your private photos, and post them all over the internet? What if you are a writer and I hack into your computer steal your manuscript and post it on the internet for free? What if someone did that for harry potter?

    Stealing is a crime, no matter how you want to cut it. Cashiers aren't stealing because they don't take your information and keep it. They temporarily use your information after you authorize them to do so (You handing them the card is you authorizing them).
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    Reddit's key demographic is introvert bloggers and children. Stop strengthening my statement.

    Also I've never found it to be impressive when someone takes an unoriginal recycled website idea and makes a fortune out of it.
    Good to know that you can classify a website that you don't seem to know a whole lot about as being composed of 'introvert bloggers and children'.

    For the record, Reddit's main demographic is males in their mid twenties to thirties who are college-educated, but I guess they're all just introverted bloggers and children.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  13. #93
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Gaunt View Post
    Wrong, he "stole" information that should be free, he was been bullied by the US government prosecutors into a plea before he took his life, Is this how you want your justice system working?
    You don't want a justice system that enforces the law against those who break it? I think your car should be free for anyone to use can I then just steal it? Does it have to be more then one person that thinks that? Whats the magic number for when its okay to break a law? You can "fight the system" and change laws without resorting to stealing.

    He wasn't bullied by the government, he was being prosecuted for breaking the law. He was told he only had to spend 6 months in jail if he plead out. That isn't bullying that is given the person a break by giving them a way to avoid a potential maximum sentence. Which was 35 years and 1 million dollars. He may have been a great programmer, an activist but he certainly wasn't a hero. He wasn't a robin hood and he was certainly a criminal that wasn't be harassed unfairly by the government.

    After all if he was why didn't he sue the government? Why didn't he use that to get his charges dropped? Why did nobody care about him and his crime until he killed himself?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Where else would he be able to attach a computer to a server? The park? They don't keep things like that out in the open.





    So what if I just charge stuff to your card? You aren't losing any money because credit is digital and not physical. And yes if a cashier copies your credit information that is a crime. What if I hack into your computer, take your private photos, and post them all over the internet? What if you are a writer and I hack into your computer steal your manuscript and post it on the internet for free? What if someone did that for harry potter?

    Stealing is a crime, no matter how you want to cut it. Cashiers aren't stealing because they don't take your information and keep it. They temporarily use your information after you authorize them to do so (You handing them the card is you authorizing them).
    So you didn't even read the posts.

    He had the laptop hidden in a closet. He wasn't going mission impossible breaking into university data storage rooms.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Where else would he be able to attach a computer to a server? The park? They don't keep things like that out in the open.
    I don't really consider walking somewhere you aren't supposed to go as 'breaking into'. Trespassing, maybe.

    So what if I just charge stuff to your card? You aren't losing any money because credit is digital and not physical. And yes if a cashier copies your credit information that is a crime. What if I hack into your computer, take your private photos, and post them all over the internet? What if you are a writer and I hack into your computer steal your manuscript and post it on the internet for free? What if someone did that for harry potter?
    If you charge my card, you are stealing from me or the store you use it at, depending on who the CC company feels shouldn't get their money. Before it is resolved, you have created a debt in my name. If you access and post my private photos, you are committing a different crime. If you post my manuscript, you are sharing information unless somebody decides to try to claim it as their own, in which case you are an accessory to fraud.

    Stealing is a crime, no matter how you want to cut it. Cashiers aren't stealing because they don't take your information and keep it. They temporarily use your information after you authorize them to do so (You handing them the card is you authorizing them).
    Stealing requires somebody to have lost an item after somebody else has taken it. You can steal my banana, for example, because I won't have it anymore after you take it from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You don't want a justice system that enforces the law against those who break it? I think your car should be free for anyone to use can I then just steal it? Does it have to be more then one person that thinks that? Whats the magic number for when its okay to break a law? You can "fight the system" and change laws without resorting to stealing.

    He wasn't bullied by the government, he was being prosecuted for breaking the law. He was told he only had to spend 6 months in jail if he plead out. That isn't bullying that is given the person a break by giving them a way to avoid a potential maximum sentence. Which was 35 years and 1 million dollars. He may have been a great programmer, an activist but he certainly wasn't a hero. He wasn't a robin hood and he was certainly a criminal that wasn't be harassed unfairly by the government.

    After all if he was why didn't he sue the government? Why didn't he use that to get his charges dropped? Why did nobody care about him and his crime until he killed himself?
    I don't want a system that enforces laws that shouldn't exist. For example, should you be required to have a plastic bag over a bottle of beer that you purchased? Well, according to the law here, you have to. That doesn't make it any less stupid. That is a law that should not be enforced.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felfury View Post
    Almost a few hundred years ago that same principle was applied to an entire country, the result was the USA.
    This was exactly what I thought upon reading most of the replies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puck View Post
    I find it quite disheartening that I got an erection just by reading "Cowboy boots".
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  17. #97
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    If you charge my card, you are stealing from me or the store you use it at, depending on who the CC company feels shouldn't get their money. Before it is resolved, you have created a debt in my name. If you access and post my private photos, you are committing a different crime. If you post my manuscript, you are sharing information unless somebody decides to try to claim it as their own, in which case you are an accessory to fraud.
    But the debt isn't physical. I didn't physically take anything from you, I only took non-physical digital goods from you. How is accessing and posting your private photos a crime, if what Aaron did isn't a crime? Both are digital goods that someone claims ownership over. Both are being taken by someone that doesn't have ownership. Both are being given to everyone on the internet.

    You can't have it both ways. Either taking and distributing digital goods isn't a crime or it is. You keep claiming all these things involving your stuff would be a crime. So why isn't a crime when it involves another persons stuff? Why the double standard?

    Stealing requires somebody to have lost an item after somebody else has taken it. You can steal my banana, for example, because I won't have it anymore after you take it from me.
    You said I stole your credit card information when I took it. You still have it, you still can use it. You didn't lose anything by me taking and using it. Double standards. Why? And by the way he was charge with more then simple theft.

    I don't want a system that enforces laws that shouldn't exist. For example, should you be required to have a plastic bag over a bottle of beer that you purchased? Well, according to the law here, you have to. That doesn't make it any less stupid. That is a law that should not be enforced.
    [/quote]

    But should the law against stealing digital goods be enforced? You can't have it both ways, because if you don't want it enforced that means anyone can steal anything digital and not be guilty of anything.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #98
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But the debt isn't physical. I didn't physically take anything from you, I only took non-physical digital goods from you. How is accessing and posting your private photos a crime, if what Aaron did isn't a crime? Both are digital goods that someone claims ownership over. Both are being taken by someone that doesn't have ownership. Both are being given to everyone on the internet.

    You can't have it both ways. Either taking and distributing digital goods isn't a crime or it is. You keep claiming all these things involving your stuff would be a crime. So why isn't a crime when it involves another persons stuff? Why the double standard?



    You said I stole your credit card information when I took it. You still have it, you still can use it. You didn't lose anything by me taking and using it. Double standards. Why? And by the way he was charge with more then simple theft.

    But should the law against stealing digital goods be enforced? You can't have it both ways, because if you don't want it enforced that means anyone can steal anything digital and not be guilty of anything.[/QUOTE]

    This is your first decent post.

    You using his credit card does result in him losing something. His money obviously. 1000-50=950

    With the exception of currency you can't really steal anything digital. At best you can make a copy and then delete the original. But even then that's not really theft but more copying and destruction.


    If I torrent a movie, anyone else can go and torrent the movie as well because I didn't take 1 of a limited supply. The supply is effectively infinite.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But the debt isn't physical. I didn't physically take anything from you, I only took non-physical digital goods from you. How is accessing and posting your private photos a crime, if what Aaron did isn't a crime? Both are digital goods that someone claims ownership over. Both are being taken by someone that doesn't have ownership. Both are being given to everyone on the internet.

    You can't have it both ways. Either taking and distributing digital goods isn't a crime or it is. You keep claiming all these things involving your stuff would be a crime. So why isn't a crime when it involves another persons stuff? Why the double standard?
    You're talking in circles and making false claims.

    You said I stole your credit card information when I took it. You still have it, you still can use it. You didn't lose anything by me taking and using it. Double standards. Why? And by the way he was charge with more then simple theft.
    I actually didn't, but ok.

    But should the law against stealing digital goods be enforced? You can't have it both ways, because if you don't want it enforced that means anyone can steal anything digital and not be guilty of anything.
    Again, stealing requires somebody be deprived of something while you gain that something.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

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