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  1. #21
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Wait, so Retribution gets to heal harder with Priest spells?
    Flash Heal
    --vs--
    Flash of Light

    I mean, if Ret Paladins are expected to use other class' spells to be able to actually heal, well I think we found where the problem might be.
    I noticed that too. Couldn't help but chuckle a bit, realizing people will surely run with it and claim Blizz doesn't even know their own classes spells.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 10:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Buhrag View Post
    They are buffing the baseline amount healed for ret, and to compensate so that their off heals wouldnt be ridiculous, they lowered the Selfless healer talent to buff FoL by 20/40/60 percent, down from 33/66/100.
    Yeah, I understand that much. However, are Holy and Prot affected by the nerf to 20/40/60 from 33/66/100, or is it just Ret? That's what I'm unsure about.
    Armories: Death Knight / Paladin
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    Stop dating strippers.
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    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  2. #22
    People saying Flash of Light heals for too much now are forgetting one thing... we can cast 2 of them, then we're pretty much out of mana.

  3. #23
    -edit-
    nvm

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I noticed that too. Couldn't help but chuckle a bit, realizing people will surely run with it and claim Blizz doesn't even know their own classes spells.
    Considering "Mind Control is very powerful and can let you use enemy pkayers' abilities"... Yeah, they really don't.
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  5. #25
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Considering "Mind Control is very powerful and can let you use enemy pkayers' abilities"... Yeah, they really don't.
    Well, in all fairness, Mind Control IS very powerful :P

    You can tell I've died too many times from laugh-happy priests in AB and EoTS. And no, I am not upset about it at all.
    Armories: Death Knight / Paladin
    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  6. #26
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubadudu View Post
    What are your thoughts?
    My thoughts are this:
    Keep in mind with those changes you haven't seen yet that they may change again before they reach the PTR.
    It's a little bit amusing, how people tend to read one thing, and overlook the most important part...
    With all that said, until anything reached LIVE realms, it's safe to say we are essentially talking about eggs that aren't even laid yet. But we still start judging the chicken...

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Humbugged's Avatar
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    A much needed change considering they decided to not nerf Warrior's Second Wind ability, but rather protective stance for arms/fury (But since I PvP as prot and take Bladestorm for snare immunity, I get 0 nerfs this patch)
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  8. #28
    The Patient Monoroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    Oke you use Divine Shield you can use HoP for 1 min and you'r sitting duck after that even if you can use HoP doesn't help you against casters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 06:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    People saying Flash of Light heals for too much now are forgetting one thing... we can cast 2 of them, then we're pretty much out of mana.
    And they prob doesn't count that when we get crazy heals they'r at 3 stacks of SH and usualy used on your partner and if cast on our self at full mana we can use 2 FoL then we need to wait for 2-4 sec to get mana for 3rd FoL and then we'r completly oom.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:
    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.
    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.
    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.
    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction
    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    Divine Shield can be easily removed by some of the most common classes currently... Warriors & Priests. You cannot go into an Arena Match/RBG/BG w/o encountering the opposing in a 10vs10 with at least 1-5 of these at a given time considering how strong they are.

    Divine Protection cannot be used while CC'd and with the amount instant CCs currently in the game as well as the damage being absurd... you're going to die before you're able.

    Hand of Protection has plenty of flaws and it's really meant for the Team. All arena players of skill who are training a Ret and have a dispel will be removing every buff that Paladin has as soon as it lands. Double Purge? Easy. Mass Dispel/Dispel from Priests? Done. Mage spell steal? Cool... and you can include Warriors + Hunters. At the same time it only protects against Physical sources and looking at the general teams they all have a dispel or a way of breaking the bubble. Once a Paladin is getting trained there is little to stop it.

    Devo Aura being on a lengthy CD... and we're just going to stand there then proceed to cast Flash of Lights on ourselves? It's a group oriented buff... Most of our abilities are generally for group support.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    Most of our abilities are generally for group support.
    * + all of which holy have, none are ret exclusive

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    Divine Shield neuters and Hand of Protection completely neutralizes our offensive output - in other words, any incentive for the people attacking us to stop. They're excellent defensive cooldowns for Holy Paladins since they don't impair their function at all, bu they are wretched for Ret and Prot. I'd even go so far as to call them albatrosses around the spec's neck, since they make it look like we have two awesome defensive tools when we really don't.

    Devotion Aura and Divine Protection both do nothing to protect us from melee classes. And guess where we usually fight? Yep, that's right... in melee. We are in fact the only melee class I can think of that's better off kiting than trying to stick to a warrior, DK, rogue, or monk. You can glyph Divine Protection, true, but that just makes is a mediocre defensive against everyone instead of good against casters and worthless against physical damage classes. You pick your poison, I suppose.

    I agree that Elementals are in a bad spot. But that spec having a rough time of it doesn't make Ret's defensives good. They might be good by comparison, but I guarantee you don't want the design team to shoot for our level of survivability. Aim higher.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    hahahahahahaha Saved this post to show my arena mates, so they can see how *special* some people can be.
    Thank god even that moron ghost crawler knows more about ret than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    Divine Shield can be easily removed by some of the most common classes currently... Warriors & Priests. You cannot go into an Arena Match/RBG/BG w/o encountering the opposing in a 10vs10 with at least 1-5 of these at a given time considering how strong they are.

    Divine Protection cannot be used while CC'd and with the amount instant CCs currently in the game as well as the damage being absurd... you're going to die before you're able.

    Hand of Protection has plenty of flaws and it's really meant for the Team. All arena players of skill who are training a Ret and have a dispel will be removing every buff that Paladin has as soon as it lands. Double Purge? Easy. Mass Dispel/Dispel from Priests? Done. Mage spell steal? Cool... and you can include Warriors + Hunters. At the same time it only protects against Physical sources and looking at the general teams they all have a dispel or a way of breaking the bubble. Once a Paladin is getting trained there is little to stop it.

    Devo Aura being on a lengthy CD... and we're just going to stand there then proceed to cast Flash of Lights on ourselves? It's a group oriented buff... Most of our abilities are generally for group support.
    Dude, dont try to argue with him because debating *special* people that have no idea how ret works in arenas is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

    On topic: Flash heals sucks, blizzard needs to understand that ret, feral and enhance are not supose to be on the same boat as shadow,elemental and balance. Melee hybrids got only 60k mana, while the second group has 400k.
    They need to make two separate groups of hybrids: Melee hybrids and Caster hybrids and do class balance around that.

    Balance ret flash heal around shadow priest flash heal is stupid. ret can only cast 2 or 3 while shadow can spam at least 4 or 5 times more.

    Infracted. Keep your posts civil and polite
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-01-15 at 08:08 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    What drives people to go to other class' forums and spew ignorance. Every even remotely serious PvPer knows that Ret is the number 1 spec to train in arena, no spec is worse at reducing and avoiding damage. You can read off our spell book all you want, but your arguments have to have some real PvP context to mean anything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 06:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    On my elemental Shaman, healing surge CRITS for like 38k. So, you doing 50k noncrit, seems a little much.
    You can cast surge what like 10-15 times before going oom? We can do it umm twice. Not to mention that as a ranged class you can actually get away from the action and cast, we can't really cast if anything is on us.

  14. #34
    Field Marshal Lenarific's Avatar
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    i always wondered do the people that tell us how OP or how Special ret is ever play one? iv played ret sence BC and its been a roller coaster and it seems we are at our best now my dps is above average i can out dps Mages lol and wars locks are meh depends on thier gear and in pvp with a healer following me around i can dominate most BG's utlity for us is meh and if u get us alone if we dont blow you up in 15seconeds we probbly cant also getting chained CCed is a pain but thats part of the new wow

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Divine Protection is on a minute cooldown and needs to have a glyph wasted to get the physical portion.
    It's not wasted. You're using a glyph to get the benefit of 20% physical damage reduction. That's what glyphs do.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    It's not wasted. You're using a glyph to get the benefit of 20% physical damage reduction. That's what glyphs do.
    It should be a minor glyph, honestly. Sometimes it's completely mandatory and that just takes away your options.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It should be a minor glyph, honestly. Sometimes it's completely mandatory and that just takes away your options.
    Yeah it was a very dumb change from Cata. It should have stayed 20/20 baseline, 40% magic with glyph. Having to use a major glyph to have any defense against physical damage, outside of a 5 min bubble, is just silly. Good thing most of our major glyphs are so situational and underwhelming that we can afford to waste a slot.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It should be a minor glyph, honestly. Sometimes it's completely mandatory and that just takes away your options.
    I agree with this. Major glyphs should always bee a 100% buff to whatever skill it effects, none of this BS of it buffing half and nerfing half. Glyph of Exorcism is guilty of it to a lesser extent too. Some glyphs (AW healing) are so underwhelming its sad.
    TV and Judment glyphs are perfect examples of what majors should be, they're buffs to the skills, but unique and a bit fun.

  19. #39
    I love how people keep quoting my listing paladins survivability abilities trying to explain how they all suck.

    First off it was to say retri does have defensive CD's when somebody said they didn't have any at all. whether they suck or not is an entirely different discussion.

    Secondly just because an defensive CD has an counter or an CD isn't an very good argument for saying you don't have defensive CD's. by that logic most classes don't have defensive cool downs. mage ice block? dispel able by warriors and priests and on an 5min CD so not an defensive cool down by that logic etc etc etc.

    I don't at all think paladins are OP I don't think they are UP. they could use a few things. The dps of retri is pathetic without cool downs compared to other classes burst. but in general they aren't that horrible. I just don't think you can say you have absolutely no defensive abilities when you have that list off defensive abilities at your disposal whether they might be good or not.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    What drives people to go to other class' forums and spew ignorance. Every even remotely serious PvPer knows that Ret is the number 1 spec to train in arena, no spec is worse at reducing and avoiding damage. You can read off our spell book all you want, but your arguments have to have some real PvP context to mean anything.
    I'm gonna disagree with that, mostly because not every team has a Warrior or Priest.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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