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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm gonna disagree with that, mostly because not every team has a Warrior or Priest.
    http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/

    Look at the top 10 most popular 3v3 comps... then hang your head in shame because what you said doesn't matter at all when the majority have one or both.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/

    Look at the top 10 most popular 3v3 comps... then hang your head in shame because what you said doesn't matter at all when the majority have one or both.
    So what?

    It doesn't matter if the majority has it or not.

    The majority of Dps specs has a execute Skill as well, your point?

    There are still comps out there that do not have the possibility to remove Divine Shield.

    I'm an Elemental Shaman, my defense CD is a 6sec 40% Reduction, if you want to give away your Divine Shield and Divine Prot for that, have a go.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm an Elemental Shaman, my defense CD is a 6sec 40% Reduction, if you want to give away your Divine Shield and Divine Prot for that, have a go.
    You're getting Shamanistic Rage in 5.2. No complaining allowed anymore.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity.

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec.

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    Except for Devotion Aura and Divine Protection (neither of them being our most powerful defensive spells), the rest are dispelled the moment they are up. So much for survivability.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-01-15 at 10:04 PM.

  5. #45
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    Why do we keep talking about shamans? Ret survivability is trash and its finally about to get some modest buffs. All hybrids have been under attack lately by blizzard, you guys should be encouraged that they are giving hybrids some healing back. Dont be that orphan who gets upset because another orphan might be getting adopted.

  6. #46
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    The most funny thing about all this is

    A ele shaman tries to come with some crappy excuses, not taking into account that:

    1. Their manapool is 300k and ours is 60k(500% difference)

    2. They by that heal more

    3. Every retri paladin that has been complaining since 5.1 hit must be a moron(making us all morons) cause we are pretty OP.

    Really, play a class before you start commenting on the way it plays, smh!

    As for the survivability

    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    I love how people keep quoting my listing paladins survivability abilities trying to explain how they all suck.

    First off it was to say retri does have defensive CD's when somebody said they didn't have any at all. whether they suck or not is an entirely different discussion.

    Secondly just because an defensive CD has an counter or an CD isn't an very good argument for saying you don't have defensive CD's. by that logic most classes don't have defensive cool downs. mage ice block? dispel able by warriors and priests and on an 5min CD so not an defensive cool down by that logic etc etc etc.

    I don't at all think paladins are OP I don't think they are UP. they could use a few things. The dps of retri is pathetic without cool downs compared to other classes burst. but in general they aren't that horrible. I just don't think you can say you have absolutely no defensive abilities when you have that list off defensive abilities at your disposal whether they might be good or not.
    Do you play ret? Defensive CD's? What use is a defensive CD if it gets dispelled within a second? What use is a defensive CD if you have NO BENEFIT of it at all.......I would really love to get Lay On Hands in arena......that would be good for us and that also embraces the use of a Paladin.

    Selfheal/Instant full hp and bubble are the survival trademarks of a paladin. Why would blizzard want to take that away.......it's a big mystery.

    BOTTOM LINE

    The fact that blizzard DOES give us this buff, is a good thing, a step in the right direction. Let's wait and see how it turns out and hope for more buffs in the future or for more nerfs of opposing classes to be equally balanced with us on damage lvls

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    So what?

    It doesn't matter if the majority has it or not.

    The majority of Dps specs has a execute Skill as well, your point?

    There are still comps out there that do not have the possibility to remove Divine Shield.

    I'm an Elemental Shaman, my defense CD is a 6sec 40% Reduction, if you want to give away your Divine Shield and Divine Prot for that, have a go.
    Yes, Elemental sucks, and historically it usually has... so go post suggestions on how to buff it and complain on the official forums, rather than waste time telling us that we should shut up because a couple of other specs are really bad too. Yes, Ret is usually a bit better than Elemental, but that doesn't really say much... it's like telling someone that they should be happy living in poverty because there is someone out there that is a bit poorer, instead of working to solve poverty all together. Stop being a bitter hater, and go solve your own problems rather than block other people's attempts to solve their own. I've done a lot of forum bitching in my time, but I've never wasted time telling holy priests, or arcane mages, or fury warriors, or dps shamans to shut up because I have it bad too...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 12:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    Why do we keep talking about shamans? Ret survivability is trash and its finally about to get some modest buffs. All hybrids have been under attack lately by blizzard, you guys should be encouraged that they are giving hybrids some healing back. Dont be that orphan who gets upset because another orphan might be getting adopted.
    Yeah, healing is nice, but both Ret and Elemental need more utility, off-heals can only do so much. Elemental needs more CC probably, and Ret just needs something special that makes people think "I love that spell, glad there is a Ret here!" Elemental on the other hand has the cool spell that people like , Thunderstorm, but that's pretty much all they have.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-16 at 12:53 AM.

  8. #48
    Yes lets see shall we.

    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post

    okey let's see:

    Divine shield: 8 sec imunity. - Dispelled instantly in most cases

    Divine protection: 40% magical damage reduction for 10 sec. - ONLY magical attacks

    Hand of protection: 10 sec imunity to physical attacks. - ONLY physical. Has forbearance, Cant do anything physical in its duration.

    Devotion aura: 6 sec imunity against silences and interupts and an 20% magical dmg reduction - Long CD, hardly worth it, more for raid than the paladin

    yea I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you that retri paladins have no survivability abilities whatsoever
    fixed

  9. #49
    Pandaren Monk
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    Wait a second. In the most recent blue post in that thread (go check, like 40 minutes ago) - It said Sword of Light says +100% (currently 30%) For Flash Heal. That's a pretty damn sizable buff... that's more than the original +50%?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    That's a pretty damn sizable buff... that's more than the original +50%?
    No, it's a little bit less than 50% total.

    SoL buffs the base healing FoL does without it, so to be accurate.

    It comes around like this:

    Raw FoL = 24500 Average without SoL.
    Live FoL = 35k Average in Malevolent.

    If you were to take the 35000 from live and buff it a straight 50% it'd come out as 52500

    Beta SoL = 100%
    24500 * 100% = 49000 (pretty close to a a straight up 50% buff, but that ain't all)

    51800 * 13% (Rough healing gain from Malevolent Power) = 55370


    Just tossing some numbers out there, right now I can achieve a 57k FoL with Guardian Stacks and Both trinkets up on myself.
    In Beta this cooldown barrage translates to 85500 to 94050 with the Glyph, noncrit, self-cast, Flashes of Light.

    This could mean 300k Supplication FoL crits on teammates before Battle Fatigue. (still a whole bar)
    Last edited by Veliane; 2013-01-16 at 02:56 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Wait a second. In the most recent blue post in that thread (go check, like 40 minutes ago) - It said Sword of Light says +100% (currently 30%) For Flash Heal. That's a pretty damn sizable buff... that's more than the original +50%?
    I'm just guessing but I guess he meant from 130% to 200%. In that case, hallelujah.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    This could mean 300k Supplication FoL crits on teammates before Battle Fatigue. (still a whole bar)
    Except that Selfless Healer is getting nerfed...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Except that Selfless Healer is getting nerfed...
    Not sure if serious, my math is all new, which takes in account the 60% selfless healer.

    Ergo, even with the nerf we're gonna heal much more on others than we do on live.


    With live selfless healer it'd be a 385k FoL Crit.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    Not sure if serious, my math is all new, which takes in account the 60% selfless healer.

    Ergo, even with the nerf we're gonna heal much more on others than we do on live.


    With live selfless healer it'd be a 385k FoL Crit.
    35k*1.5=52.5k*2=105k*1.6=168k. That's not taking pvp power or battle fatigue into account, but your number is waaaay off even from what the pvp power would do.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    35k*1.5=52.5k*2=105k*1.6=168k. That's not taking pvp power or battle fatigue into account, but your number is waaaay off even from what the pvp power would do.
    Don't quit your job over that math.
    If you don't get it, re-read my original post.. Sloooooowly.

    If you still don't get it, then it's not a problem I could fix with further explanation either.

    Hint: try with the last numbers provided.
    Last edited by Veliane; 2013-01-16 at 06:51 AM.

  15. #55
    Brewmaster Brother Evren's Avatar
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    Why is there a shaman venting in the Paladin forums. If anything, shammy will be in a good position in 5.2, so please my totemic friend... Take a chill pill, listen to enya and let us Paladins enjoy what little scraps we are given.
    Great Uther's ghost, it's chasing after us! Squire, do something! Throw rocks at it! I have no plan!

  16. #56
    This buff to Flash of Light ontop of the 25% pvp power healing buff should put us in a good spot when it comes to off healing.

    The only other change I would really like to see is a buff to sustained damage. Right now we only put out serious pressure every 3mins. If we had Divine purpose baseline it would allow us to do good damage in between burst cd's.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    This buff to Flash of Light ontop of the 25% pvp power healing buff should put us in a good spot when it comes to off healing.
    I was very excited about it all... until I saw this.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Sword of Light now reads +30% Word of Glory and +100% Flash of Light. We wanted to reward Flash of Light more, because it's harder and riskier to use.
    For those that don't know about it, WoG is +60% on live.
    They're shifting the healing from WoG to FoL, a spell that sees less frequency with dramatic consequences.

    This turns out to be a nerf.
    I would not take the shift if I could have a word on it.. it's Burst 101... can't stop to cast fuckin FoL...
    Last edited by Veliane; 2013-01-16 at 02:11 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by label strew View Post
    Secondly just because an defensive CD has an counter or an CD isn't an very good argument for saying you don't have defensive CD's.
    Reading comprehension 101.

    When people write "We have no defensive CDs" they don't LITERALLY mean that. Instead they probably mean "We have no defensive CDs worth mentioning here.". Context FTW.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    I was very excited about it all... until I saw this.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Sword of Light now reads +30% Word of Glory and +100% Flash of Light. We wanted to reward Flash of Light more, because it's harder and riskier to use.
    For those that don't know about it, WoG is +60% on live.
    They're shifting the healing from WoG to FoL, a spell that sees less frequency with dramatic consequences.

    This turns out to be a nerf.
    I would not take the shift if I could have a word on it.. it's Burst 101... can't stop to cast fuckin FoL...
    If that is true then that is really horrible. There is no way we could hard cast Flash of Light in rated pvp. Meaning that we would be stuck with waiting for selfless healer to do any real self healing.

    In that case they would need Sword of Light to do 60% more for WoG and 100% more for FoL for us to be good in terms of healing.

  20. #60
    Making Glyph of Avenging Wrath heal 3% per 1sec (up from the pityful 1% every 2) would be great.

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