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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    You're forgetting about piercing arrows. :P

    Anyway this is indeed a nice buff to MM, considering AiS pauses your autoshot as well. Point is we'll want to use AS as much as possible in 5.2 with t15, so I don't really know where this is going...
    Very good point. Piercing shots is pretty good when it comes to this. I forgot about that ability. 30% is a pretty big amount when looking at the numbers. My initial calculations should be a higher dps gain.

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  2. #42
    The Patient Conjor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    and with that mentality Marks will always be lack luster.
    Empty statement is empty. AiS is a horrible choice for a focus dump. Ask any top end raider. The cast time is too long outside of haste effects, even at (2.4 - haste) seconds to be using it all the time over AS and it has always be an issue with either talents or set bonuses.

    With a decent amount of haste you could get the cast to about 1.7-1.8 seconds.
    Last edited by Conjor; 2013-01-15 at 03:08 PM.

  3. #43
    Personally i coulnd`t care less about MM changes / buffs but i think its the right way for the People who missing that "sniper" feeling when playing Marks. Imo the great advantage from BM / SV is the big amount of Magic / Nature Damage that outweights the pure physical dmg from Marks, so MM needs also a raw Damage Buff going along with the reduced cast Time of Aimed Shot.

    What if Steady would do Arcane Damage instead of Physical ?

  4. #44
    This is indeed a nice change but I think with the set bonuses from T15 are going to still put SV far ahead. Marks needs a flat out damage increase.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    So their solution to BM being the FotM is to.... create a new FotM?

    That's a pretty terrible solution. 'Let's force everyone to roll a new spec for absolutely no reason!'

    How about making MM unique and giving it very specific utility that the other specs don't possess? I can't think of anything MM can do better than BM or SV atm. I can think of several things BM and SV can do that are unique to them and useful in a raid.
    Welcome to the life of the Hunter class ever since WoW was started. Its not just Hunters either, many classes go through these fotm changes.

  6. #46
    If anyone still doubts this is a dps increase, here is some maths.

    This is quite a big buff actually. Unless the current target has less health than a boss normally would ( adds, Spirit Kings normal or heroic....) a marks hunter will be casting aimed shot outside of the first 30 seconds of the fight. This means, you will be aimed shotting during CA phase without rapid fire up. This impact can be mitigated on fights where you lust on the pull as opposed to another critical moment but it isn't reliable.

    Calculations:
    Unhasted (9.25% haste from gear)=1.25*1.1*1.0925=1.502
    Rapid Fire=1.25*1.1*1.4*1.0925= 2.103
    Bloodlust=1.25*1.1*1.3*1.0925=1.953
    Both=1.25*1.1*1.3*1.4*1.0925=2.734

    Aimed Shot at 2.9 sec cast
    Without RF/Lust=2.9/1.5021875= 1.93s
    With RF=2.9/2.103= 1.38s
    With Lust=2.9/1.953= 1.48s
    With Both=2.9/2.734= 1.06s


    Aimed Shot at 2.5 sec cast
    Without RF/Lust=2.5/1.5021875= 1.66s
    With RF=2.5/2.103= 1.19s
    With Lust=2.5/1.953= 1.28s
    With Both=2.5/2.734= .91s

    Notice that the only number that falls below our GCD is when you pop both Bloodlust AND Rapid Fire with the changes coming in 5.2. Its a non issue anyway since you shouldn't stack them!

    If only it ended there! When rapid fire comes back up in a boss fight, if you weren't already, you can dump focus with aimed shot! This is huge.


    From the EJ thread on marks, subsection Aimed Shot vs Arcane Shot.

    When not in the CA phase:
    - When AI cast time is > 1.4s, use AS
    - When AI cast time is < 1.3s, use AI
    - When AI cast time is between 1.3s and 1.4s, the choice of focus dump is preferential (I usually switch at a little below 1.35s)


    Given the calculations above, marks hunters will, come 5.2, use Aimed Shot under Bloodlust/RF outside of CA phase, otherwise, Arcane shot. If there are haste trinkets, or alot of haste on gear, its possible we may Aimed Shot instead of Arcane Shot 100% of the time.
    Last edited by Nangz; 2013-01-15 at 04:30 PM.

  7. #47
    Still not convinced, i'm sorry... i'm staying as bm/surv,. Wtb TRI SPEC >:I

  8. #48
    Just an FYI, I just added in the PTR support option for aimed shot on femaledwarf.com so you can simulate it there. Note that you may want to tweak the shot priority settings for when to use aimed shot to get a better idea of the results (the default settings for a 2.9 aimed shot may not be ideal for a 2.5).

    Also with regards to simulationcraft, you can tweak the rules for when to cast aimed shot in the profile to better control it. I haven't checked yet with Lokrick though to see if he needs to make any manual tweaks to support the PTR change or if it would be supported automatically.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    Just an FYI, I just added in the PTR support option for aimed shot on femaledwarf.com so you can simulate it there. Note that you may want to tweak the shot priority settings for when to use aimed shot to get a better idea of the results (the default settings for a 2.9 aimed shot may not be ideal for a 2.5).

    Also with regards to simulationcraft, you can tweak the rules for when to cast aimed shot in the profile to better control it. I haven't checked yet with Lokrick though to see if he needs to make any manual tweaks to support the PTR change or if it would be supported automatically.
    Thanks for doing that.

    I'm still playing around with Femaledwarf, but right now it's showing that with my current gear (3045 haste rating) and full buffs MM is 108k, still behind BM's 119k and SV's 112k. My reforges are not optimized for MM.

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    Just an FYI, I just added in the PTR support option for aimed shot on femaledwarf.com so you can simulate it there. Note that you may want to tweak the shot priority settings for when to use aimed shot to get a better idea of the results (the default settings for a 2.9 aimed shot may not be ideal for a 2.5).

    Also with regards to simulationcraft, you can tweak the rules for when to cast aimed shot in the profile to better control it. I haven't checked yet with Lokrick though to see if he needs to make any manual tweaks to support the PTR change or if it would be supported automatically.
    Thanks for this, I tried earlier but it didn't seem to have the "Enable PTR" button :/

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunba View Post
    Blizzard don't buff MM
    Omg blizzard why do you ignore MM

    Blizzard buffs MM
    Omg blizzard why didn't you just add a flat damage increase
    That doesn't change the fact that MM will still most likely be behind SV and BM.

  12. #52
    Piercing Shots needs to apply to Arcane Shot OR apply to non-crit Chimera/AiS/SS.

  13. #53
    Another minor point that hasn't being considered yet is that the Marked for Death glyph is being made baseline, thus freeing a glyph slot. AiS glyph (castable while moving) looks pretty good now.

    For those saying MM will still be behind, put up some numbers. Or could it be that you anticipate playing a spec you don't like, like all of us who feel forced into BM? If anything, this change as well as the recent SV buff indicates Blizz is trying to balance all 3 specs.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Another minor point that hasn't being considered yet is that the Marked for Death glyph is being made baseline, thus freeing a glyph slot. AiS glyph (castable while moving) looks pretty good now.

    For those saying MM will still be behind, put up some numbers. Or could it be that you anticipate playing a spec you don't like, like all of us who feel forced into BM? If anything, this change as well as the recent SV buff indicates Blizz is trying to balance all 3 specs.
    AiS was already really good to take since most fights require movement during CA phase.

  15. #55
    Assuming you were already MM, yes, albeit at the expense of one of the more standard glyphs (MfD, Animal Bond, Det). Since the thread is discussing MM in 5.2, I'm specifically pointing out that you no longer have to sacrifice a better glyph.

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire
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    It's been a long time since I've played MM (back in Wrath), but doesn't it usually scale better as weapons come out, since it has more attacks based upon % of weapon damage? Just curious, not sure if this is still the case or not...

  17. #57
    Keyboard Turner payasso's Avatar
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    hunters just need to be buff......

  18. #58
    more buffs for the marksmanship master race plz

  19. #59
    I'd like to see a "Seasoned Archer" buff for MM (similar to Arms passive Seasoned Soldier") which increase its dmg by 10%-15% that would go well with MM as a "Sniper" spec.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I have very mixed feelings about this. I wouldn't say this is a small meaningless buff but I have my doubts about this actually being anything major. Maybe when we reach certain haste levels where we can spam Aimed Shot instead of Arcane Shot Marksmanship will catch up quite rapidly but before we can see what kind of gear tier 15 will bring us that's hard to tell at this point. It's nice during the Careful Aim phase as well as when we blow Rapid Fire but I think it merely looks better on paper than it will be in practice. I am quite excited though, spamming Arcanes as fillers for Marksmanship always felt wrong to me.



    Oh if you think armor penetration in Wrath was good, you should have seen Marksmanship in tier 11 after Aimed Shot got buffed. It was hotfixed within 3 weeks IIRC but the damage was so insane that it was normal to just don't do anything besides spamming Aimed Shot. People were doing 180k DPS on a single target dummy with the 100% crit chance on Aimed Shot. While pointless to compare dummy damage, just remember that this was at the start of tier 11 when people had blue gear.

    Anyway pointless and old news.
    Wow, that sounds like it was a blast haha. So, is that part of the reason MM is so off right now? Something got screwed up and they didn't fix it?

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