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  1. #1

    Current PvP gear ruins world pvp

    So Wow is mainly a pve game. The focus is clearly on fighting mobs one way or another. All the dailies, dungeons, LFR, raids give pve gear. You only get pvp gear from grinding battlegrounds.

    Here is the problem: all the extra pvp stats introduced in MoP make a player in pve gear basically a free kill. More so than in any expansion ever before. This is a huge problem in world pvp.

    Is the only solution to be able to survive out in the open grinding battlegrounds with bots?

  2. #2
    You have to pve to get pve gear and pvp to get pvp gear. Must be a very difficult concept to grasp.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    You have to pve to get pve gear and pvp to get pvp gear. Must be a very difficult concept to grasp.
    PvE and PvP aren't the same gametype. Must be a very difficult concept to grasp.

    And yes, Blizzard essentially lied about "making it easier for pve players to get into pvp". With pvp power, it's harder than ever for a pve player to get geared in pvp because the damage dealt and reduction of power and resilience are bigger than ever (pvp power essentially negates baseline pvp resilience and then some).
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  4. #4
    I don't know if there is a such thing as honor gear anymore - but when I played I could trade justice for honor and I bought some introduction pvp gear with that. Mostly you will find that pvp gear, especially the high end, is only gonna be gotten through pvping.

    But good news! now it is just a grind for points, they are removing all gating stat requirements to get the good gear (i think except weapons).

    Also there is always new crafted gear at the beginning of an expansion for pvp - not usually very expensive either.
    Last edited by slime; 2013-01-20 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Is the only solution to be able to survive out in the open grinding battlegrounds with bots?
    I'm guessing PvP server.

    In which case, grind PvP from within your city.

    You mentioned you hate PvP grinding, so grind PvE from within your city and convert Justice to Honor to get PvP gear.
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  6. #6
    The worst thing Blizzard has done is completely remove incentives to get better at this game.

    Making it so that you can trade jp for hp means you don't become better as a player as you gear up.

    Making the ilvl gaps absolutley massive and adding in pvp power makes it essentially impossible for you to learn anything while you gear through pvp because of how fast you'll be killed.

    Removing rating requirements from all pieces like it was in wotlk and tbc made it so that you played for capping points instead of playing for getting to a certain rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    So Wow is mainly a pve game. The focus is clearly on fighting mobs one way or another. All the dailies, dungeons, LFR, raids give pve gear. You only get pvp gear from grinding battlegrounds.

    Here is the problem: all the extra pvp stats introduced in MoP make a player in pve gear basically a free kill. More so than in any expansion ever before. This is a huge problem in world pvp.

    Is the only solution to be able to survive out in the open grinding battlegrounds with bots?
    If only we had some type of servers where you aren't forced to engage in open world pvp...

    Oh wait.

  8. #8
    I'm so tired of it...
    Haven't you thought that every freshly-dinged lvl 90 pvp-player is a like a pve-player wanting to start pvp? You just gotta take the beating a few times.
    As for world pvp, DEAL WITH IT. I, personally, often go on a ganking spree, especially targetting pve-geared players, just because I dislike PVE.
    It's fair and square - you grind pve to get better performance in pve, I grind pvp to get better performace in pvp.
    Btw. I also have to deal with bots farming random BGs - they make it unplayable for me - you don't have to deal with that kinda crap.
    Stop crying and man up.

  9. #9
    Flaks, would you kindly shut the fuck up when you have no clue what you're talking about? This guide explains how PvP power interacts with Resilience. Even fully geared with full PvP power gems a player will still do less damage to another player than to a NPC.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    You have to pve to get pve gear and pvp to get pvp gear. Must be a very difficult concept to grasp.
    Actually the OP kinda has a point. While I couldn't care less about World PvP, the changes to PvP gear in MoP make killing other players without any PvP gear on even easier than it's been before. Without getting into the new stats themselves the disparity between CP and Honor gear alone is a joke. Blizzard made changes this expansion with the idea that players new to PvP who wanted to try it out wouldn't be getting blown up every five seconds, such as giving everyone a baseline resilience, and it's clearly not working.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    (pvp power essentially negates baseline pvp resilience and then some).
    nope, you never deal more dmg to a player than a mob because pvp power is counted into the attackers outgoing dmg then eaten up by resilience.

    attack that does 100k dmg, does 150k dmg to a player target with 50% pvp power and gets reduced to 90k by baseline 40% resilience.

    they shulda just implemented straight up -40% dmg when it comes to pvp, which would cause way less of an issue when someone has pve gear versus full pvp gear.

  12. #12
    Can't every class get access to 450 crafted PVP gear ? Also Sha drops pvp gear.

    Also massive "lol" at people who just talk crap and don't understand baseline res & pvp power

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 08nolanni View Post
    Can't every class get access to 450 crafted PVP gear ?
    I bought that for my Spriest when I dinged 90. Still got facerolled. It's the biggest waste of money mid-season when everyone has half-full Glad + weapons.
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  14. #14
    The Patient Principe's Avatar
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    Then cap conquest if you want to backpeddle in world pvp, PVE guy.

    Hard concept.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    Well its not easy
    Yes i can cap the conquest on mater of few hours coz i`m little arena playing noob but still i feel like i`m forced to do it
    Do you will feel good if you need to carry LFR gear to be able to do some daily stuff around the word ???

    BTW i have like 7 toons atm and dint see a single pvp gear piece from Sha which i farm and use coins with alts there every week

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Here is the problem: all the extra pvp stats introduced in MoP make a player in pve gear basically a free kill. More so than in any expansion ever before. This is a huge problem in world pvp.
    Sigh.

    1) A PVE geared player has always been a free kill for a PVP geared player. This has ALWAYS been the case.

    2) MoP introduced base resil for players not wearing PVP gear, so if anything MoP has done more to mitigate this problem than any previous expansion.

    3) Yes being caught in PVE gear by some PVP geared ganking jerkass sucks. But it's hardly new.
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  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Schaapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post

    2) MoP introduced base resil for players not wearing PVP gear, so if anything MoP has done more to mitigate this problem than any previous expansion.
    This has pretty much 0 effect if the opponent has some pvp power.
    My druid has base resilience, a rogue did 320k-ish dmg in one killing spree. I was in catform(I opened first) and when I manage to change to bearform I died.
    My paladin has base resilience and was killed by a holy paladin spamming denounce and holy shock.

    So, one on one, base resilience means squat for survival.
    Surrounded by idiots

  18. #18
    The Patient Principe's Avatar
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    Then dont engage in pvp if you are too ignorant to get some pvp gear for doing dailies. Also what do you expect on pvp a server. God forbid you learn to pvp.

  19. #19
    It's not just PvP gear, I compiled a list of problems with world PvP now, as compared to previous expansions. This is taken from a post I made on the official forums on a thread about griefing. I did not start said thread but felt I could add to it due to recent experiences.

    All I know is there definitely needs to be something done at least to prevent people from camping quest hubs. I was camped for over an hour and the entrance to Valley of The Four Winds earlier today, so I logged onto another character to start Jade Forest. There were 7-8 max level horde camping Paw'Don village so it was impossible to do that. Logged back onto my hunter several hours later only to find that the same horde that were there this morning were still camping, and according to Gen chat were preventing anyone from questing at all, with a group of at least 10 at Halfhill and 2-3 at the other quest hubs.

    When I started on a PvP server I knew the risks and everything else that comes with open pvp, however getting ganked by several people who drop down from the sky and one shot you was not one of them. At least when we were restricted to ground mounts, low levels had a chance to escape by ressing behind a hill or other terrain obstacle. Now however you get ganked then the ganker just hovers high enough so that no one can retaliate, and can see where you res no matter where you try.

    If anyone can prove that someone with a 310% speed mount, 60% extra damage to players, 60% damage reduction from players and a weapon that hits for 10-14k and 600k health is a fair matchup to someone with 600 health with a weapon that hits for 25-37 then I think I can safely say that most complaints would stop. As it is however you have 0 chance against someone higher level than you, barring exceptional skill at low level vs low level, even then there can only be a few levels difference.

    To the people who say PvP existed before in pre-BC, BC and Wrath; we all know it did but there are some key differences.

    1. The difference between a 60 or 70 and someone 5 levels lower was far less. Now as soon as you hit 90 you basically become unkillable to someone even one level lower since you have about 50% more health and damage, and several hundred times the health and damage of someone 20 levels lower.

    2. Low levels had a chance to escape due to no flying mounts in lower level zones.

    3. Gear did not decide a winner, now someone in full Conquest gear can hit buttons at random and beat anyone in lesser gear. The difference between tiers was a matter of maybe 5-10% DPS and health for most people, this tier we are doing 90k+ and the next tier is expected to break 110k, this is almost a 25% increase.

    4. Burst was not nearly as high as it is now, in pre-BC my brother and I at level 40ish were able to kill level 60's that attempted to gank us. Now someone can just drop from the sky fire a random AoE and you die. (as always there were exceptions, eg instant death from multiple Windfury procs)

    5. Since quests were not as streamlined, getting ganked meant it was time to try and find another quest area. Now since 99% of quests in zones require you to complete chains from hubs, or even from the previous zone if horde are camping say the entrance to Valley of The Four Winds no alliance on the server can get past that point since they cannot do the intro quest. This also means they cannot do many of the quests in Karasang or Kun Lai, since the prerequisites are in Valley of the Four Winds, after the initial quest there. I realize that some quests are doable without the intro chains, however phasing issues may prevent you from completing other quests later.

    6. In Pre-BC if you could not escape your ganker you could res at the graveyard and then hide somewhere until res sickness wore off, now since graveyards are closer to quest hubs, and gankers can fly you can res and have them jump on you seconds later so now not only are you being camped it probably cost you over 100g. Flying was a problem in BC and Wrath as well, but not nearly as pronounced as many players sat in Shatt/Dalaran/Org. Couple this with the fact that once you had a max level you could get flying on alts earlier so you could evade the higher levels.

    7. In Pre-BC, there was little reason for high levels to be in low level areas, which is probably why world pvp happened at places close to capital cities. In BC, when dailies were added, most of them took place in areas that required a flying mount or max level zones, so low levels were not present to gank. Wrath dailies took place in dungeons, and Cata dailies took place in cities for the most part. In Mists, dailies are spread around the continent meaning more higher levels traveling around, hence more ganking from people that if they could sit in a city probably would continue to do so.

    8. World PvP Objectives. In BC there were 2 major pvp areas, the towers in Terrokar, and the town in Nagrand. Wrath had Wintergrasp and Cata, Tol'Barad. Many high level players would fight over these objectives, with the lack of actual objectives and a requirement to be outside cities to do dailies and get faction rep, it seems the players have created their own, such as "Let's see if we can hold Halfhill or Paw'Don village for several hours just to stop the other faction from leveling". The move of certain vendors to the world also means that you often find several of the opposite faction camping there to prevent you from buying gear.

    9. The Community in general. Back in Pre-BC there was a troll rogue who used to hang out in Lakeshire, he was notorious for ganking low levels. At one point he had a guild that supported him in his ganks. In turn when low levels called for help many high levels from SW would come and fight off the horde intruders. Now if you ask for help all you get is "l2 play you noob" or "deal with it".

    10. Added PvP Power and Resilience to gear. This means a low level or even a new level 90 will be taking extra damage from someone with PvP power while doing reduced damage to them because of PvP Resilience. Having 50% less health while simultaneously taking around 30% more damage, and doing 60% less damage makes it basically impossible to fight back. As I stated in section 4, when my brother and I were at level 40 in Pre-BC we were able to defend ourselves from level 60's. This was because we had around 3000 health and a 60 might have had 5000 and only 20-30% more damage than us. Now this would be equivalent to a level 60 fighting a level 90, so 7k health vs 400k with damage values being at least 500 times higher.

    One last thing, before anyone brings up server transfers again. I have played on this server for almost 7 years, and everyone I know in game is also on this server. It would be hard for me or anyone else in this position to transfer, not to mention the $250 cost of moving 10 characters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 03:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Sigh.

    1) A PVE geared player has always been a free kill for a PVP geared player. This has ALWAYS been the case.
    In Pre-BC and BC players in PvE gear had a good chance to bear PvP geared people. This was because originally PvP gear did not have resilience or PvP power. Grand Marshal's Gear was essentially equivalent to raid gear. In BC they added resilience, however unlike now it only reduced chance to be crit. "As of Patch 4.0.1, resilience no longer reduces the chance to receive a critical strike. Prior to that patch, 1% resilience would've given a player 1% less chance to be critically struck." taken from wowpedia.

    Also as stated in the above post, in section 4. My Brother and I were able to kill PvP geared players that were level 60 when we were questing at level 40. This was before the addition of summoning stones, and later LFG, when you had to run everywhere and many times you would get ganked on the way to a dungeon.

    EDIT: As the poster below has added, there have definitely been overpowered pieces of PvE gear used in PvP, eg Unheeded Warning http://www.wowhead.com/item=59520, which allowed Rogues and Feral Druids to burst someone down in a second. if they were lucky with procs.
    Last edited by Zergin8r; 2013-01-21 at 08:45 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    1) A PVE geared player has always been a free kill for a PVP geared player. This has ALWAYS been the case.
    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. PvE weapons (especially melee weapons) plus some overpowered heroic trinkets have been widely used in pvp to devastating effect since the game came out. That's why Blizz slapped pvp power on pvp gear. To take the pve gear out of pvp. And to their credit, it has been a success so far.

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