New solace mechanic /discuss

[Washuwa]

Solace and Insanity (New) Discipline, Holy: You gain the Power Word: Solace ability. Shadow: When cast on a target that has three of your Shadow damage-over-time spells applied, your Mind Flay gains the insanity effect. Strike an enemy with the power of the heavens, dealing [ 1,136 + 111% of Spell Power ] Holy damage and an additional [ 7 + 3.12% of Spell Power ] Holy damage over 7 sec and restoring 1% of maximum mana. Replaces Holy Fire. Assault the target's mind with Shadow energy, causing 6,294 Shadow damage over 3 sec and slowing their movement speed by 50%. Priest - LvL 45 Talent.


thoughts?

[davie]

I can see its to be linked to mindflay... but i cant figure out how? :S

[Deleted]

seems that when your target has all 3 dots up, mind flay hits twice as hard.

[Bullcephus]

The question will be is mindflay considered a damage over time spell for this. If it is, this basically increases mindflay's damage when the target has pain and VT.

[Deleted]

Just speculating (and this sounds really silly, but wouldn't surprise me:P) but maybe insanity gives you a buff (if you use it with all dots up) that makes your next mind-flay apply a dot?

seems that when your target has all 3 dots up, mind flay hits twice as hard.

This does seem more likely, and might make our rotation a bit more interesting, I kinda like it.

[Lopina]

Just speculating (and this sounds really silly, but wouldn't surprise me:P) but maybe insanity gives you a buff (if you use it with all dots up) that makes your next mind-flay apply a dot?


and might make our rotation a bit more interesting

Not rly. We'll just need to (while keeping SW:P and VT on target) apply DP and then toss ~2 Mind Flays and then continue with our normal rotation.

And, I might be wrong, but this doesn't seem like a burst to me, more like a periodic Mind Flay buff, which is, well, kinda cheap.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that we keep SW:P and VT at all times on boss, and, also, that we can squeeze 2 full Mind Flays into 1 DP duration.
Let's also assume we're using ToF and not DI as our talent to keep it simple.

In normal part of the fight, we get 1 Orb every 8 seconds, meaning, we get a third orb 17.5 seconds into fight, and then cast DP, which invokes GCD. After that we cast 2 Insanity Mind Flays and the process is done 24 seconds into the fight. Now, if I'm not wrong, we get 2 Insanity Mind Flays per 24 seconds, and if we assume that the Insanity also doubles Spell Power scaling from 50% to 100% (Mind Flay), and that one Mind Flay tick does 12k damage, we get a damage increase of 2 * 3 * 12k = 72k more damage over 24 seconds, which is a 3k DPS increase.

Unless I interpreted something wrong, this seems like a cheap trick from Blizzard. If I have interpreted something wrong and this talent actually proves much better, I apologize in advance.

[Deleted]

Depends on how an amplified mind flay matches up to say mind blast. Not saying it'll make a huge difference but anything that makes our single target rotation more interesting is good in my eyes.

[Meaks]

Are you guys thinking this is a passive buff for mind flays with 3 dots on target? To me it sounds like it is a casted ability still - so it'd be:
Cast DP
Cast Insanity
Spam mind flay until DP falls off
- UNLESS: DI procs, SW:D is off cd, MB is off cd, need to refresh a dot (which has to be done right as the dot ends now since we'll be back into wotlk style dot clipping with new 2pc bonus)

Though it doesn't mention a duration, so maybe I'm just reading it wrong. Or it's only 1 mind flay. Either way it seems underwhelming, costing the extra gcd or not.

[Deleted]

Not rly. We'll just need to (while keeping SW:P and VT on target) apply DP and then toss ~2 Mind Flays and then continue with our normal rotation.

And, I might be wrong, but this doesn't seem like a burst to me, more like a periodic Mind Flay buff, which is, well, kinda cheap.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that we keep SW:P and VT at all times on boss, and, also, that we can squeeze 2 full Mind Flays into 1 DP duration.
Let's also assume we're using ToF and not DI as our talent to keep it simple.

In normal part of the fight, we get 1 Orb every 8 seconds, meaning, we get a third orb 17.5 seconds into fight, and then cast DP, which invokes GCD. After that we cast 2 Insanity Mind Flays and the process is done 24 seconds into the fight. Now, if I'm not wrong, we get 2 Insanity Mind Flays per 24 seconds, and if we assume that the Insanity also doubles Spell Power scaling from 50% to 100% (Mind Flay), and that one Mind Flay tick does 12k damage, we get a damage increase of 2 * 3 * 12k = 72k more damage over 24 seconds, which is a 3k DPS increase.

Unless I interpreted something wrong, this seems like a cheap trick from Blizzard. If I have interpreted something wrong and this talent actually proves much better, I apologize in advance.

You are missing the point of the changes i think. Blizzard is not trying to buff your DPS by giving you these changes, they are trying to give you a choice between this and the 2 other talents, as the old shadow word: insanity was horrible, so they reworked it.

[Kaesebrezen]

Are you guys thinking this is a passive buff for mind flays with 3 dots on target?

It is a passive buff. 3 DoTs on the target (VT, SW:P and DP - MF doesn't count here), MF is replaced by Insanity - dealing double damage and getting a new visual:

[Deleted]

Very intresting indeed, wonder if it will be any good for pvp it could make our burst even better right?
only down side when you dont take FDCL feels very odd

[Aleaa]

dealing double damage and getting a new visual:

50% more then mf

[icest]

I find interesting one with empowered mind flay with Insanity.

1. Casting empowered mind flay.
2. Casting another spell while channeling.
3. Channeling cancelled, another spell start casting, but empowered mind flay still deals damage with debuff.

Bug? or intended?

[Deleted]

Very intresting indeed, wonder if it will be any good for pvp it could make our burst even better right?
only down side when you dont take FDCL feels very odd

Can't imagine it being superior to fdcl in any pvp circumstances. Idk if it's tuned properly but I suppose it's intended to be the best option for single target dps fights while flcd comes ahead on multidotting/heavy movement.

[yurano]

Not rly. We'll just need to (while keeping SW:P and VT on target) apply DP and then toss ~2 Mind Flays and then continue with our normal rotation.

Actually, it seems like the correct rotation is: VT > SWP > MB > 1 orb DP > MF

With Insanity up, my MF's DPSC is the same as my DPS. (PvP gear 20304 SP, Haste 17.10%, Crit 8.26%, Mastery 37.48%) This might change with PvE gear in a raid.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that we keep SW:P and VT at all times on boss, and, also, that we can squeeze 2 full Mind Flays into 1 DP duration.

We can squeeze in DP duration + 2 ticks of MF due to the non-rolling status of Insanity. The calculation is num_ticks_insanity = floor(DP_duration/MF_tick_time,1) + 2

Basically I can maintain 100% uptime of Insanity between MB's CDs as long as I'm careful not to refresh VT/SWP near the end of DP, cutting into my extra two ticks of Insanity.

[marathal]

When cast on a target that has three of your Shadow damage-over-time spells applied, your Mind Flay gains the insanity effect

VT, SwP, DP up, then you need to cast Insanity, then MF gains the Insanity effect for 3 seconds. Causing 6,294 Shadow damage over 3 sec, not 6294 per tic. Going to guesstimate about a 20% boost to 1 full channel of MF, and only when you are able to get all 3 Dots up.

Yeah, think our other options may still be better. I will wait for numbers to get crunched. Good start, expect it to change a few times more.

[yurano]

Yeah, think our other options may still be better. I will wait for numbers to get crunched. Good start, expect it to change a few times more.

In my brief 10 minutes of testing on PTR, I've been able to do more DPS (+4%) with 1 Orb DP + Insanity Spam once I updated Gnosis to track Mind Flay (Insanity) ticks. By the way, the spell ID of MF Insanity is 129197.

I'm using mastery heavy malevolent gear.

For some reason, MF (Insanity) doesn't show up as benefiting from haste. Probably a bug.

PS - My DPS under Insanity spam (no Shadowfiend) is ~45K. My standard Mind Flay (no procs) ticks for 13400. With Insanity boost 100%, haste 17.1%, crit 8.26% and mastery 37.4%, my Mind Flay (Insanity) DPSC is ~46.7K. My true DPS is probably lower because of MB DPSC and my skill.

[zsun]

Now the question is that is it better to cast DP at 1 orb to maximize insanity mind flay uptime?
Before we always cast DP at 3 orbs due to GCD savings since the damage of DP scales linearly with the amount of orbs consumed. But keep in mind now that casting DP at 1 orb means a 6 second dot every 9.5 seconds. which means Insanity Mind Flay will be pretty much available most of the time.

or is it still better to cast DP at 3 orbs?

[Kreuz Kontrol]

The talent still looks awfully meh to me, but I absolutely love the spell animation. It's like a blue version of a Warlock spell. DO WANT PLX!

[yurano]

Now the question is that is it better to cast DP at 1 orb to maximize insanity mind flay uptime?

or is it still better to cast DP at 3 orbs?

I tried going DP 3 orb and my DPS tanked to 38-39K.

My FDCL DPS is roughly 43-44K.

My 1 orb Insanity DPS is 45-45.5K

It'd be great if someone else could confirm my results. I'm sitting some 50 ft away from a wireless router so my latency is awful. I cast the wrong spell every 20s or so, sometimes affecting my ability to game Insanity.