1. #1

    Warlock's Soul Leech change should have happened to Monk's Healing Elixir

    Soul Leech is a warlock talent that heals you every time a certain single-targeting ability damages an opponent.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108370
    In patch 5.2, it will change from healing you to placing an absorb on you.

    Ive really been wanting this for monk's Healing Elixirs and if anything it would make more sense to me to give it to monks than warlocks. It can be hard to control healing elixir since it always procs every 18 seconds even if you are at full health where soul leech heals a portion of your damage so it's evenly smoothed out.

    It's cool that Healing Elixir will get a slight buff but I still only see it being most popular for pve mw

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    It's cool that Healing Elixir will get a slight buff but I still only see it being most popular for pve mw
    Even for PvE MW, I still won't be getting it. The other two talents are clear winners.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Even for PvE MW, I still won't be getting it. The other two talents are clear winners.
    Thank you for reinforcing my statement.

    but actually there are fights where you wont need diffuse magic or dampen harm as much as free heals/absorb is always useful in any fight

  4. #4
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    tbh I use Healing Elixir's far more often than I thought I would. Especially in the current tier there are alot of places where the boss doesn't hit for 20%+ of your health, and doesn't deal melee damage, so DH and DM are both fairly useless, in those situations the heal from HE is godly.

    However I do really like your idea, I would be happy if they swapped the heal for an absorb, as HE does tend to overheal ALOT, which is annoying.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Thank you for reinforcing my statement.

    but actually there are fights where you wont need diffuse magic or dampen harm as much as free heals/absorb is always useful in any fight
    No, they're not "always useful"

    Healing is only useful if you actually need it. And most healing you don't, actually. At best, these heals can only be counted on to slightly increase the group mana efficiency of all of your healers, because you get free heals that then don't have to be healed. But a lot of times, that healing isn't actually providing any benefit. If you drink your tea and get healed, but you were about to get hit with a Prayer of Healing, and now that PoH overheals, then you didn't actually gain any benefit from the tea. The priest still spent the same mana, and the health totals are still the same afterward.

    Furthermore, the things that kill you usually aren't slowly bleeding out health that an extra little bit from the tea would have saved you from. Usually it's things like an add getting loose, or getting hit by a major damage mechanic, that sort of thing.

    Healing Elixirs, for a mistweaver, is really not a useful thing in pretty much every situation I can think of. There are a few really extreme edge cases, but the idea that I should give up diffuse magic or dampen harm up for it is nonsense.

    It's not that it's that a bad talent, it's that it's completely not in the same league as the other talents competing with it.

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Dampen harm is borked. Diffuse magic is situational and healing elixirs is the only thing that works 100%. Yet it's still not as good as the old Dampen Harm.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Loktarok View Post
    Dampen harm is borked. Diffuse magic is situational and healing elixirs is the only thing that works 100%. Yet it's still not as good as the old Dampen Harm.
    It is situational, but those situations happen a lot of the time.

  8. #8
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    I would like it to be a smart heal/absorb. If you are not full you would heal but if it over heals it will turn into an absorb. The only problem I can see is if you let the absorb stack.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    No, they're not "always useful"

    Healing is only useful if you actually need it. And most healing you don't, actually. At best, these heals can only be counted on to slightly increase the group mana efficiency of all of your healers, because you get free heals that then don't have to be healed. But a lot of times, that healing isn't actually providing any benefit. If you drink your tea and get healed, but you were about to get hit with a Prayer of Healing, and now that PoH overheals, then you didn't actually gain any benefit from the tea. The priest still spent the same mana, and the health totals are still the same afterward.

    Furthermore, the things that kill you usually aren't slowly bleeding out health that an extra little bit from the tea would have saved you from. Usually it's things like an add getting loose, or getting hit by a major damage mechanic, that sort of thing.

    Healing Elixirs, for a mistweaver, is really not a useful thing in pretty much every situation I can think of. There are a few really extreme edge cases, but the idea that I should give up diffuse magic or dampen harm up for it is nonsense.

    It's not that it's that a bad talent, it's that it's completely not in the same league as the other talents competing with it.
    Dampen Harm and Diffuse Magic are on a 1.5 mn CD.
    Healing Elixir is on an 18 sec CD healing 10% as of 5.1
    So let's break it down for you.

    At 18sec/10%, you can heal 50% of your max life within that 1.5mn CD... if it always full heals. Let's say the raid fight lasts eight minutes, that equals to 250% extra health. Unless you are using Dampen Harm and DIffuse Magic EVERYTIME on CD (if the fight actually calls for it), those extra free heals are more worth it to me.

    And as you were saying it could overheal, if it is changed to an absorb, it's always a guarantee 250% free heal in an 8 minute fight. And if my math is correct it will be 555% of your health in an 8 minute fight in 5.2.

    I can see it not being as useful in dungeons, scenarios, lfr, but when you're doing normals or heroic, every extra heal is useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I would like it to be a smart heal/absorb. If you are not full you would heal but if it over heals it will turn into an absorb. The only problem I can see is if you let the absorb stack.
    i like this idea too
    Last edited by bigfootbigd; 2013-01-15 at 05:41 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Dampen Harm and Diffuse Magic are on a 1.5 mn CD.
    Healing Elixir is on an 18 sec CD healing 10% as of 5.1
    So let's break it down for you.

    At 18sec/10%, you can heal 50% of your max life within that 1.5mn CD... if it always full heals. Let's say the raid fight lasts eight minutes, that equals to 250% extra health. Unless you are using Dampen Harm and DIffuse Magic EVERYTIME on CD (if the fight actually calls for it), those extra free heals are more worth it to me.

    And as you were saying it could overheal, if it is changed to an absorb, it's always a guarantee 250% free heal in an 8 minute fight. And if my math is correct it will be 555% of your health in an 8 minute fight in 5.2.

    I can see it not being as useful in dungeons, scenarios, lfr, but when you're doing normals or heroic, every extra heal is useful.



    i like this idea too
    But there was a valid point earier in this thread. If your raid takes dmg and your healer start using group heals you using healing elixier wont change anything then to bumb overhal stats. Either yours or the healer ones.
    So most the time you wont get any near that healing. At least not when considering raidmana saved and thats the only important thing about healing elixier. It wont help you stay alive on its own but it can help save your healer mana. In reality it barely ever does.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    tbh I use Healing Elixir's far more often than I thought I would. Especially in the current tier there are alot of places where the boss doesn't hit for 20%+ of your health, and doesn't deal melee damage, so DH and DM are both fairly useless, in those situations the heal from HE is godly.

    However I do really like your idea, I would be happy if they swapped the heal for an absorb, as HE does tend to overheal ALOT, which is annoying.
    Godly, eh? 10% of max health every ~20 sec ideally (realistically less, but let's go with it) at ~400k raid-buffed is 120k a minute, or 2k hps; essentially nothing. That's assuming zero overhealing, of course, which is pretty unlikely.

    It may situationally be better than the alternatives, in situations where those two alternatives don't actually do anything, but 'better than nothing' isn't what I'd call "godly".

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    But there was a valid point earier in this thread. If your raid takes dmg and your healer start using group heals you using healing elixier wont change anything then to bumb overhal stats. Either yours or the healer ones.
    So most the time you wont get any near that healing. At least not when considering raidmana saved and thats the only important thing about healing elixier. It wont help you stay alive on its own but it can help save your healer mana. In reality it barely ever does.
    thats why I'm saying if it becomes an absorb like soul leech, it protects you from inc damage so it works in a way like dampen harm, which is still broken, and not overhealing other healers which was the point of the thread to begin with, not comparing it to the other talent, till someone threw the whole subject off

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I'd be for it if the absorb worked vs all damage like a disc priest bubble. The overhealing from the fact you are going to be using Brew's based on things besides the fact you are missing HP makes it a very unappealing talent. I only take it as WW if I know for sure there aren't raid damage phases that will benefit from the other two talents. For BrM DH and DM are on your bar basically 100% of the time.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    At 18sec/10%, you can heal 50% of your max life within that 1.5mn CD
    But Healing Elixirs should be a on-use 50% heal with a 1.5 min cd. Il would make it viable equally to the other two talents (depending on the fight) for the three specs.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    But there was a valid point earier in this thread. If your raid takes dmg and your healer start using group heals you using healing elixier wont change anything then to bumb overhal stats. Either yours or the healer ones.
    So most the time you wont get any near that healing. At least not when considering raidmana saved and thats the only important thing about healing elixier. It wont help you stay alive on its own but it can help save your healer mana. In reality it barely ever does.
    You can't just say that that the selfheal is useless because of groupheals that will heal you anyway.
    the reason: smart heals! just as there are a lot of group heals, there are also many smartheals going on:
    Circle of Healing, Wildgrowth, PoM, Chainheals, ReM (when jumping) [+Uplift] and more
    there are a lot of heals that will even out single spike heals.

    and no, it's not a huge HPS boost. but nither are the other talents. (if you use Dampen Harm 4x in a 8min fight to prevent 200k dmg, thats 1.7k hps)
    thats not the point. its just the fact that every little bit helps. if 25 raidmembers chose a talent that gives them 2k hps, thats 50k hps raidwide, which is like having another healer! the point is: every bit helps. and if you don't use Dampen harm wiseley and often enough, you're probably better off with Healing elixiers.
    its the same with Expel Harm. I use it as a Chi builder on CD every 15sec, regardless of health. and that's enough that I'm always straight after the tanks in term of "the people you healed most"

    edit: ontopic: really like the idea with the Absorb shield, but don't see that coming, because they just changed the WLs spell to do just that. (would be kind of lame to exact the same thing a few days later) but it would be great and make the talent much more usefull
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2013-01-15 at 10:01 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    (if you use Dampen Harm 4x in a 8min fight to prevent 200k dmg, thats 1.7k hps)
    This may well be the most egregious "totally not the point" mathing out of a cooldown ability I've ever seen.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    This may well be the most egregious "totally not the point" mathing out of a cooldown ability I've ever seen.
    I know, did it for funzies. just want to say, that that tier is not about giving you tonnes of hps / dmg avoid, but a specific dmg decrease to spikes, or a slight passiv heal. (utility, not throughput) [HE in the sense of: it gives you a slight selfheal for absolut no further cost]
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2013-01-16 at 03:55 AM.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    I know, did it for funzies. just want to say, that that tier is not about giving you tonnes of hps / dmg avoid, but a specific dmg decrease to spikes, or a slight passiv heal. (utility, not throughput) [HE in the sense of: it gives you a slight selfheal for absolut no further cost]
    Abilities like DH are on-demand massive mitigation, which is extremely powerful for obvious reasons.

    HE is essentially random minor healing (you're not going to be gimping your mana regen to save it for incoming burst, and you wouldn't use it to heal lethal burst damage anyway; you'd use a real heal for that), which makes it almost worthless as utility for surviving lethal damage. It is only useful for the free HPS it provides, which is why the amount it provides is interesting information, while the amount that DH's mitigation may or may not equate to providing is besides the point.

    If it stacked a long-duration shield it'd at least be somewhat useful.

    [edit] also, it's not a heal you get "for absolut no further cost", it is a heal you get very much so at the cost of not getting to choose either of your other talents for that tier.
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-01-16 at 02:44 PM.

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