The Serpent’s Accord: A Mistweaver PvE Guide [5.4]

[Yonie]

Thok weak in 10m? Not really; it's BiS in fact even for 10m spread fights IMO. It has a 20yd range and has to hit an average of only 1.5 people to match the throughput of Multistrike, which is stronger than amp trinkets for us for throughput (Reglitch I think Multistrike is still ahead of Amp even with 2T16, if you want to do the napkin math or find the post someone made recently).

Well, I tried it. On some fights it's ok and does 3-8% of my healing. But on others it would do under 1%, even 0 healing sometimes. We're wiping on Siegecrafter and it's just useless there. I'm not sure if I'll need it on the next two bosses either. Maybe, we'll see. But I'd much rather use multistrike, than a trinket that's mostly only useful on bosses that are already on farm and therefore don't matter.

[Geodew]

It's not their job to balance the game only when it's easy, it's their job to balance the game.

Agreed, but give them some credit. Balancing healers is hard. I don't expect immediate results.

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Well, I tried it. On some fights it's ok and does 3-8% of my healing. But on others it would do under 1%, even 0 healing sometimes. We're wiping on Siegecrafter and it's just useless there. I'm not sure if I'll need it on the next two bosses either. Maybe, we'll see. But I'd much rather use multistrike, than a trinket that's mostly only useful on bosses that are already on farm and therefore don't matter.

I could see it being bad for Siegecrafter in particular. Like I said, any boss where it hits 1.5+ people on average, you will see better throughput on average than from Multistrike, so use your own judgment . The math isn't complicated btw so I trust it more than logs saying 3-8%. Logs are RNG, theory is not :P. If you're seeing very low healing like 0-1% then you were either very unlucky or yeah your raid is suuuuper spread.

[Spotnick]

Uhm no it was an entirely made up glyph...

You got me confused right lol. Maybe Blizzard will do a new round of asking people what they want for their class like they did for MOP.

[Astraios]

Well, I tried it. On some fights it's ok and does 3-8% of my healing. But on others it would do under 1%, even 0 healing sometimes. We're wiping on Siegecrafter and it's just useless there. I'm not sure if I'll need it on the next two bosses either. Maybe, we'll see. But I'd much rather use multistrike, than a trinket that's mostly only useful on bosses that are already on farm and therefore don't matter.

Or you could use trinkets based on their strength per-fight...
Regardless, cleave was averaging 5% of healing on siegecrafter, So I'm not sure why you think it's useless, it's got a strong proc and very good healing for a trinket, we must be using different strats.

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Agreed, but give them some credit. Balancing healers is hard. I don't expect immediate results.

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I could see it being bad for Siegecrafter in particular. Like I said, any boss where it hits 1.5+ people on average, you will see better throughput on average than from Multistrike, so use your own judgment . The math isn't complicated btw so I trust it more than logs saying 3-8%. Logs are RNG, theory is not :P. If you're seeing very low healing like 0-1% then you were either very unlucky or yeah your raid is suuuuper spread.

Balancing healers might be pretty hard.

Especially when they've buffed everyone else to similar throughput as us and let them keep their utility & superior raid CD's.

AKA "fixing" us would be a nightmare. We already have some of the highest "theoretical" throughput, but it's all overhealing so it doesn't matter. Adding more throughput would help to some degree, sure. But it'd also just potentially break us on other fights. Or it might just do nothing. Lol disc-divine star, lets absorb everything instantlyyyyyyy!

[barackohmama]

should I go for pure crit gems, pure int or mixed? I'm a ilvl 540 mw. So what do you guys think? int should give higher healing output but crit should be better for regen, right?

[Nomjeremy]

should I go for pure crit gems, pure int or mixed? I'm a ilvl 540 mw. So what do you guys think? int should give higher healing output but crit should be better for regen, right?

Reglitch has a great post on his blog about cit vs int. I've tried both out and like crit better. But its not like we need mana so I guess it really depends on you. Do you feel you need to drink more often? Do you run out of mana tea?

[iDrunkenheal]

I'm not sure if you still read these forums affinichi but grats on Garrosh. You cleared 13/14hc on your monk and paragons on your druid. How would you rate monks this tier?

[Totaltotemic]

@Reglitch

Is the amplification passive an x% increase to damage/healing on all critical strikes, or is it x% increase to crit strike bonus?

[Deleted]

@Reglitch

Is the amplification passive an x% increase to damage/healing on all critical strikes, or is it x% increase to crit strike bonus?

Additive x% increase to the crit strike bonus

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Balancing healers might be pretty hard.

Especially when they've buffed everyone else to similar throughput as us and let them keep their utility & superior raid CD's.

AKA "fixing" us would be a nightmare. We already have some of the highest "theoretical" throughput, but it's all overhealing so it doesn't matter. Adding more throughput would help to some degree, sure. But it'd also just potentially break us on other fights. Or it might just do nothing. Lol disc-divine star, lets absorb everything instantlyyyyyyy!

It wouldn't have if they watched during PTR, as soon as genesis was implemented monks needed something to move ReM around at a cost.

[Astraios]

We need a whole lot more than moving ReM. In my raid, people drop health, and then they're topped. Absorbs/smart heals/targeted heals >>> blanket random heals. Moving ReM wouldn't really solve that.

[Yonie]

Or you could use trinkets based on their strength per-fight...
Regardless, cleave was averaging 5% of healing on siegecrafter, So I'm not sure why you think it's useless, it's got a strong proc and very good healing for a trinket, we must be using different strats.

Dunno, I find it easier to equip the trinket and run with it for a few pulls and see for myself than to calculate the distances between people. And people are as far from stacked as they can be on blackfuse. Sure it's cool on thok etc. if I remember to swap trinkets on wednesday

[Deleted]

We need a whole lot more than moving ReM. In my raid, people drop health, and then they're topped. Absorbs/smart heals/targeted heals >>> blanket random heals. Moving ReM wouldn't really solve that.

Maybe they just need to put everyones output in the dirt, every fight should feel like it's being 3 healed imho

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Is it fairly safe to say that we shouldn't drop the t15 2 set bonus until t16 4 set? I just got my tier chestpiece tonight, but it would cost me my 2 set t15 in exchange for 2 pc. t16.

Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ilnomen/simple

[st33l]

So I just got my multistrike trinket today, but I am finding the results rather unimpressive. I am not seeing it exceed 2.5-3% of my healing.
This compared to the cleave trinket on stacked fights seems, kinda lame. My cleave trinket is getting up to 9% of my healing.

A few logs from today,
Thok (10N): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=4413&e=4735
3.0% from multi-strike, 8.9% from cleave (with a 54% overheal on the cleave)

Malkorok (10N): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=1089&e=1309
2.4% from multi-strike - this is with a 22% overheal

At this rate I am wondering if just the amp trinket (with a consistent 3% increase in healing just from increased crits for me + the extra crit I'd get from reforging more haste->crit) would be better than multi-strike.


The cleave trinket seems brilliant though - of course, in stacked fights.

EDIT: Whoops, extra 'except'

[babele]

seems brilliant except stacked????? multi strike is good for those fights where you dont get to stack so nicely for the cleave

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Just fyi, the amp trinkets crit increase isnt as powerfull as it seems.
It seems to add its effect additivly (as opposed to all other similar effects)
That means you get your total heal increase by muliplyint your critchance by the amps %
E.g. 35% * 7% = 2.45%
Now this additional heal only occurs on crits, thus is prone to overheal. Our crits are about 75-90% effective.
So the amp will maybe give you a 2% total heal increase from the crit part. The additonal haste reforged to crit plus the tiny bit of mastery adds about another 1%.
So multistrike is just as good or better if it gives 3-4% of total heal.

Question: do our proccs interact? Can the cloak-relocated-heal procc multistrike? Can a mutlistrike procc cleave? Can a cleave procc multistrike etc?

[iDrunkenheal]

Just fyi, the amp trinkets crit increase isnt as powerfull as it seems.
It seems to add its effect additivly (as opposed to all other similar effects)
That means you get your total heal increase by muliplyint your critchance by the amps %
E.g. 35% * 7% = 2.45%
Now this additional heal only occurs on crits, thus is prone to overheal. Our crits are about 75-90% effective.
So the amp will maybe give you a 2% total heal increase from the crit part. The additonal haste reforged to crit plus the tiny bit of mastery adds about another 1%.
So multistrike is just as good or better if it gives 3-4% of total heal.

Question: do our proccs interact? Can the cloak-relocated-heal procc multistrike? Can a mutlistrike procc cleave? Can a cleave procc multistrike etc?

Not anymore they used to .

[Astraios]

Maybe they just need to put everyones output in the dirt, every fight should feel like it's being 3 healed imho

I liked healing before the raid CD buffs. High throughput phases required good play/throughput. Now it requires a Cd or two.

Also I liked empress. That was a fun fight.

Healing now is pretty boring/spammy/whack-a-mole. When I heal on my paladin people drop health and I attempt to eternal flame them...nope smart heals snipe it before my EF goes off (we are talking around .5s reaction timing or less being sniped). It's kind of amusing and kind of depressing.

So, on another note, am I the only one who finds it amusing that between the start of the expo and the end the healing breakdown tendencies of all the healers shifted? In the beginning MW had almost all of their throughput in 2-3 spells. Now I've got a pretty close breakdown between 6-7( on a fight like thok), and 20+ different heals in my logs. On the other hand, rsham/rdruid now have 2-4 spells doing 80% of their healing, and they used to have much wider use of their tool kits in earlier tiers.

We were nerfed because everyone called those 2-3 spells OP, essentially. Now other healers were buffed to look like we looked way back in 5.0, I direct you to divine star and healing rain/HST and rejuv/efflorescence

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Not anymore they used to .

ah okey that explains why multistrike is only doing 3-3.5% of healing, as it only proccs on parts of our heal (85% maybe) and ofc it can procc on top of crits and thus also often being very prone to overheal.
still amp and multistrike are probably quite similar, but cleave defenetly stronger in the average case.

[Geodew]

Or you could use trinkets based on their strength per-fight...
Regardless, cleave was averaging 5% of healing on siegecrafter, So I'm not sure why you think it's useless, it's got a strong proc and very good healing for a trinket, we must be using different strats.

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Balancing healers might be pretty hard.

Especially when they've buffed everyone else to similar throughput as us and let them keep their utility & superior raid CD's.

AKA "fixing" us would be a nightmare. We already have some of the highest "theoretical" throughput, but it's all overhealing so it doesn't matter. Adding more throughput would help to some degree, sure. But it'd also just potentially break us on other fights. Or it might just do nothing. Lol disc-divine star, lets absorb everything instantlyyyyyyy!

Update on this topic; GC replied to someone's tweet about the subject. I'll quote it for Reglitch since he's blocked for spoiling GTA V. https://twitter.com/Lilyriel/status/385855876256366592
"@Ghostcrawler So you seem really set on balancing tank damage but ignore the huge healing output differences in 25m heroic content."
"@Lilyriel Source? Meters are a terrible way to assess healer potency. They work reasonably well for assessing tank DPS."

Pretty much the response I predicted :P

We need a whole lot more than moving ReM. In my raid, people drop health, and then they're topped. Absorbs/smart heals/targeted heals >>> blanket random heals. Moving ReM wouldn't really solve that.

You heal 25s? Cause in 10s that's far from my experience. 2-3 people hit by single-target take awhile to get back to full, and with Pally/MW/Druid we don't really have bursty smart heals for 2-3 people. Could also be that your raid is overgeared for whatever boss you're on?