1. #1461
    2% is a little rough right ? :/

  2. #1462
    High Overlord Tryvia's Avatar
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    Dat nerf :S

  3. #1463
    Actually, looking at my logs from last night, it's not that brutal. Since Muscle memory is not affected by that nerf (still 4%), and considering we now have 2 free mana tea tied to chi brew every 45sec...

    meh, we'll be alright.

  4. #1464
    Could someone with twitter tell the developers that part of the monk spirit problem ist not our skillset but the meta gem + muscle memory.
    Without the Meta & Horridons loop we would require way more spirit. Especially in 10 N enviroment. It looks like devs are only data mining but not playing MW monks. SOmeone with knowledge of Monks would have removed muscle memory from meta proc.....

    We will be ok as long as we do have such a MG
    Last edited by anfis; 2013-07-19 at 06:55 AM.

  5. #1465
    Mana Tea
    It's a pretty big nerf, mana tea regeneration has just been cut in half. For a well geared mistweaver (i.e. my armory) that's roughly in the realm of logging in and having -10500 spirit. If you want to compensate that you're going to need to at least get rid of 16%+ of your output. Not going to happen.

    Chi Brew
    Somewhat cushions the MT nerf, effectively lets you gear for 1% more output. We lose 25% of our most effective form of healing.

    Chi Burst
    Now made difficult to use on 99% of fights, because it can't be targetted and forgotten about, and it's not like the melee aren't going to be topped with god mode healing rain.

    tl;dr: We're absolutely not going to care about this at all, all it does is make spot healing outside of T30 talents and gaming the legendary entirely over punishing relative to how effective it is. As is, next patch is going to be sitting in melee with Serpent's Zeal twiddling your thumbs until renewing mist/expel harm/zen sphere come off cooldown or your legendary procs so you can get two jabs in without decimating your mana. RJW will be used for it's double HPM during AoE phases but nothing apart from staple heals and uplift will be cast between, so it won't be a real input increase, it will just be a dampen the effects of the nerf on our short term mana during AoE phases. People will almost definitely be using Zen Sphere now because of the completely needless nerf to Chi Burst's usability in a real situation, and the fact it will munch globals.

    Also regarding the entirely needless nerfs to our effective healing, why do I now need to consciously rotate my character to aim at people instead of clicking my frames and relying on my general knowledge of where a player is as opposed to where I'm facing in the clump of melee spell effects? Why is Chi Brew being nerfed so the brunt of our most effective healing is now reduced by 25%? Seems entirely unwarranted considering we've just been nerfed into a position of doing absolutely nothing for 50% of a fight.
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  6. #1466
    Quote Originally Posted by Yem View Post
    Actually, looking at my logs from last night, it's not that brutal. Since Muscle memory is not affected by that nerf (still 4%), and considering we now have 2 free mana tea tied to chi brew every 45sec...

    meh, we'll be alright.
    We going to lost output. This affects a lot on Uplifts.
    I demand a buff.

  7. #1467
    what amount of crit rating will be possible with the 553 + gear and trinkets ? I try to decide between more crit and spirit.
    Might be pure crit gemming any improvement?

  8. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Worth noting:

    t16 shoulders are spirit + mastery, red + yellow sockets
    t16 chest is spirit + crit, red + yellow + blue sockets
    t16 gloves are spirit + haste, 2 red sockets
    t16 legs are spirit + mastery, yellow + yellow sockets

    Not sure about helm.

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  9. #1469
    I wonder why even in our place in raids, u guys talk about nerfs as we need'em?
    I mean, on my case I play 10N. For 10N a monk just loses his fully potential and everyday I play, I see that other classes are way better in some points: raid cooldowns, utility, etc. Aside from LMG/Tigerpalm spam that is retarded, I don't get the idea that we need nerfs.

  10. #1470
    i did not demand them but expected them. The buffs to the other healers should already have placed us in the middle of the pack from a data mining standpoint. With this nerf we need to sacrifice throughput stats or hope on an impressive crit rating.
    For data miners we are looking great on paper and our flaws (spirit/Mastery) do increase this good on paper image. Classes are balanced purely on data mining and not experience.

    GC is a system designer which translates into data analysis of charts and designing a system around mined data.

  11. #1471
    Quote Originally Posted by anfis View Post
    i did not demand them but expected them. The buffs to the other healers should already have placed us in the middle of the pack from a data mining standpoint. With this nerf we need to sacrifice throughput stats or hope on an impressive crit rating.
    For data miners we are looking great on paper and our flaws (spirit/Mastery) do increase this good on paper image. Classes are balanced purely on data mining and not experience.

    GC is a system designer which translates into data analysis of charts and designing a system around mined data.
    Keep the dribble of "the devs have no idea what they're doing" to a minimum please, they've been incredibly receptive to feedback this tier.
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  12. #1472
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    they've been incredibly receptive to feedback this tier.
    This not Justifies the nerfs on our glorious and just OK class.

  13. #1473
    Quote Originally Posted by Aminance View Post
    This not Justifies the nerfs on our glorious and just OK class.
    I can tell you it doesn't justify posting comments which constructively amount to being effective as a wet fart. If you want changes post in the respective feedback forums on the EU & US forums, if you want to discuss changes post here, if you want to make fun at the devs because we'll be bad for one iteration of the PTR then go on twitter. All that posting that kind of bollocks here does is detract from good discussion, I doubt it will be tolerated by luq.
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  14. #1474
    In all cases we need to figure out ways to compensate for this nerf.


    Ways to compensate:
    - We need more LGM and Trinket procs -> more haste
    - We need more tea stacks -> more crit
    - we need more regen -> maybe 3-5k more spirit

    Negative side effects of this change:
    -Loss of throughput stats
    -Loss of global cooldowns used for tea


    Questions:
    Q:How much haste can we get?
    A:A lot if the trinkets will not change.

    Q:How much will the trinkets and cloak influence our gameplay?
    A:Only calculated data available. We need to see how it plays out.

    Q:Will crit get more important?
    A:Yes, the additional tea stack is really important but we will be busy wasting global cooldowns on tea.

    I need a lot more input on this Somehow i feel starved on data...

    to be continued...
    Last edited by anfis; 2013-07-19 at 08:03 AM.

  15. #1475
    If you think that talking about nerfs is bollocks, does not matter. Just go back to the US and EU forums and I'll be there too.
    No reason to be a fool, dude.

  16. #1476
    Quote Originally Posted by anfis View Post
    Still i try to figure out if the increased crit rating of the higher ilvl gear with it's additional tea charges will compensate the tea nerf in some way.
    My guess is we will lose to many global cooldowns with using tea charges.
    You would need 100%+ to reach normality with our old baseline mana tea
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  17. #1477
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    You would need 100%+ to reach normality with our old baseline mana tea
    My grudge with this is we need to push taht button twice as often now >_<. That will hurt our throughput a lot.
    In the end additional spirit might be more vital

    I will let this change settle and try to get to a better solution once i have time to calculate the data without emotions.



    P.S.: Sorry for the first post about dev decision finding but it was an emotional reaction on the dicision they made which looks odd out of my perspective.I'm still a human
    Last edited by anfis; 2013-07-19 at 08:12 AM.

  18. #1478
    This week on twins I got 684000 mana from mana tea, 299450 mana from swrpent's vitality and 60000 mana from TP. Means I would get 342000 mana from mana tea instead. I ended the fight with about 200000 mana so I would have to find 100k mana from somewhere (probably from not spamming SCK like a tardface in p1 and after Suen died to boost my HPS.

    Truly I don't think it's a big change. We'll lose output sure, but ReM and Uplift already do huge amounts of overheating as it is. If that number is directly reduced through gearing into more spirit and as a result we would keep the same eHPS then the change just requires us to not suck when Lucidity is up.
    Last edited by Floopa; 2013-07-19 at 08:16 AM.

  19. #1479
    In brighter news, the healer cloak seems to have 1RPPM. We could end up going haste and getting a 1/3 uptime on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by anfis View Post
    My grudge with this is we need to push taht button twice as often now >_<. That will hurt our throughput a lot.
    In the end additional spirit might be more vital

    I will let this change settle and try to get to a better solution once i have time to calculate the data without emotions.



    P.S.: Sorry for the first post about dev decision finding but it was an emotional reaction on the dicision they made which looks odd out of my perspective.I'm still a human
    Not really, we'll still have the same amount of stacks being generated they just give less. I suggested an increase to the chug rate on the feedback thread.
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  20. #1480
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    I suggested an increase to the chug rate on the feedback thread.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7761886114 is the link if anybody missed it earlier on. Pretty sure there's a US thread too, so make sure to leave constructive feedback! We don't have a 40 page thread like paladins. Bit hard to leave feedback when the change isn't even on the PTR yet, but whatever.

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