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  1. #1

    This week on MMOC Monk

    Recently it's come to my attention that while we all know that this is the most comprehensive Monk forum in the world, a lot of other people don't know that. I don't know about everyone else, but my goal here is primarily to inform, thus I would like people that wouldn't otherwise be privy to the things we discuss here to at least have some of it brought to their attention instead of individual people sometimes cross-posting some of the things that they have talked about.

    To that end, I'm planning on starting a weekly thread on the official forums that I'm calling "This week on MMOC Monk" as a kind of Reader's Digest for people that don't normally come here. The format will be three sections, one for WW, MW, and BrM in that order because of the relative amount of important information that tends to come about for those specs on a weekly basis. The content would look something like this:
    ___
    This week on MMOC Monk 9/10/14

    Windwalker

    Hinalover, Rotund, and Gahddo have been continuing their work on figuring out the best talents to use and stat priority for 6.0 using a combination of Rotund's spreadsheet and Hinalover/Gahddo's work on SimulationCraft (SimC). So far, their results are showing Chi Wave, Chi Brew, and Serenity, with Chi Wave/Ascension/Chi Explosion not far behind. Stat priorities look as follows (Hinalover):

    Chi Explosion:

    Haste > Multistrike > Versatility >= Crit >>> Mastery

    Hurricane Strike:

    Multistrike > Versatility >= Haste >= Crit >>> Mastery

    Serenity:

    Multistrike > Crit >= Versatility > Haste > Mastery

    Also discussed this week were the implications of the tank squish, including a healing nerf to Chi Wave (that also included a damage buff!) and an overall nerf to Expel Harm as collateral damage. Discussion also continues on the amount of downtime WW still has in the rotation, with many feeling that it might still be a little too slow.

    (Note: because it's still beta there's been a lot more in the past week, but this is what has been the most relevant in the past few days)

    Mistweaver

    In response to Geodew's massive complication of feedback, developer Celestalon finally started engaging with the feedback. The general outcome of this discussion is that Gift of the Serpent is still too weak and likely to be looked at, no further utility is planned to be added, Revival will remain much weaker than other healing cooldowns due to the fact that it is instant, and no further mechanical changes to the spec are planned. You can read the full responses here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...589?page=6#117

    The discussion on mechanical changes vs balance tuning rages on, with most MWs lamenting the idea that mechanical changes are likely at an end, while some are still hopeful that the spec will receive many buffs in the last stages of testing to ensure MW viability in Mythic raiding. Gift of the Serpent, Uplift, and Renewing Mist are all heavy subjects of criticism for doing too little healing for their disadvantages.

    The general consensus this week is that hardcore MW Mythic raiders should probably at least have another healing class available as an alt going into WoD if not rerolling entirely, while MWs planning on doing LFR, Normal, or Heroic raiding can likely still stick with MW and be okay. Further feedback (in the form of numbers) to make the case for more MW changes has been called for if anyone can help.

    Brewmaster

    With the tank squish (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14058407204) now in full swing, many BrMs are trying to re-evaluate where the spec sits in terms of balance. Preliminary findings suggest that BrM is about average in terms of damage intake and damage dealt, with some unique tools that still make them a good choice of tank. Many are still concerned about how strong Warriors are currently and that they might end up crowding out other tanks.

    Stat priority discussion has also begun anew with the many changes brought in the tank squish. Things are still murky at best, but we should have more information next week.

    Another subject that was brought up recently that seems to keep coming back is the Black Ox Statue, which has traded its Guard on random raid members for a small amount of pulsing threat in a huge 30 yard radius around the statue. Common responses are that, while not numerically useful, it sets BrMs apart from other tanks in their unparalleled ability to pick up adds from a range.

    ____________

    That's about what one of these posts would look like. What do you think? Is this something that would be beneficial? Am I missing anything major? As long as there are no problems with this I think I will continue to produce these each week and post them to the official Monk forum on us.battle.net, and if it proves to be successful there then I would also like someone to post it to the eu.battle.net/en/ Monk forum as well.
    Brewmaster, Windwalker, and Mistweaver enthusiast and theorycrafter.

  2. #2
    This is a really good idea and you've executed it wonderfully! If you keep doing these every week then most people will be on the same page (being away for a week and having to backtrack 10+ pages on the mistweaver beta thread isn't super exciting), which will allow for easier discussion. It will probably net us more responses from blues aswell which is basis for even more discussion. Keep it up! =)

  3. #3
    I like it! This is a great idea. It's probably also worth posting to its own thread here too; having a tl;dr summary of the week would be useful for people who don't have the time to keep up with their spec's thread, or want to know what's going on with the other specs without having to read their threads too.
    Baconslicer --> Rockets

  4. #4
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Totaltotemic;29417615]Snip[QUOTE]

    It might be a good idea.

    I do disagree with this part though:

    while some are still hopeful that the spec will receive many buffs in the last stages of testing to ensure MW viability in Mythic raiding. Gift of the Serpent, Uplift, and Renewing Mist are all heavy subjects of criticism for doing too little healing for their disadvantages.
    Hopeful is not the right word. Mistweavers need to be overtuned to compete with other healers, those particular spells you mentioned will have to be overtuned by a lot to make them useful. This is most likely what blizzard will do, as they are now in the 'tuning' stage. But that is not hope, it is pure angst, because there are better solutions and is the worst possible outcome.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  5. #5
    Heh, I'd argue that the worst possible outcome is that they do nothing. But that's the purpose of it, to get more people talking about what everyone else is talking about, even if it's to disagree.
    Brewmaster, Windwalker, and Mistweaver enthusiast and theorycrafter.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome bloodkin's Avatar
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    nice post ! you're doing some nice work for monks Totaltotemic. I personally like hwere brewmaster is at now, though i'd wish they didn't nerf Shuffle, as i really like the stagger mechanic. I also play MW, but it's a but disheartening to see where that spec is heading too :S
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

    'A Man choses, a Slave obeys.' -Andrew Rayn

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    nice post ! you're doing some nice work for monks Totaltotemic. I personally like hwere brewmaster is at now, though i'd wish they didn't nerf Shuffle, as i really like the stagger mechanic. I also play MW, but it's a but disheartening to see where that spec is heading too :S
    Stagger and Shuffle still exist in mostly the same form that they always have. Blizz just reduced the mitigation of Shuffle a bit. There were some serious scaling problems with Shuffle, EB, and other tank CDs that could result 85% or more reduced damage from stagger, dodge, and damage reduction. The survivability of tanks had to be nerfed.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome bloodkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jocias View Post
    Stagger and Shuffle still exist in mostly the same form that they always have. Blizz just reduced the mitigation of Shuffle a bit. There were some serious scaling problems with Shuffle, EB, and other tank CDs that could result 85% or more reduced damage from stagger, dodge, and damage reduction. The survivability of tanks had to be nerfed.
    I was not aware of that. However, why would blizz not adjust how avoidance stats scale, and just increase DR to a degree (keeping the stat increase in mind regarding incoming raid tiers) ? I would think that blizz either wants to minimize ILVL creep by making the stats weigh more, or they actually forgot scaling them with the natural ILVL increase that would follow with new tiers.
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

    'A Man choses, a Slave obeys.' -Andrew Rayn

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    I was not aware of that. However, why would blizz not adjust how avoidance stats scale, and just increase DR to a degree (keeping the stat increase in mind regarding incoming raid tiers) ? I would think that blizz either wants to minimize ILVL creep by making the stats weigh more, or they actually forgot scaling them with the natural ILVL increase that would follow with new tiers.
    This discussion is better suited for the BrM-specific thread, where as mentioned we have been discussing the effects of the nerf. I suggest you read the last couple of pages before jumping in to the middle of the conversation though.
    Baconslicer --> Rockets

  10. #10
    Great Idea Total.

    I would like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir.

  11. #11
    @Total, this was well-done and immensely useful.

  12. #12
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Looks great. I appreciate the effort from yourself and everyone else contributing on the beta discussions, so thanks.

  13. #13
    Nice post. keep them coming

  14. #14
    Nicely done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    ... Revival will remain much weaker than other healing cooldowns due to the fact that it is instant ...
    Somehow, I can't get my head around this notion. I didn't heal a single raid during the whole addon, so my perception of this may be off. But as far as I can see, everytime a huge healing CD for the raid is needed, it is because of an ability with a cast-time or / and on a fixed timer. Your raid just doesn't drop without warning extremely low / gets so much damage without there being some warning beforehand. So you know when the ability will hit before. If the people are not dying to it within 1-2 seconds, the ability being instant gives absolutely no advantage over a cast / channel. There is only a single boss where it can really make a difference, and that is Thok. And if Revival is that much weaker than other healing CDs (don't know how exactly the numbers are), I'll take a Tranq or Hymn with BoP everytime over a Revival.
    Somehow I'm reading Celestalon here as: One healing CD should heal a lot less than others, because for the others you have to look at your bosstimers.
    Last edited by Forsta; 2014-09-12 at 01:26 AM.

  15. #15
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsta View Post
    Nicely done.


    Somehow, I can't get my head around this notion. I didn't heal a single raid during the whole addon, so my perception of this may be off. But as far as I can see, everytime a huge healing CD for the raid is needed, it is because of an ability with a cast-time or / and on a fixed timer. Your raid just doesn't drop without warning extremely low / gets so much damage without there being some warning beforehand. So you know when the ability will hit before. If the people are not dying to it within 1-2 seconds, the ability being instant gives absolutely no advantage over a cast / channel. There is only a single boss where it can really make a difference, and that is Thok. And if Revival is that much weaker than other healing CDs (don't know how exactly the numbers are), I'll take a Tranq or Hymn with BoP everytime over a Revival.
    Somehow I'm reading Celestalon here as: One healing CD should heal a lot less than others, because for the others you have to look at your bosstimers.
    I would like it to maybe give you a buff to increase your healing or something for X amount of time, so yes while it is instant we could have a good aftereffect for it to then be somewhat reasonable to
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  16. #16
    The Patient Blsmonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I would like it to maybe give you a buff to increase your healing or something for X amount of time, so yes while it is instant we could have a good aftereffect for it to then be somewhat reasonable to
    A buff to our healing through Revival is too direct and lacks utility. Something like the removal of ReM for Uplift, or no Chi cost for Uplift for 6 seconds would be a lot more beneficial as Uplift is not worth using currently, and even then, would only be used in select circumstance. The spell is not used due to the inefficiency of it's Chi cost, but if the cost was removed for a select period of time after using Revival, our healing kit would be a lot better. If Blizzard want us to compete, most of our spells will have to be overtuned anyway going into WoD.

    World of Warcraft - Path of Exile - Hearthstone
    @Blsmonk


  17. #17
    Might wnat to put a "post number" "episode number" or "week ending" field in your title to know when to age out old posts

  18. #18
    Past 4 months on MW forums> Eveyone has rerolled/unsubbed

  19. #19
    I would suggest adding links for your source material or we will get conversation split between the main discussion thread and the weekly newsletter.

  20. #20
    Great post, thanks for taking the time.

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