1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    And the guy who did a thousand casts of soothing mist never got 0 chi on a channel. You dismissed the report of that data, when told to go look at it.
    Okay, ignoring any current figures and going down to a fundamental level; before this announcement there was no possible way to tell if the change had been implemented or people were experiencing a placebo. Now unless they've implemented that fix over a PTR restart as it's a serverside change, it's not been implemented because you can get 0 chi in a channel, or get 1 chi on the initial tick and none for the rest of the channel which is also impossible given the change described.

    I apologize if you're interpreting my posts as hostile but I just have a vested interest in feedback not becoming something detrimental to the health of the class going forward towards 5.2


    ---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 07:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Ok next question. Does the 2 targets 10 sec cd of Zen Sphere act like roll where you can have up to 2 charges but only 1 regens every 10 seconds or is it just 10 sec cd but you can have 2 active at any one time? And can you place it on someone less than 35% health and it will immediately detonate or does it have to be in place prior to that?
    No, it's a static cooldown and the duration of the HoT just happens to be longer than the cooldown of the ability.
    Last edited by Reglitch; 2013-02-26 at 07:06 PM.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Okay, ignoring any current figures and going down to a fundamental level; before this announcement there was no possible way to tell if the change had been implemented or people were experiencing a placebo.
    ....

    Unless you test it, which is what he did. And I told you then that the chance of it being unchanged, based on that data and some statistical analysis, is vanishingly small. So small, in fact, that most tables for the statistics don't go out that far. My estimate based on the number would be something less than a one-in-a-million chance that his measured data was simply due to luck and was actually the unchanged 30% proc rate all along.

    You ignored that too.

    I get that you're invested in the class, but ignoring measured data is not a good approach on getting your voice heard.

  3. #263
    I'm not ignoring data, beforehand we didn't know if it was their intention to let a full cast of SM go through without a single chi. Now we have the numbers we can clearly see from the fact there are/were 0 chi casts, and casts issuing 1 chi at the start but no chi for the rest of the duration*, that the change described recently wasn't in effect on the PTR. All I'm saying is it's not wise to give feedback on a change that potentially hasn't actually gone through, especially when we haven't been given the specifics on how it works.

    * Post announcement of this change.
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  4. #264
    Well, considering using SoM in an entire raid should be above 1000 total ticks if it was your major chi generator, I'd say that only 1000 ticks (casts? either way, tbh) should be considered an extremely small sample size when trying to guess whether something still follows a certain percent or not, if you want to be "statistically correct". Regardless, the spell still sucks for anything other than preparation chi. It's alright though, ReM shall carry us to victory.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    Well, considering using SoM in an entire raid should be above 1000 total ticks if it was your major chi generator, I'd say that only 1000 ticks (casts? either way, tbh) should be considered an extremely small sample size when trying to guess whether something still follows a certain percent or not, if you want to be "statistically correct".
    Actually it's not, for situations like this where you're determining differences in the means of two populations 1000 is ridiculously huge for a sample. I can't actually say precisely the chance that the measured data was just a fluke, because the tables used in the statistical analysis tend not to go out that far. It stopped at one in two thousand, and wasn't even close.

    Edit: Did the actual calculation, if the 30% flat proc were still in effect when Chimerian did his measurement, then the chance that he got the result he did was 0.0005173%, or about 1 in 193,282.
    Last edited by Dreyo; 2013-02-27 at 03:24 PM.

  6. #266
    Honestly I could care less and it's meaningless whatever you want to call it. I don't view it as significant or meaningful in anyway because it didn't prove anything until we were told what had been changed and how. We know and have been told it's changed, so that data is really not particularly important, nor is arguing over it relevant to the thread.

    SoM is still horrible, due to its speed and cast time (meaning rooting you to the ground). I still don't view it as reliable since it's still random when we get chi, how soon we get it, etc. It's great that it's better than before, but it's still a horrible tool. This did nothing to change that.

  7. #267
    I guess it just boils down to that I can't agree that Soothing Mist is "horrible." Is it as good as 5.1 Jab? No, certainly not. Is it horrible? I wouldn't go that far.

  8. #268
    I appreciate all the discussions on this forum with respect to the 5.2 changes, at the moment all positive feedback we can provide will allow Blizzard to view different perspectives, which will lead to a more appealing gameplay. Having said this, I feel that one of the main issues is the actual feedback provided. I'm not trying to accuse anyone, but I'll just state the obvious and say that you need to test things and evaluate them on a practical basis to provide feedback instead of making comments based on your judgement.

    Back on the "Jab nerf" thread I only posted like 2 comments but I read most of the thread attentively, to understand what other mistweavers thought and the general consensus was obvious: jab nerf sox and soothing mist isn't reliable enough to offset the change. I didn't say anything because I really didn't test anything to confirm these claims, assuming the users did put their hands on the latest PTR (again not accusing those who didn't :P). As we all know, especially as healers, there are too many variables to consider during an encounter (this is a good thing) that the best arguments we can give are merely predictions or assumptions (depends on the complexity of the situation).

    Last night I had a few attempts on Ji-Kun 25 man HC, perhaps it's not a exemplary encounter and these are just opinions but to make it short I was very comfortable with the changes. At first I was intimidated by a 24k mana jab, soothing for most of the try, and I absolutely disliked it so I just had a go at playing like I do on live except that I had a more cautious approach towards using jab. And the results were; I was relatively comfortable in terms of mana, I was contributing with some decent 40k dps on average, I was competitive in terms of throughput where my snipe uplift healing during Quill (AoE burst aura with similar raid damage to Get Away!) was pretty significant and before you ask I did jab twice or even three times to uplift. Overall I was probably spending less chi than I do on live but being more cautious with jabbing was interesting compared to a careless jab on live, and my overhealing due to a more "attentive" use of uplift was also lower compared to live.

    This makes me reconsider some of the changes presented for 5.2. The T30 talents being free of chi cost makes sense not just as a mistweaver, but for monks as a whole (see windwalker and brewmaster forums :P). I'll miss an alternative chi burst when uplift isn't as useful, but with the increased scarcity of chi (because lets face it, generating chi with jab constantly during an 8 min encounter isn't exactly correct), a free T30 talent will come useful, depending on the situation. Again, it might depend on the encounter and whilst Ji-Kun and Durumu the Forgotten might not be the best examples, jabbing to uplift will still be usable (for some of you this is obvious, for others it isn't). Notice I didn't say mandatory because your mana bar will go blue to grey in an instant by doing so, but with a more thoughful use (jabbing to uplift) it's still something that we will do.

    Nuke me all you want for having this opinion but so far what I tested seemed pretty solid. Additionally, the new glow around the TP and BoK on action bars with Muscle Memory active looked awesome :P

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    Nuke me all you want for having this opinion but so far what I tested seemed pretty solid. Additionally, the new glow around the TP and BoK on action bars with Muscle Memory active looked awesome :P
    Oh im glad they did that. it havent been that when i last logged into PTR.

  10. #270
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    Thank you Zonde, that info is very useful. I was stressing out b/c I went and tried mistweaving this past raid night as opposed to the general dps weaving I had been doing since October and my heals went down about 25%. Could be just from not knowing the playstyle well enough but knowing I can still zealweave, as I think totaltotemic put it, is good to know.

  11. #271
    Here are some recent changes:

    - Renewing Mist - mana cost reduced 10%.
    Well, a small change, but less mana means more mana for other abilities.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuibo View Post
    Well, a small change, but less mana means more mana for other abilities.
    It's actually a bit bigger than it seems, mostly because we use RM on cooldown on most fights. If used every 8 seconds, that change results in 1219 mp5, or 1,000 if we're going to round it off because we're not always using it. If we convert that to Spirit (finally found this number, it's 0.564 mp5 per 1 Spirit), 1000 mp5 = 1,773 Spirit. If we didn't round the initial mp5 (always use RM on cd without fail), it's 2,161 Spirit.

    Edit: Thanks to Chimaera for pointing out my brain fart, it's roughly 3 times what I thought it would be because I flipped the conversion around. It's actually a lot more in terms of Spirit than any upgrade in item level.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2013-03-02 at 12:02 AM.

  13. #273
    In the 25 man HC testing I find myself doing this a lot:

    > stand in melee camp
    > Renew, Expel on CD, Uplift at 2 chi, TFT for bursts (as normal)
    > SCK as filler for guaranteed chi

    The 522/527 levels of spirit I'm hitting on the PTR (14k) allow me to basically spam SCK, Renewing and Uplift for the entire fight and normally I'm 1/2nd depending on that fight's mechanics. On Megaera I found myself being 3rd but that's due to a potentially bugged Light's Hammer (isn't causing DRs past 6 targets) but assuming that is a bug then I would be first there as well. The removal of Jab sucks but we're still in a very good spot, I just really dislike Soothing as a chi generator. It's great for mana efficiency but it's far too random (IMO) in heroic content to be competitive with SCK, even though SCK does cost a huge amount of mana.

  14. #274
    Can someone please repost the way to make Soothing not change your camera? It got lost in the numerous pages in the jab nerfed again thread. Also if you would write it in the OP it would be awesome.

  15. #275
    Spending 10 mins to look for it doesn't hurt... :P And yes, I'm finishing 5.2 updates where that will be included under the macro section, just waiting for a confirmed ptr note release.

    Soothing Mist camera track disable:

    write in World of Warcraft\WTF\Account\Accountname config-cache

    SET cameraSmoothTrackingStyle "0"
    OR in-game

    Quote Originally Posted by ccKep View Post
    /console cameraSmoothTrackingStyle 0

    To determine what your current TrackingStyle is (in case you want to reset it):
    /dump GetCVar("cameraSmoothTrackingStyle")

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    It's actually a bit bigger than it seems, mostly because we use RM on cooldown on most fights. If used every 8 seconds, that change results in 1219 mp5, or 1,000 if we're going to round it off because we're not always using it. If we convert that to Spirit (finally found this number, it's 0.56435 Spirit per 1 mp5), 1000 mp5 = 564 Spirit. If we didn't round the initial mp5 (always use RM on cd without fail), it's 688 Spirit.

    So, it's not a ton, but it's roughly equal to any profession or racial bonus.
    1 spirit is .564 mp5 in combat, not the other way around. This change is worth as much as 2,160 spirit worth of additional mana.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
    1 spirit is .564 mp5 in combat, not the other way around. This change is worth as much as 2,160 spirit worth of additional mana.
    Yeah I think I flipped that around in me head. Will edit.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    It's actually a bit bigger than it seems, mostly because we use RM on cooldown on most fights. If used every 8 seconds, that change results in 1219 mp5, or 1,000 if we're going to round it off because we're not always using it. If we convert that to Spirit (finally found this number, it's 0.564 mp5 per 1 Spirit), 1000 mp5 = 1,773 Spirit. If we didn't round the initial mp5 (always use RM on cd without fail), it's 2,161 Spirit.

    Edit: Thanks to Chimaera for pointing out my brain fart, it's roughly 3 times what I thought it would be because I flipped the conversion around. It's actually a lot more in terms of Spirit than any upgrade in item level.
    I didn't think about that. Thanks for your calculation.

  19. #279
    The new change isn't live on PTR at the moment but I can safely say right now that if you go ahead and use soothing as the generator for chi chances are you will never run OOM, or even close to it. On Twin Consorts heroic I was healing via this:

    Night - Soothing w/ ReM, Expel on CD, Uplift at 2 Chi, TFT on CD
    Day - SCK > SCK > Uplift w/ ReM, Expel on CD, TFT on CD
    Dusk - SCK > SCK > Uplift w/ ReM, Expel on CD, TFT on CD

    I didn't really go OOM at all, I built up so many mana tea stacks from the first 3 minute night phase (16 to be exact) that I could spread those out over the rest of the fight for a stable method of regenerating mana. For those interested, we used 1 Resto Shaman and did manage to kill the boss in the 537 gear. Although I think it's a bit undertuned to be honest. It's important to note we were in 537 gear though which is going to be the "BiS" ILvL for t15 most likely.

  20. #280
    I was just reflecting on some notes from 5.2 and suddenly I realized we don't have a concrete mp5 value per point of crit. Obviously it'll depend on mana tea but lets say an average use of 2 mana tea stacks every 18 seconds which would be fair for 5.2.

    1 point of crit rating = 0.00167% (to 3 s.f.)

    Average mana gained from 1 crit point = 12000 * 0.00167 = 20

    Mp5 value of 1 crit point when generating 1 mana tea stack every 9 sec = (20/9) * 5 = 11 mp5

    I mean, I don't think any of my assumptions are wrong or unrealistic. I just threw it out here since I'm really confused with the result which would suggest crit's mp5 value to be 20 times superior to the mp5 value of spirit in combat??? lol
    Last edited by Luqyolo; 2013-03-02 at 09:52 PM.

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