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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesima View Post
    First I'd like to start of saying thank you Zonde for the guide, I keep reading it over and over again to try and get a better understanding on how to heal as a Mistweaver Monk. With that being said, could someone please break this down to me like I'm 5 years old and still need assistance to go pee pee?
    The primary issue is that Mistweaver is a phenomenally deep healing spec, in the sense that there are (at least) three different and distinct healing styles contained within the spec. 5.2 is going to be significantly buffing one of them, so all three will be useful and roughly on par.

    Ranged healing is the closest to the way other classes do it. When you're doing this, you're standing somewhere healing people with your 40-yard range healing spells. You can stand with the other healers, but it's not always necessary, because we're classified as melee for the purpose of raid mechanics. You won't ever be targeted by a Wind Bomb on Mel'jarak, as an example. Ranged healing consists of Renewing Mist for general raid HoT coverage, Soothing Mist for chi generation and low-cost healing (sortof like Healing Wave), Uplift for raid healing, Enveloping Mist plus continued Soothing Mists channeling for the "bigheal" (sortof like Greater Healing Wave), and Surging Mist (sortof like Healing Surge). Anybody who needs special attention gets the Soothing Mists beam, and anyone who needs extra attention gets a Enveloping Mist, and Surging Mist is there for emergencies. There's also your L30 talent choice.

    Then there's the melee styles. In 5.2, the more 'pure' melee style is being buffed to usefulness (overpoweredness, maybe?). It consists of using Jab for Chi instead of Soothing Mists, and Tiger's Palm and Blackout Kick as primary chi dumps. You still use Renewing Mist on cooldown. The third style to this is to focus more on using Uplift for raid healing, but still using Jab for Chi. Again, Renewing Mist on cooldown but it's even more important since the bulk of your healing will be through Uplift. With both of the melee styles it's generally useful to keep up Serpent's Zeal and Tiger Power, but if they fall off don't panic, just put them up when you can. In the middle of a mass AOE damage phase when you're spamming Uplift as quick as you can is a bad time to put them back up, use your judgment.

    The styles are different, and they have different strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, there's no barrier to switching among them, so even in the middle of a fight it can make sense to switch among them. It's fine enough to just pick one until you're comfortable, and then start branching out to the others. Heroic dungeons are a great way to practice, as all three are effective enough for them.

  2. #62
    High Overlord Mesima's Avatar
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    Thank you guys so much! This greatly helped me in understanding the basics even more! I'll apply this knowledge and continue to learn. Soon enough I'll be healing in my guilds 10M alt run on Sundays! Thanks guys once again!

    (P.S. The comparison to Shaman spell names helped immensely!)

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  3. #63
    You might want to add on the "Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger" part that you might have to attack after spawning Xuen to actually get him to attack. Almost every time I summon him he runs back to my side until I physically attack the boss.

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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    You might want to add on the "Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger" part that you might have to attack after spawning Xuen to actually get him to attack. Almost every time I summon him he runs back to my side until I physically attack the boss.
    Fair enough. :P

    Also, Shyama designed a really nice introductory banner to the guide, looks awesome amirite

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    Fair enough. :P

    Also, Shyama designed a really nice introductory banner to the guide, looks awesome amirite
    I agree, look fantastic. It would be nice if you could get headers made with the same image and using them to split it into different parts. Halve the height and add the header text in there - would look sweet.

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  6. #66
    with this 5.2 buff about our dps, are staff going to be better for us? (for pve i mean)

    now i think 1h or staff are about the same, i'm unlucky and i've never seen the staff yet, but i'm aiming for that. Am i wrong?

    The real reason is that WE are unlucky and lots of healer miss the weapon, and since lot of them want the mace, i've decided to let them get it while i take the staff (since for us i think is nearly the same)

    But i think that with this buff staff will be better, or not?

  7. #67
    I don't think there will be a big enough difference to care.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    I don't think there will be a big enough difference to care.
    why not? if there will be difference, even minor, why not take the best option?
    and since other healers don't care at all, i see no cost in taking the staff instead of the mace.

    Only IF it will be better ofc.

    But OP says: 2h = better overall dps, more from skill less from autoattack
    1h = less overall dps, but more from autoattack, => since we're not using all the time bk or tp as chi spender, the difference is minimal.

    but with 5.2
    1-more damage from skills-> 2h dps >> 1h dps even more
    2-t2 talent free -> more chi to spend in damage skills-> more damage skills-> see 1 point
    Last edited by saeros; 2013-01-27 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    You might want to add on the "Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger" part that you might have to attack after spawning Xuen to actually get him to attack. Almost every time I summon him he runs back to my side until I physically attack the boss.
    Thats fixed for next patch

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    Thats fixed for next patch
    Won't mention any future patch related notes on the guide until it actually goes live or a confirmation of final patch notes.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    Thats fixed for next patch
    Its good to know that its fixed, but this guide is about the current patch. Seeing as 5.2 is weeks away (maybe even a month away) there's no reason to add it yet.

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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    Its good to know that its fixed, but this guide is about the current patch. Seeing as 5.2 is weeks away (maybe even a month away) there's no reason to add it yet.
    5.2 is a good couple of months away

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    5.2 is a good couple of months away
    Yea exactly, I was just talking bare minimum to prove my point that its still far away. PTR is up to get things ready, not necessarily using the same time line for this patch as the gap between raid patches hasn't been as long yet. Once the patch is ready they will likely let it roll on for a bit until they are happy with current progression and then ship it.

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  14. #74
    OK, so i'm a Priest healer trying to get the hang of MW as my alt and I have the same frustrations already expressed and more. ReM really bothers me, I know to use it on cooldown, but when I get to cast it again I usually go searching all over my raid frames looking for a suitable target. What I usually find are low-health players with a ReM already ticking, 100% players with no ReM, and a tank that is a few seconds away from losing ReM. I feel inefficient putting ReM on someone at 100%, so I tend to ReM the tank with a few seconds left. I know that's a waste (or is it?) of a tick. So then I started to make a mental note of who to ReM next when I cast it (planning ahead) which never works either because by the time I can cast it again my pre-planned target is already swimming in a fresh ReM. So I feel like I'm either constantly micromanaging ReM and neglecting everything else, or I get distracted and during a big damage burst only then realize I only have 2 or 3 ReM out. Ugh!

    The whole random healing thing is also very unnerving, and in 10man I am constantly starting to do something and then canceling that by doing something else when I realize that it's no longer the something I should be doing: starting a SM channel and then suddenly interrupting it with a ReM only to realize that I cast ReM on the same person I just interrupted my SM on. Ugh! Oh, and they had a few seconds on ReM already so double UGH!

    And when I finally get ReM going on 6 or 7 people, and a big damage burst comes, I jabx2 uplift, jabx2 uplift, but 2 or 3 people are just getting zilcho healing from that and die. Ugh!

    It's just so frustrating coming from a class with so much control that I know exactly who will get healed by my PoH and in 2 casts I get all 10 raid members a heal. This MW healing feels like healing with a blindfold on. I can't really see what's going on, I don't really know who is getting healed.

    Then there is chi ... my tendency as Holy is to horde mana for a burst phase, then start saving up again. In real life i hate spending cash as it comes in, I save it up. Chi is so counter to my whole philosophy. I want to spend 5 minutes at 4 chi so I'm prepared for that big damage spike in phase 42 of the fight. Ok, i jest, but I did put an annoying sound in to warn me when I have 4 chi so I dont "waste" mana like a dumbass, but all that does is annoy the hell out of me and interrupt me in the middle of doing something else (like get that damn ReM out, let's see... No, not you you have one ... No, not you you're at 100% ... No, not you you have that "don't heal me" debuff on you ... Oh crap whatever I'll just ReM the tank) then suddenly the sound comes: BLAM! 4 Chi, BLAM! 4 Chi then I think "oh, crap I'm a baddie now if i don't dump this Chi ... hmm, should I Chi wave or Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick or ... Crap now NO One has ReM on them so forget Uplift. I'm constantly interrupted by cooldowns or chi. It's almost like I'm not even in control of what I am doing, the class is controlling me.

    So, any advice? Did others go through a similar awkward phase getting the hang of this weird thing called a Mistweaver Monk?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    OK, so i'm a Priest healer trying to get the hang of MW as my alt and I have the same frustrations already expressed and more. ReM really bothers me, I know to use it on cooldown, but when I get to cast it again I usually go searching all over my raid frames looking for a suitable target. What I usually find are low-health players with a ReM already ticking, 100% players with no ReM, and a tank that is a few seconds away from losing ReM. I feel inefficient putting ReM on someone at 100%, so I tend to ReM the tank with a few seconds left. I know that's a waste (or is it?) of a tick. So then I started to make a mental note of who to ReM next when I cast it (planning ahead) which never works either because by the time I can cast it again my pre-planned target is already swimming in a fresh ReM. So I feel like I'm either constantly micromanaging ReM and neglecting everything else, or I get distracted and during a big damage burst only then realize I only have 2 or 3 ReM out. Ugh!

    The whole random healing thing is also very unnerving, and in 10man I am constantly starting to do something and then canceling that by doing something else when I realize that it's no longer the something I should be doing: starting a SM channel and then suddenly interrupting it with a ReM only to realize that I cast ReM on the same person I just interrupted my SM on. Ugh! Oh, and they had a few seconds on ReM already so double UGH!

    And when I finally get ReM going on 6 or 7 people, and a big damage burst comes, I jabx2 uplift, jabx2 uplift, but 2 or 3 people are just getting zilcho healing from that and die. Ugh!

    It's just so frustrating coming from a class with so much control that I know exactly who will get healed by my PoH and in 2 casts I get all 10 raid members a heal. This MW healing feels like healing with a blindfold on. I can't really see what's going on, I don't really know who is getting healed.

    Then there is chi ... my tendency as Holy is to horde mana for a burst phase, then start saving up again. In real life i hate spending cash as it comes in, I save it up. Chi is so counter to my whole philosophy. I want to spend 5 minutes at 4 chi so I'm prepared for that big damage spike in phase 42 of the fight. Ok, i jest, but I did put an annoying sound in to warn me when I have 4 chi so I dont "waste" mana like a dumbass, but all that does is annoy the hell out of me and interrupt me in the middle of doing something else (like get that damn ReM out, let's see... No, not you you have one ... No, not you you're at 100% ... No, not you you have that "don't heal me" debuff on you ... Oh crap whatever I'll just ReM the tank) then suddenly the sound comes: BLAM! 4 Chi, BLAM! 4 Chi then I think "oh, crap I'm a baddie now if i don't dump this Chi ... hmm, should I Chi wave or Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick or ... Crap now NO One has ReM on them so forget Uplift. I'm constantly interrupted by cooldowns or chi. It's almost like I'm not even in control of what I am doing, the class is controlling me.

    So, any advice? Did others go through a similar awkward phase getting the hang of this weird thing called a Mistweaver Monk?

    First problem sounds UI related, are you making use of a decently sized indicator on your raid frames to show ReM? It should take half a second tops to see who needs it, golden rule would be to never cast it on someone who already has it because as you said it's incredibly inefficient but it can also cause the spreads to bug. You should always keep in mind that your ReM will spread to the lowest health target, so if you cast it on someone with full health and someone else who is taking damage has their buff expire (such as the tank), it will immediately spread back to them.

    Second problem is timing related, you're supposed to utilize Thunder Focus Tea approximately 14 seconds in advance of any high damage phase or burst so you can cover a more sizeable portion of your raid. If you're confused about the nature of how ReM spreads;


    Keep in mind, this chart assumes no haste buffs so it's only for you to visualize how it works. One thing you should take note of is how it takes ReM 16 seconds to reach it's unbuffed potential, make that around 20 if you're going for the absolute best uptime on TFT. So to conclude, if you have absolutely no ReM on the raid it will take you 34 seconds or thereabouts to get absolutely prepared for a large intake of damage.

    As to your philosophy, try taking Chi Brew. That way you should feel comfortable spending your Chi knowing you have more on immediate demand. Remember you can always spend Chi on Blackout Kick to get a steady stream of healing on your raid which rarely goes to overhealing.

    That's really all I can say, MW plays completely differently to other healers and it can be a bit overwhelming at the start but stick with it and you'll have a lot of fun.

  16. #76
    That graph is pretty awesome.

    Just going in that topic of the optimal TfT use assuming the monk has the haste required for the 2nd haste breakpoint on ReM or 16.66%, then your ReM will tick every 1.71 sec and have a duration of 18.81 sec. From this, using TfT in between the 17 - 18 or 19 - 20 second interval would be the optimal use for TfT since you manage to refresh 2 full sets of ReM + 2 HoTs from a 3rd set. Between the 18 - 19 sec interval the 1st ReM of the 1st set is about to run out and the 3rd ReM of the 3rd set still hasn't spread thus it's a bit more "risky" to use when evaluating maximum ReM refresh via TfT.

  17. #77
    Thanks for the info @Dumbfoundead! I will stick it out and get the hang of it eventually. I think I just need to get my gear up and get more experience with it. I can see the ReM on the raid it's just such a weird/random mechanic I find it hard to predict what to do next. I will relax my fears of placing ReM on someone at 100% as I realize it will hop to someone once they take damage. At the moment whenever I have to go into emergency heal mode I run through my mana very fast.

  18. #78
    Mechagnome Ilir's Avatar
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    Mmh... I'll have to count in my head ? Oh god... I'm so bad at maths x) But yeah... that graph is so great ! I'll just have to learn to count to ~20

    When the raid is not taking any aoeomfgdamage I have to spend my chi using Blackout Kick (assuming I already have Tiger Palm buff) and when my raid is getting aoeomfgdamaged I have to spend my chi using Uplift ? Is that right or not ?

    I have another question : what lvl 30 spell is best ? I use chi wave... And should I use chi wave whenever it is up (assuming my raid is not getting aoeomfgdamaged) ?

    Sorry if I'm not clear enough or something like that... english is like my 5th language !
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Mmh... I'll have to count in my head ? Oh god... I'm so bad at maths x) But yeah... that graph is so great ! I'll just have to learn to count to ~20

    When the raid is not taking any aoeomfgdamage I have to spend my chi using Blackout Kick (assuming I already have Tiger Palm buff) and when my raid is getting aoeomfgdamaged I have to spend my chi using Uplift ? Is that right or not ?

    I have another question : what lvl 30 spell is best ? I use chi wave... And should I use chi wave whenever it is up (assuming my raid is not getting aoeomfgdamaged) ?

    Sorry if I'm not clear enough or something like that... english is like my 5th language !
    Code:
    dqd5baGEIO2Lu02ijZKiy2G6MuQ8nOANczVODly)KsdtPgNqnys0WLOdse5yaohKSqIKLsuzXevTCf9qs4PQwMu1Zb53sAQkmzkmDrxKO4QePEguUUs2iK62KQntrBxQCAcxMQptjFNO0JLcxIi0OLsgVuQtsPQBrPCniopj10a6VKIdlHjah868g8gCWBwd5fs2zewpFJkCDYbJai6yauG4Xi9BqmammCmAAdbHryenYgabhhdF3RcCVJ7PPneqM8gcOs4c1dVDYlXs(PBjQHH6sNp92jFofww(Kd(uDPZ7DEi5HwY7DEi)Y0u0MxJcj9HMlTcfY8ZBSMfPOg4X49opK8kQ6YxKAvkHQfpuPddhvO78Y5bxwrWsRs7eqj)cY1av6WWrf6oLIhQUMn8vqK8LWfQ9j)cY1avxZg(kiskf)k4DEi5tHUBWKxwHr2IOrqbSrHhhVbbqIra300gioVznK8Ya3jT9AvIUgs(WsFmfww(eIra8TCHvRKObr2yQ2Oa6Xq1RsfconTbIZlm4LZoTkhcDFYdxlm4GFwHDo41xWPGdMmzYKhIhOjyt8MX8DmcaCVzsca
    This will count down from 3 every time you cast ReM and;

    Code:
    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    Will count the amount of ReM you have active on the raid and how long until the one with the shortest duration expires. Those two are WeakAuras imports, you can find WeakAuras on the curse addon site.

    As for Chi expenditure, it's almost always worth keeping Serpent's Zeal up and being in melee range of the boss as none of our instant cast time spells (and Chi Burst) actually reset our swing timer. As long as you know you won't be making heavy use of SCK during the 30 seconds it's up or will be out of range of the boss, SZ should be up.
    Last edited by Dumbfoundead; 2013-01-29 at 05:58 PM.

  20. #80
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    907
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Code:
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    This will count down from 3 every time you cast ReM and;

    Code:
    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    Will count the amount of ReM you have active on the raid and how long until the one with the shortest duration expires. Those two are WeakAuras imports, you can find WeakAuras on the curse addon site.

    As for Chi expenditure, it's almost always worth keeping Serpent's Zeal up and being in melee range of the boss as none of our instant cast time spells (and Chi Burst) actually reset our swing timer. As long as you know you won't be making heavy use of SCK during the 30 seconds it's up or will be out of range of the boss, SZ should be up.
    Hmm i dont get WA to count down for me if that was meant for the first string you posted :S

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