The Serpent’s Accord: A Mistweaver PvE Guide [5.4]

[Deleted]

Why is being able to spam uplift for very little mana a good design? I mean, sure, it's great for us, as it makes us awesome raid healers. But other raid healing doesn't have nearly the throughput nor the mana efficiency, at least in my experience. Well, unless you're a disc priest, but they're dirty cheaters.

Maybe if they gave us some more Chi dumps we wouldn't have to spend it on Uplift at every given moment so our regen isn't gimped.

[Astraios]

Because spamming uplift is a 3s cast for 500k blanket healing with a large portion of overhealing if your other healers aren't downsy. IE....once overheal comes in, not any higher than other healers. Just ours will RNG and sometimes heal for much higher or much lower, ala fire mages. As well, we lack any amount of control, meaning if we don't have slightly higher healing (due to innate overhealing) we will lack the ability to compete with other healers. Without the ability to jab, uplift becomes a eight second cast, which is COMPLETLEY absurd and dogshit for healing. Soothing is not reliable enough nor high enough healing to ever provide enough HPS, regardless of its HPM.

Of course, this is assuming they realize how dumb they're being, and nerf the rest of our abilities which allow us to do insane throughput HPS (Which, without any good smart heals [eminence range is shit, and I view any healing I get from it as bonus, it's not reliable in any way shape or form at 20yd range] we require higher throughput, but that makes us stronger on garalon/tsulong fights.) These being chi torpedo and SCK, namely. Unless they touch those, we'll hardly change.

[Luqt]

The thing is, we must all recognize that when uplift healing IS needed, our throughput is generally higher than the other healers without taking into consideration throughput cooldowns or even skill level (which is assumed to be equal). Aside from that, do we bring anything new aside from our current DPS thing that an off tank can do easily?

If they want our healing to be based around soothing mist they'll need to almost revamp the way our chi is generated and used as a mistweaver since generating 1 chi at a 30% chance per tick is bullshit but if it were 100% per tick then it would also be bullshit since it would be too powerful. Since we're so dependent on chi (this is a good thing and something I enjoy about playing a monk), I think they need to make it easier for us to generate chi, give us more guaranteed chi generating alternatives other than jab and EH. Because that's what we like, having a constant and smooth chi flow, not fucking procs which make our healing completely unreliable.

This is just a wicked idea I had and it might be really stupid but what if they doubled our chi pool and cost to chi abilities? For example, we would have a maximum of 8 chi to store, an uplift would cost 4 chi. Additionally, your soothing mist would generate 1 chi every tick, and your jab would generate 2 chi (like they do with Tiger Stance). What implications would this have? Firstly, you would definitely want to soothe more often, but if you needed quick chi for an uplift you would have to either be ready for it (something we already practice on live, chi pooling) or wait patiently for around 3 - 4 seconds channeling SM or use a relatively mana expensive jab in 2 gcds. It would maintain GC's intention of penalizing monks who jab to uplift, however you can still use jab to fistweave since you would get considerable mana returns from TP. Haste would become a more interesting stat for us since getting a quicker soothing mist channel would mean more chi gen. Just some thoughts of someone who has no clue of how Blizzard wants us to play :P

[Tatuin]

From the blue post

We’re currently still planning to let Tiger Palm always restore 2% mana. Yes, this is a potential way to convert chi into mana efficiently, but it still doesn’t generate as much mana as it cost to generate that chi, so isn’t mana positive. And the healing it provides, without Muscle Memory, is rather small. It’s definitely something we’ve noticed and are keeping an eye on, though.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 10:07 PM ----------

. Just some thoughts of someone who has no clue of how Blizzard wants us to play :P

I think most of us is like that atm :P

[Dreyo]

This is just a wicked idea I had and it might be really stupid but what if they doubled our chi pool and cost to chi abilities? For example, we would have a maximum of 8 chi to store, an uplift would cost 4 chi. Additionally, your soothing mist would generate 1 chi every tick, and your jab would generate 2 chi (like they do with Tiger Stance). What implications would this have? Firstly, you would definitely want to soothe more often, but if you needed quick chi for an uplift you would have to either be ready for it (something we already practice on live, chi pooling) or wait patiently for around 3 - 4 seconds channeling SM or use a relatively mana expensive jab in 2 gcds. It would maintain GC's intention of penalizing monks who jab to uplift, however you can still use jab to fistweave since you would get considerable mana returns from TP. Haste would become a more interesting stat for us since getting a quicker soothing mist channel would mean more chi gen. Just some thoughts of someone who has no clue of how Blizzard wants us to play :P

It would be simpler to steal the warlock mechanic and have SM generate a Chi every other tick. Same math result as your system, but lots less disruption.

[Luqt]

It would be simpler to steal the warlock mechanic and have SM generate a Chi every other tick. Same math result as your system, but lots less disruption.

That's not fun... I wanted something new! lol

[Spotnick]

People say that there's no way to reliably generate chi, but the times when I've thought "Crap, I really wish I were getting more chi, why am I so unlucky?!" when using Soothing are few and far between. It isn't as unreliable as people seem to believe.

It might not be often, but when it causes wipe, it sucks. Soothing Mist will never be useful until they remove RNG from chi generation on it. Or at least make expel harm not break it, i found it stupid that I needed to do surging mist to get the last chi i needed for some enveloping mist.

[Gorsameth]

It might not be often, but when it causes wipe, it sucks. Soothing Mist will never be useful until they remove RNG from chi generation on it. Or at least make expel harm not break it, i found it stupid that I needed to do surging mist to get the last chi i needed for some enveloping mist.

Do you sit there channeling it while your raid is taking 100k+ ticks just twiddeling your thumbs untill you can cast uplift?

[Deleted]

These changes deeply upset me, If I was my raid leader planning for 5.2 Heroic progress I wouldn't even be considering monk healers at all, not in comparison to other more stable healers, its getting absolutely ridiculous, why doesn't ghostcrawler just say he hates Mistweavers in general and just bin the spec, its a shame that this is the most fun I've had playing a class/spec in years, and I feel utterly useless

[Luqt]

These changes deeply upset me, If I was my raid leader planning for 5.2 Heroic progress I wouldn't even be considering monk healers at all, not in comparison to other more stable healers, its getting absolutely ridiculous, why doesn't ghostcrawler just say he hates Mistweavers in general and just bin the spec, its a shame that this is the most fun I've had playing a class/spec in years, and I feel utterly useless

You have the right to feel whatever you please with respect to Blizzard's changes for mistweavers. However, I must firstly ask if you have tried PTR? It's not as bad as you claim it to be, although the T30 talent changes are even worse than what they sound like lol

[Deleted]

You have the right to feel whatever you please with respect to Blizzard's changes for mistweavers. However, I must firstly ask if you have tried PTR? It's not as bad as you claim it to be, although the T30 talent changes are even worse than what they sound like lol

The changes people are complaining about are on the internal builds, well apart from T30 anyway.

[Luqt]

The changes people are complaining about are on the internal builds, well apart from T30 anyway.

Internal builds, wha - what? :P

Please do elaborate, it seems like I'm missing something again

[Deleted]

How the PTR works, They iterate on internal builds (Blizzard only), publish to the external builds (PTR) and reiterate that process until they feel it's fit for live. Usually they're a good number of builds ahead of us.

[Luqt]

How the PTR works, They iterate on internal builds (Blizzard only), publish to the external builds (PTR) and reiterate that process until they feel it's fit for live. Usually they're a good number of builds ahead of us.

Thanks for mentioning this

Is there anyway of finding out more about this, specifically the internal build that's causing several users to complain about "having to use SM" in particular?

[Deleted]

Greg mentioned it in a blue post somewhere.

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 08:19 AM ----------

Oh and not sure if you want to put this in the OP but I used my tick calc function to draw a relationship between haste %, the amount of ticks and Renewing Mist duration.



I think it illustrates pretty clearly why you shouldn't be between breakpoints.

[Gorsameth]

Thanks for mentioning this

Is there anyway of finding out more about this, specifically the internal build that's causing several users to complain about "having to use SM" in particular?

The quote in question is somewhere in the jab nerf thread i believe. The specific case was Ghostcrawler mentioning there latest internal build had Jab's mana cost increased by 33%.

[Totaltotemic]

The quote in question is somewhere in the jab nerf thread i believe. The specific case was Ghostcrawler mentioning there latest internal build had Jab's mana cost increased by 33%.

That's correct. The latest Jab nerf, glyph of Uplift nerf, T15 set bonus nerf, and increase of TP mana return to 2% are not on the PTR yet. It's going to get considerably worse before 5.2 goes live.

[Deleted]

The Capacitative Primal Diamond is only worth around 3.4k DPS or ~ 2K HPS which really isn't worth losing a clearcasting mechanic, that's for one handeds at least. Since they use the highest of any of your haste values the 40% increase of melee haste from WotM makes it proc a bit more leaving it around ~4200 dps with a 2 hander and 2520. Still not really worth using at all though.

[Astraios]

I'm not sure the t15 set bonus nerf changes all that much. With near-perfect timing we should still be able to line up the 3 ReMs on the raid pretty much perfectly with TFT, where as 35 and 45 are both before/after the important point. 35 gives more room for error, sure, but not sure it really matters. On the other hand the 2pc is amazing 0.o

Completely off-topic but, It felt bad for a druid to be near equaling my healing on the heroic raid testing </3, dislike 10m :c (for reference, I was doing 110-120k, he was doing 100-105ish) [also this was only at the beginning of the fight, psure as the fight went on it puled ahead.] #badhealerproblems

[Deleted]

I'm not sure the t15 set bonus nerf changes all that much. With near-perfect timing we should still be able to line up the 3 ReMs on the raid pretty much perfectly with TFT, where as 35 and 45 are both before/after the important point. 35 gives more room for error, sure, but not sure it really matters. On the other hand the 2pc is amazing 0.o

Completely off-topic but, It felt bad for a druid to be near equaling my healing on the heroic raid testing </3, dislike 10m :c (for reference, I was doing 110-120k, he was doing 100-105ish) [also this was only at the beginning of the fight, psure as the fight went on it puled ahead.] #badhealerproblems

alot of people have been hammering the 2 set, but I didn't see how with awesome TfT management it wasn't ridiculously good