1. #281
    Deleted
    Would make sense, spirit will always give more "smooth" returns though. Might add a sheet to the spreadsheet for some more depth :P
    Last edited by mmoc3f252392be; 2013-03-02 at 10:16 PM.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    I was just reflecting on some notes from 5.2 and suddenly I realized we don't have a concrete mp5 value per point of crit. Obviously it'll depend on mana tea but lets say an average use of 2 mana tea stacks every 18 seconds which would be fair for 5.2.

    1 point of crit rating = 0.00167% (to 3 s.f.)

    Average mana gained from 1 crit point = 12000 * 0.00167 = 20

    Mp5 value of 1 crit point when generating 1 mana tea stack every 9 sec = (20/9) * 5 = 11 mp5

    I mean, I don't think any of my assumptions are wrong or unrealistic. I just threw it out here since I'm really confused with the result which would suggest crit's mp5 value to be 20 times superior to the mp5 value of spirit in combat??? lol
    Yeah the mana return from crit has been huge since they added that, that's the biggest reason why I complain about people going 12k Spirit but still gemming Spirit.

    There's a price to be paid for that mana return though, it can be very unreliable (sample size of only 30-50 mana tea events per encounter means it'll vary wildly), it takes more GCDs to consume that Mana Tea on its set schedule (which can interfere with periods of high healing), and the fact that there are simply some fights where Mana Tea generation drops considerably (Lei Shi's Hides and Protects come to mind, Healing Sphere, Chi Torpedo, and now T30 talents will cut into generation time). While it would take a lot of those interfering factors to bring Spirit over crit for any one pull, you don't want to be stuck in that situation where you suddenly don't have mana because you geared for 6,000 Spirit and 10k crit instead of the other way around.

  3. #283
    Deleted
    Using a much more "real" calculation method instead of averaging everything shows crit at surprise surprise, about 20 times less in terms of MP5 at the worst and worth double at best.

    Edit: Scratch that, bad calculation, 3 times WORSE than spirit in best conditions
    Last edited by mmoc3f252392be; 2013-03-02 at 10:49 PM.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    There's a price to be paid for that mana return though, it can be very unreliable (sample size of only 30-50 mana tea events per encounter means it'll vary wildly), it takes more GCDs to consume that Mana Tea on its set schedule (which can interfere with periods of high healing), and the fact that there are simply some fights where Mana Tea generation drops considerably (Lei Shi's Hides and Protects come to mind, Healing Sphere, Chi Torpedo, and now T30 talents will cut into generation time). While it would take a lot of those interfering factors to bring Spirit over crit for any one pull, you don't want to be stuck in that situation where you suddenly don't have mana because you geared for 6,000 Spirit and 10k crit instead of the other way around.
    I was just surprised at its theoretical mp5 value since I never considered it this way, in practical terms we all know the consequences of relying on probabilities lol

    I then observed a recent log where I consumed 27 * 2 mana stacks and used 197 chi on an 8 min encounter. Either the RNG gods decided crits were not to be on my side for that encounter or I was just really unlucky because standing at around 25% crit in a raid group, only 12% of my mana tea stacks got doubled :P

    The other thing to note is that I was jabbing fairly frequently for chi and yet my average mana tea consumption (2 stacks) was at almost every 18 seconds.

  5. #285
    Dreadlord Chuupag's Avatar
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    So just had a thought last night when I was calling to my shadow priest for a hymn, would it be better for me to unglyph mana tea so I can take huge advantage with the hymn increasing my mana pool -> bigger actual mana per % gained from tea. Once per fight yes(well technically twice since we have a disc priest too) but a 15% increase in efficiency for 8 stacks of tea if I time it right. Gcds aren't really going to be much of an issue anymore come 5.2. Any thoughts?

  6. #286
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Any thoughts?
    I'm actually in the same position and dumped the glyph quite some time ago (playing with glyph of SCK, ReM and Zen Med). Most fights (all I've done so far, that includes everything but Sha & Tsulong on hc, 10 man) give you more than enough breathing room to channel Mana Tea without the need to actively heal anyone (keeping ReM & Expel Harm on CD though). Also, I kind of hate the glyphed Mana Tea gameplay and feel more comfortable having my mana battery on demand.

  7. #287
    I'm glad someone has taken up the reigns of handling the Mistweaver Guide.
    Ty for crediting me .

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Yeah the mana return from crit has been huge since they added that, that's the biggest reason why I complain about people going 12k Spirit but still gemming Spirit.

    There's a price to be paid for that mana return though, it can be very unreliable (sample size of only 30-50 mana tea events per encounter means it'll vary wildly), it takes more GCDs to consume that Mana Tea on its set schedule (which can interfere with periods of high healing), and the fact that there are simply some fights where Mana Tea generation drops considerably (Lei Shi's Hides and Protects come to mind, Healing Sphere, Chi Torpedo, and now T30 talents will cut into generation time). While it would take a lot of those interfering factors to bring Spirit over crit for any one pull, you don't want to be stuck in that situation where you suddenly don't have mana because you geared for 6,000 Spirit and 10k crit instead of the other way around.
    I think this is why going to the extremes of either stacking all spirit or all crit is never offered up as an option on these forums. Its all about finding that good balance of spirit vs. crit that only the individual can answer for themselves as none of us can say whats best for that person because play style and raid comp will ultimately determine these levels.

    With a balanced approach we can afford to wait a couple of seconds after the CD comes up to hit Mana Tea during a period of high healing and not be completely screwed because we still have natural regen to fall back onto. Sure on paper this might not be optimal but at the end of the day I would much rather have a boss kill than having a few extra usages of Mana Tea.

  9. #289
    Deleted
    We changed RealPPM to use your true melee haste or spell haste (whichever is higher) to scale the proc rate instead of attack speed or casting speed. The difference is that things that buff your attack speed (such as the raid buff or Slice and Dice) do not increase the frequency of RPPM procs. True haste boosts, such as Bloodlust or haste rating on gear will improve proc rate. We felt this change was necessary to balance proc rates among different specs.
    This is a good change, no need to worry about getting 2 handed caster weapons for RPPM procs now.

  10. #290
    Dreadlord Chuupag's Avatar
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    So I noticed the wording change on Zen Sphere. The wording was that it would detonate when the recipient got to 35%, it was dispelled, or it finished its duration. It now just reads "reaches 35% health or the Zen Sphere is dispelled".

    Nerf or tooltip error?
    Last edited by Chuupag; 2013-03-05 at 12:53 AM.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    So I noticed the wording change on Zen Sphere. The wording was that it would detonate when the recipient got to 35%, it was dispelled, or it finished its duration. It now just reads "reaches 35% health or the Zen Sphere is dispelled".

    Nerf or tooltip error?
    The notes don't mention it, but the spell tooltip still does. They might've forgotten to add that condition to the official notes :P

  12. #292
    How good is the Valor Trinket ? Currently have Tsulong trinket and Relic

  13. #293
    Deleted
    The 3 minute shado pan assault one is quite bad, if the fight doesn't end shortly after you used the trinket it's MP5 value plummets even compared to normal mode t14

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomy View Post
    How good is the Valor Trinket ? Currently have Tsulong trinket and Relic
    Using it on CD would yield an average 828 mp5 (lol)... it's ok-ish in theory if you use it like Reglitch mentioned; on CD and getting lucky to use it towards the end of the encounter, its CD is what makes it less attractive.

    In general, it's worse than T14 heroic trinkets and an upgraded Relic of Chi-Ji.

    And sorry for the misleading information, I should learn to doublecheck what I post more often.
    Last edited by Luqt; 2013-03-07 at 09:12 AM.

  15. #295
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    Does anyone have the shield trinkets yet, I'd very much like to know if they scale with spellpower because if they don't they're looking to be quite bad

  16. #296
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    Using it on CD proves a maximum of 166 mp5... it's terrible. Keep your Tsulong and Relic trinkets :P

    It's worse than at least T14 LFR trinkets to put things in perspective, I'll add this later today.
    I feel completely lost by this mp5 number.

    3 minute cooldown = 180s
    29805 mana per 180s = 165.58 mps
    165.58 mps * 5s = 827.9 mp5
    827.9 mp5 / .56435 mp5 per spirit = 1467 spirit at its maximal interval
    In the middle of intervals would show higher.
    1467 spirit is higher than the average value of heroic spirits of the sun 0/2 or at least very close depending on how favorable the fight timing is

    Am I just missing something?
    Last edited by Chimaera; 2013-03-07 at 04:44 AM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
    I feel completely lost by this mp5 number.

    3 minute cooldown = 180s
    29805 mana per 180s = 165.58 mps
    165.58 mps * 5s = 827.9 mp5
    827.9 mp5 / .56435 mp5 per spirit = 1467 spirit at its maximal interval
    In the middle of intervals would show higher.
    1467 spirit is higher than the average value of heroic spirits of the sun 0/2 or at least very close depending on how favorable the fight timing is

    Am I just missing something?
    He didn't multiply the mp/s by 5, that's what happened.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    He didn't multiply the mp/s by 5, that's what happened.

    To be honest I didn't even consider why I got such a low mp5 value, should've realized it was only mp/s. >.<

    And during the process I just gave misleading information, my bad. I'll edit that :x
    Last edited by Luqt; 2013-03-07 at 09:13 AM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    To be honest I didn't even consider why I got such a low mp5 value, should've realized it was only mp/s. >.<

    And during the process I just gave misleading information, my bad. I'll edit that :x
    It's an honest mistake, I've done it before and will likely do it again in the near future.

  20. #300
    Deleted
    Last time i made the calculations, the shadow pan trinket was quite good, even better than Horridon's in term of mana regen.

    But well, it will be op on a 6/9min fight, but very very less useful on a 5min30 or 8min 30 fight

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