The Serpent’s Accord: A Mistweaver PvE Guide [5.4]

[Totaltotemic]

There's a MW perk that increases ReM's duration by 2 seconds, so it's actually 20 seconds base.

[Geodew]

There's a MW perk that increases ReM's duration by 2 seconds, so it's actually 20 seconds base.

Oh, interesting. I think I saw those, but totally forgot. In which case, same theory; different numbers.

[womd]

Is anyone else worried about mistweaver's ability to react to damage in WOD?

In current content we are gated by how fast we can generate and spend chi. We are gated by chi so we can't "spam" with our instant spells.
with WOD we will have lower chi gen, higher GCD (this may not be a problem depending on haste levels), and cast time on uplift. Does this sound like a double gate for mistweaver that other healers don't have to worry about? Will the solution be that we have to always pool chi, or will blizz finally be able to pull off the "triage" healing style and quick spamming of heals won't be as important?

thoughts?

[Gorsameth]

Is anyone else worried about mistweaver's ability to react to damage in WOD?

In current content we are gated by how fast we can generate and spend chi. We are gated by chi so we can't "spam" with our instant spells.
with WOD we will have lower chi gen, higher GCD (this may not be a problem depending on haste levels), and cast time on uplift. Does this sound like a double gate for mistweaver that other healers don't have to worry about? Will the solution be that we have to always pool chi, or will blizz finally be able to pull off the "triage" healing style and quick spamming of heals won't be as important?

thoughts?

Try the WoD thread for WoD stuff.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post26663867

[Lykke]

Just a quick question, or two.

1. Is spirit above mastery? I've hit the 9158 haste breakpoint, and have tons of crit. I know our mastery scaling is bad, but is it still better than extra spirit?

2. Related to extra spirit, is it worth speccing RJW if I take that extra spirit, even in 10-man?

(sorry for breaking to WoD conversations ahaha)

[Leblue]

Just a quick question, or two.

1. Is spirit above mastery? I've hit the 9158 haste breakpoint, and have tons of crit. I know our mastery scaling is bad, but is it still better than extra spirit?

2. Related to extra spirit, is it worth speccing RJW if I take that extra spirit, even in 10-man?

(sorry for breaking to WoD conversations ahaha)

Crit > Haste to chosen breakpoint > Spirit

So yeah, always take spirit over mastery. Mastery scalars are too bad for it to be worth anything unless you feel like dumping everything you have in it for a loss but you do get to turn the raid into a ball pit like at chuck-e cheese.

[Sonrisa]

I'll take mastery over spirit any day of the week. Mastery scales terribly, but spirit is literally worth nothing. You can NOT go oom even at 0 spirit, getting to the hit cap is trivial (5100) and you will have well over it even reforging all spirit away even in mediocre gear. Mastery is bad, but it's not as bad as spirit, specially with t16 2 piece and Enduring Sphere Glyph.

[Geodew]

I'll take mastery over spirit any day of the week. Mastery scales terribly, but spirit is literally worth nothing. You can NOT go oom even at 0 spirit, getting to the hit cap is trivial (5100) and you will have well over it even reforging all spirit away even in mediocre gear. Mastery is bad, but it's not as bad as spirit, specially with t16 2 piece and Enduring Sphere Glyph.

I agree with Sonrisa. Leblue's point that Mastery is relatively bad, while mostly correct, does not seem to take into account that Spirit isn't that useful either. Sonrisa is correct that it gets somewhat worthwhile with the 2T16 and Enduring Healing Sphere glyph. Once it comes down to choosing between equal amounts of the two of them, I usually choose Mastery.

I actually feel like there's something to be said for having a small bit of Mastery, in fact. Like, a very rough soft cap sort of thing where there's a high probability for a healing sphere or two to be nearby someone who realizes they need an emergency heal to live. Assuming Enduring Healing Sphere, though, that would be pretty low rating, though, maybe 3500-5500. I realized this when I saw a significant, noticeable drop in GotS spheres switching from galakras staff to arcweaver+power core (losing like 2000 mastery?). Smart and skilled players can, for example, use them to burst themselves back up if they mess up on Heroic Malkorok. I'm definitely not saying to stack Mastery over Crit, but I am saying not to undervalue having incidental small amounts of it from mastery/X gear that you've reforged.

[Leblue]

I'll take mastery over spirit any day of the week. Mastery scales terribly, but spirit is literally worth nothing. You can NOT go oom even at 0 spirit, getting to the hit cap is trivial (5100) and you will have well over it even reforging all spirit away even in mediocre gear. Mastery is bad, but it's not as bad as spirit, specially with t16 2 piece and Enduring Sphere Glyph.

The more spirit I have, the less time I spend channeling mana tea. The less time channeling mana tea, the more time I'm dealing damage or healing. The more damage or healing I'm able to put out the more useful I am to my raid rather than the monk with 5.1k spirit who's sitting there channeling roughly 25% of the fight instead of contributing because "guys I *might* get a few extra orbs that you *might* use or ignore!". Spirit is always beneficial as a throughput increase for us whereas mastery can or can not be and the amount of mastery you need for a truly noticeable difference isn't worth getting.

If you really want to put your extra stats into master by all means go ahead, but you'll get more bang for your buck if you just put it into spirit instead.

Smart and skilled players can, for example, use them to burst themselves back up if they mess up on Heroic Malkorok. I'm definitely not saying to stack Mastery over Crit, but I am saying not to undervalue having incidental small amounts of it from mastery/X gear that you've reforged.

Alternatively you can pump surging mists into people instead of relying them to be able to distinguish which orbs are good, which are bad, and hoping to jesus they don't run into bad ones anyway. Right now as it stands with the scalars, you're better off with the flat increase of just taking the extra spirit. To add icing on the cake though since you're talking about mastery orbs and "more orbs from mastery" how about that time you spend doing something instead of drinking you're also giving more opportunities to proc orbs with a proc rate that's probably going to be quite similar to what you have even if you've got a few percent more mastery.

[Spotnick]

The more spirit you have, the more you'll be able to keep Rushing Jade Wind up or so some glyphed Surging Mists.

I wouldn't say spirit is bad. Mastery on the other hand will always required people running into orbs.. so, more smart heals vs more smart raiders, you decide.

[Sonrisa]

The amounts of spirit we are talking about account for an extremely small amount of our total regen (less than 5%), get real. I have rank 2 on Malkorok with literally as little spirit as possible so yeah forgive me if I'm scheptichal that it increases throughput or that I'm spending 1/4th of the fight just chilling, cause it just doesnt work that way. Going from 9k spirit to 10k spirit means jackshit for me since I'm not ooming anyaway with 12k haste RJW and puming surgings, on the other hand going from 2k to 3k mastery I find a lot more significant.

[Geodew]

The amounts of spirit we are talking about account for an extremely small amount of our total regen (less than 5%), get real. I have rank 2 on Malkorok with literally as little spirit as possible so yeah forgive me if I'm scheptichal that it increases throughput or that I'm spending 1/4th of the fight just chilling, cause it just doesnt work that way. Going from 9k spirit to 10k spirit means jackshit for me since I'm not ooming anyaway with 12k haste RJW and puming surgings, on the other hand going from 2k to 3k mastery I find a lot more significant.

I'd wager all of us Mistweaver thinkers have some good rankings. I'm also not convinced you wouldn't be able to make the same rank with Spirit instead of Mastery.

Having said that, I still agree with Sonrisa. I'm aware of what Spirit does for us, Leblue, and the subtleties of it, but the dent in total mana recovery that 1000 Spirit makes is quite small, whereas the percentage difference in orbs spawned going from 2k to 3k Mastery (even with the Mastery raid buff) is quite large. Yes, you MIGHT not get any additional healing at all, but we have to talk about mean values, here, and even the dumbest raiders coincidentally walk through orbs. There is no question that with 2T16 we get a sizable amount of healing from them (10-15% of total healing), even when everyone ignores them completely. I estimated this before, and I believe it was no more than 3 GCDs that you gain from less Mana Tea channeling for 1000 Spirit in my gear at the time (and that's assuming you can even find enough opportunities to Surging or SCK that you're concerned about your mana getting too low, and spend 0 mana during those extra GCDs gained), whereas 1k Mastery in my gear is a good +10% orbs (just calculated). As I said, there was a visible, noticeable difference when I lost 1800 Mastery earlier this tier (switching from heroic galakras staff to heroic arcweaver + heroic power core) -- not in my HPS, but the number of orbs that I spawned.

[Sonrisa]

The point I was trying to illustrate is that reforging for mastery > spirit doesn't dramatically reduce your throughput as was suggested by Leblue, by using a practical example on a fight where output is king. Spirit vs Mastery reforging the leftovers has absolutely nothing to to do with weather I can do close to 700k HPS or not, and saying reforging to mastery cuts into your throuput because you will lack mana that you would have otherwise regened through spirit is asinine. The first rule of thumb for weather you have enough spirit or not is are you going OOM? For me, I can not go OOM unless I'm playing like an absoulte retard, hence spirit is of no use to me. I truly believe you can play a mistweaver at 0 spirit and finish a fight with mana because of how ridiculous crit, chi brew and the metagem are. Having said that, I'll take any other stats that might or might not be actually useful under certain circumstances, instead of always useless.

[Pandragon]

How is fistweaver for crap you out gear? Im switching my OS to healer, but I run dungeons with tabards for rep. I love getting exalted with everyone. My MS is WW my OS im leaving is BrM. As a healer I get a quick queue as well, but as BrM I do lots of damage and can clear 5 man heroics quick. Can MW do the same. I'm going to be in Heroic gear.

[Sonrisa]

I tank heroics as a Mistweaver I feel like I do a lot more damage than if I were in my Brewmaster spec, because you don't really have much vengeance in heroics, and MW AoE is pretty OP. On most instances I just pull all the trash mobs to a boss and AoE them down there. Threat might be an issue on bosses if you queue with someone geared, but it's not like they will die anyway with your healing so it's k, and you can always taunt.

[Ghâzh]

So what trinket combo would you use for heroic Garrosh? Finally got both amp trinkets so it's either those or thok/ nazgrim or something in between. Feel like I'm fistweaving most of the fight with resto shaman so probably the amps but what's your opinion?

And speaking of the amp trinkets, is it just me or is Askmrrobot awfully inaccurate with those regarding the haste? The website is showing me at 9167 haste but in game I'm at 9228, what's up with that? Is there any way around it? (I feel like this has already come up at some point but 245 pages zzz)

[Supliftz]

I'm going to assume you're 10 man.

Dual amp all the way.

[Pandragon]

Now I have a real question. Does RJW heal only if I deal damage with it, or does it heal regardless? For example. On Heroic Jugg my group lets him knock us across the map to avoid his missiles. Then we loosely stack for aoe heals. If I pop RJW there will it heal everyone in range with Jugg on the other side of the map?

[iDrunkenheal]

Now I have a real question. Does RJW heal only if I deal damage with it, or does it heal regardless? For example. On Heroic Jugg my group lets him knock us across the map to avoid his missiles. Then we loosely stack for aoe heals. If I pop RJW there will it heal everyone in range with Jugg on the other side of the map?

wouldn't be a very good heal if it didn't. Think of it more like a mobile healing rain with shorter range but does so damage as well.

[Sonrisa]

That is more of a really stupid question than a real question, use it once in shrine of two moons to get your answer.