Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Deleted]

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? There's no shortage of men who thought their gf/wife was on the pill who sabotaged their birth control. No shortage of men who have to pay child support to children who aren't even theirs. Here's a poor dude who is paying child support to a biologically intact family. His wife cheated on him, married the man she cheated on him with and still collects child support from the poor sap.

So no, dear reader, these protections don't exist in America. In fact they don't exist in MANY western countries.

THAT'S what Men's Rights is about.

Just. Use. Condom.

How hard can it be to slip one on if you don't trust the woman?

[Ebildays]

Because the dialog in our society does not permit women to do wrong. Nor does it permit men to be victims. It is because our society views men as disposable servants, beasts of burden. That is why phrases like "man up" exist to shame men into putting the desires of others before their own desires. That is why self sacrifice is the only male trait society celebrates.

Society does not value men as people, it values them as providers, who provision for women and children. Our culture is based on this perception of the male gender, it is as old as humanity itself. Society is currently incapable of considering the desires, suffering, or opinions of men unless they conform with the norm that they should be in service of women. You literally cannot live a day in the western world without seeing a myriad of examples of how men are viewed as disposable servants with no desires of their own.

This is why cutting a man's genitals off is humorous but women being struck even when they are more than deserving of it is a travesty. This is why lifetime alimony, no fault divorce exist but battered men's shelters do not. This is why rape accusers are afforded more protection and their cases more zealously prosecuted than any other crime in our society. This is why thousands of incarcerated men have been exonerated by DNA testing but their false accusers are never charged. This is why suicide rates for men are almost four times higher than suicide rates for women. This is why the vast vast majority of the homeless in North America are men. This is why the spell checker on MMO champion recognized misogyny but not misandry. Try it. Every major spell check system for every word processor on the planet can tell you that misogyny is a real word. A tiny fraction of them will tell you misandry is a real word. There really is not more powerful way to say that our society does not value men as people. It does not consider hating them as a group to even be possible.

You do know that for the better part of society it is men who upheld these standards so if you must blame anyone you have to blame men. For centuries and even in some places now women were/are little more than property whose sole purpose was/is for sex or to have sons. The reason why misandry is not as widely seen as a word has to do with men believing that they were above being hated, not that women are some angels sent from heaven. History tells us that women have been second class to men for the most part not the other way around. We are only seeing this turn around since women became able to work more wide spread therefore being able to take care of themselves without relying on a male to provide for them.

If you look at the root of the problems it circles back to men who are the ones that upheld, and still uphold, the status quo.

[Laize]

Cute. Take a bunch gender inequalities created under patriarchy and then blame women for them... Call it misandry, if you want, but at the end of the day its patriarchy, hypermasculinism, and heteronormativity that puts you into those positions for failing to live up to the ridiculous standards that your own archaic values (the same ones that privileged you as primary agent, pater familias, and property owner for millenia) have wrought for you. I understand the frustration you feel at not being able to live up to what a "man" is supposed to be, but you've been hoodwinked into thinking that it is the people beneath you who have made you subservient rather than the power structures from which you simultaneously derive privilege.

Yeah... I've got so much fucking privilege up in here I'm drowning in it.

The whole "Men have issues because women are oppressed" reeks of appropriation of a cause. Ideas like "Women are allowed to hit men without being hit back because no one thinks women can hurt people" and have it be socially acceptable is ridiculous. Does anyone honestly say that out loud and not think that's the dumbest thing ever?

I saw a Facebook post on Reddit not long ago that laid it out perfectly.

It had this image:



with a post very accurately asking if it would be appropriately reworded as "So I can't wear what I wan't because you're oppressed?"

It's ridiculous. Men can get sent off to die in war, lose custody of their children, pay alimony, get the shit beat out of them, make up 90%+ of workplace fatalities (But if women's share of workplace fatalities go up because men became unemployed in the recession, that's a travesty) and no one bats an eye... because women are oppressed?

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

Again, Bill Burr put it accurately. Yes, women have problems, but at least theirs are taken seriously.

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 04:08 AM ----------

Just. Use. Condom.

How hard can it be to slip one on if you don't trust the woman?

Because you DO wear one if you don't trust her.

But what if you DO trust her and it turns out she deceived you? Oh well? Suck it up?

[DisposableHero]

I understand the frustration you feel at not being able to live up to what a "man" is supposed to be, but you've been hoodwinked into thinking that it is the people beneath you who have made you subservient rather than the power structures from which you simultaneously derive privilege.

If this does not qualify as a blatant attempt to shame me into submission, I'm not sure what does. Thank you for proving my point so succinctly. Its cute.

[Daskapital]

If this does not qualify as a blatant attempt to shame me into submission, I'm not sure what does. Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

I'm a flaming limp-wristed gayboy. I see no shame in not living up to what a "man" is supposed to be, quite the opposite. I merely recognize your frustration and empathize. I think we should be allies precisely because the same power structures that oppress me weigh on you as well only in different ways.

[Deleted]

Because you DO wear one if you don't trust her.

But what if you DO trust her and it turns out she deceived you? Oh well? Suck it up?

To be fair, it sounds like you have real bad trust issues regarding women. It would probably be better for you to not have sex at all. Not everyone is out to get you you know.

[Ebildays]

Because you DO wear one if you don't trust her.

But what if you DO trust her and it turns out she deceived you? Oh well? Suck it up?

You do know that it is mostly men that have a problem with guys looking like girls......you do know that right?

And you should wear a condom every single time, it is not about trust but controlling your own reproductive rights. If you are too lazy to put on a condom how can you complain about an unwanted pregnancy. If you don't want to protect yourself don't expect the woman to do it for you because it is not her job.

[Laize]

To be fair, it sounds like you have real bad trust issues regarding women. It would probably be better for you to not have sex at all. Not everyone is out to get you you know.

I've said many times I'm well aware not everyone is out to get me. Does that mean it's not worth putting up protections against those who are?

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 04:17 AM ----------

You do know that it is mostly men that have a problem with guys looking like girls......you do know that right?

And you should wear a condom every single time, it is not about trust but controlling your own reproductive rights. If you are too lazy to put on a condom how can you complain about an unwanted pregnancy. If you don't want to protect yourself don't expect the woman to do it for you because it is not her job.

And it's mostly women who slut shame each other. That doesn't mean it's something to be left alone.

The point isn't even about men who want to dress like women or anything like that.

The point is that feminism seems to have convinced itself that men's issues stem from women's issues and that, if we all just fought for women's issues then men's would go away. It doesn't work like that. It obviously HASN'T worked like that.

[DisposableHero]

You do know that it is mostly men that have a problem with guys looking like girls......you do know that right?

You do know that most men's rights activists do not blame women for their woes right? It is feminists who characterize the MRM as having an adversarial attitude towards women. We in fact just want the laws to be fair, and the social dialogue about our gender to be positive and respectful.

[Deleted]

I've said many times I'm well aware not everyone is out to get me. Does that mean it's not worth putting up protections against those who are?

You should protect yourself instead of expecting the woman to handle it. If you don't take the the necessary precautions then I have to say you've got yourself to blame.

[Laize]

You should protect yourself instead of expecting the woman to handle it. If you don't take the the necessary precautions then I have to say you've got yourself to blame.

Who the fuck is expecting women to handle it?

Women have, by and large, the most options so they usually are de-facto the ones to handle it. A married couple who trusts each other has no reason to think someone is going to sabotage the birth control anyway. So if the husband trusts his wife why would he feel the need to wear a condom?

And if she cheats and gets pregnant? And he continues to trust her that it's his kid? What then?

[Daskapital]

Yeah... I've got so much fucking privilege up in here I'm drowning in it.

The whole "Men have issues because women are oppressed" reeks of appropriation of a cause. Ideas like "Women are allowed to hit men without being hit back because no one thinks women can hurt people" and have it be socially acceptable is ridiculous. Does anyone honestly say that out loud and not think that's the dumbest thing ever?

I saw a Facebook post on Reddit not long ago that laid it out perfectly.

It had this image:

with a post very accurately asking if it would be appropriately reworded as "So I can't wear what I wan't because you're oppressed?"

It's ridiculous. Men can get sent off to die in war, lose custody of their children, pay alimony, get the shit beat out of them, make up 90%+ of workplace fatalities (But if women's share of workplace fatalities go up because men became unemployed in the recession, that's a travesty) and no one bats an eye... because women are oppressed?

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

Again, Bill Burr put it accurately. Yes, women have problems, but at least theirs are taken seriously.[COLOR="red"]

As a man, no woman has ever physically attacked me for dressing how I want. I have, however been beaten by six dudes with hockey sticks for it. That was definitely not feminism beating the shit out of me.

Bill Burr only gets it half right, because he thinks these problems were somehow created by women. Just think about your own country, what % of the people who make your laws are women?

[Laize]

As a man, no woman has ever physically attacked me for dressing how I want. I have, however been beaten by six dudes with hockey sticks for it. That was definitely not feminism beating the shit out of me.

Bill Burr only gets it half right, because he thinks these problems were somehow created by women. Just think about your own country, what % of the people who make your laws are women?

My country is full of elected representatives where 51% of the electorate is female. Who has whom to blame for the demographic makeup of our legislature?

[DisposableHero]

You should protect yourself instead of expecting the woman to handle it. If you don't take the the necessary precautions then I have to say you've got yourself to blame.

Men don't have access to a non-surgical contraceptive that does not interfere significantly with the sexual process. Women do. Biological reality, not discrimination.

I see no shame in not living up to what a "man" is supposed to be, quite the opposite.

You empathize with what you perceive me to be, not with who I am. I feel no frustration or shame over my gender, only sympathy to those men who have been the victims of societal discrimination. I am proudly and unapologetically male, and your assertions that I am frustrated and have been hoodwinked, or even that I blame women for the current state of affairs are patently false. I do not blame women, I blame feminists. There is a stark, and crucial difference between these two things.

[Daskapital]

My country is full of elected representatives where 51% of the electorate is female. Who has whom to blame for the demographic makeup of our legislature?

51% and your country still has dominion over their wombs...sounds like a real well-organized oppressor right there.

[Deleted]

Men don't have access to a non-surgical contraceptive that does not interfere significantly with the sexual process. Women do. Biological reality, not discrimination.

And men shouldn't use condoms because of that? Just forfeit their personal responsibility because women have a "better" way? Why should the woman be more responsible for it than the man?

[Malkhor]

i think its important to look at the intent before you generalize people as being malicious.

Cause justify the means really isn't applicable to this kind of situation imo.

[DuckieMage]

Men don't have access to a non-surgical contraceptive that does not interfere significantly with the sexual process. Women do. Biological reality, not discrimination.

.....
A CONDOM is a non-surgical contraceptive that does not interfere with the sexual process.
Also, there was a recent thread about a contraceptive for men that is the most affective[effective? I always get those words mixed up..] or something. It works for 10 years and can be reversed at any time.

Heres a article on it, first link I found on google:
http://blogs.laweekly.com/afterdark/...aselgel_ri.php

[FathomFear]

.....
A CONDOM is a non-surgical contraceptive that does not interfere with the sexual process.

I know. I lol'd at the suggestion that it isn't. If it "interferes with the sexual process" for someone, all I can say is that the person is using it wrong.

[Ebildays]

And it's mostly women who slut shame each other. That doesn't mean it's something to be left alone.

The point isn't even about men who want to dress like women or anything like that.

The point is that feminism seems to have convinced itself that men's issues stem from women's issues and that, if we all just fought for women's issues then men's would go away. It doesn't work like that. It obviously HASN'T worked like that.

You do know that most men's rights activists do not blame women for their woes right? It is feminists who characterize the MRM as having an adversarial attitude towards women. We in fact just want the laws to be fair, and the social dialogue about our gender to be positive and respectful.

It is the MRM that gives themselves a bad reputation. Just look at yourselves do you think that what you are doing help the MRM? It does not when you post clearly crappy articles. CNN had a good story that could have opened up a real discussion on what some of the problems are that are facing men. But when you post something stating that half of women are liars out to get trapt men into raising another guys kid, you are not going to get anything good from that. When you make post making it seem like women are these protect flowers that can do no wrong you are not helping your cause. You are making a mockery of it and it over shadows the really important issues.

Who the fuck is expecting women to handle it?

Women have, by and large, the most options so they usually are de-facto the ones to handle it. A married couple who trusts each other has no reason to think someone is going to sabotage the birth control anyway. So if the husband trusts his wife why would he feel the need to wear a condom?

And if she cheats and gets pregnant? And he continues to trust her that it's his kid? What then?

When you use the words de-facto that means you are expecting women to handle it.
And wearing a condom is not about trust, what if the woman does not like the side effects of birth control and would like it if her husband/partner wore a condom. What is the problem with that? Is it so bad for the husband to be the one responsible for the birth control?