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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    He should probably have a final answer within a few weeks of finding out that there either is or will be a child.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 10:41 PM ----------



    Really? You've never heard of anyone poking holes in condoms? Or other, more disgusting things?
    What would opting out cost him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
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  2. #642
    Warchief Reqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    What would opting out cost him?
    A relationship with his child.

  3. #643
    Both men and women are stupid, most of the worlds population is stupid and just dumb, dumb, dumb.

    Ive seen fat and annoying men, ive seen fat and annoying women

    Ive seen psychopathic men, ive seen psychopathic women

    Ive seen women abused by men, ive seen men abused by women.

    Theres machochists (however the f its spelt) and theres feminists, plus religious people, all as bad as each other, wipe em out.

    Its the small individuals that count that make the 5% of life even worth looking forward to.

    Our species really needs to be wiped out lol

  4. #644
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Again, if the woman is given ample notice that the father has no intentions of caring for that child, she can make an informed decision of whether to keep or abort it.
    ..and? its still a very different decision with different results.
    [/COLOR]While we're on the subject of some women being evil succubi, why can't we get stories like this in the US?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 01:15 AM ----------

    "not afraid of women"

    Fixed that for ya.
    but guys dont willing acceot the risk of her getting pregnant in the first place.. the evil women all trick them.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Reqq View Post
    A relationship with his child.
    So men would essentially get a get out jail free card...that is hardly equal.

    An abortion has a financial,physical and emotional cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapecleave View Post
    Both men and women are stupid, most of the worlds population is stupid and just dumb, dumb, dumb.

    Ive seen fat and annoying men, ive seen fat and annoying women

    Ive seen psychopathic men, ive seen psychopathic women

    Ive seen women abused by men, ive seen men abused by women.

    Theres machochists (however the f its spelt) and theres feminists, plus religious people, all as bad as each other, wipe em out.

    Its the small individuals that count that make the 5% of life even worth looking forward to.

    Our species really needs to be wiped out lol

    Oooor, we can improve our culture and design our future instead of letting it to fate and market, which are horrid ideas.
    Nothing wrong with humans *shrugs*
    Its the variety and nuances that make it interesting

  7. #647
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Darenyon, I think you missed my question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    If she lies, who pays to support the child?

  8. #648
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Darenyon, I think you missed my question:
    the true father should. it gets a bit murky if it isnt found out until much later though, afaik.

  9. #649
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    the true father should. it gets a bit murky if it isnt found out until much later though, afaik.
    Thanks for answering. I wasn't sure what you meant in your other response.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Its not uncommon. A female I know actually did it. She poked holes in the condom.
    You need to rethink your definition of "uncommon" if that was truly intentional. That sentence would have been better stated "It is rare but not impossible".
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  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    What would opting out cost him?
    If it has to cost something that's a different story. That biology doesn't require the procedure to be surgical for men is no one's fault and should not stand in the way of the fact that he should be able to opt out.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 11:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    ..and? its still a very different decision with different results.
    I'm not sure what your hangup is. Is it the fact that men wouldn't require a minor surgical procedure? Or is it the fact that women lose the option to force a man to support a child he doesn't want?

    I don't believe for a moment most men would take this route. Contrary to sitcoms, men are very responsible and take child care very seriously on the whole.


    but guys dont willing acceot the risk of her getting pregnant in the first place.. the evil women all trick them.
    ;
    Stop generalizing. There is only one form of birth control available to men and the vast majority use it despite its interference with sex.

    And you can bet that if there were more available (like a pill, shot or RISUG) we'd use birth control even more.
    Last edited by Laize; 2013-01-18 at 11:54 AM.

  12. #652
    I always try telling them i had a vasectomy, but they dont believe me

  13. #653
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If it has to cost something that's a different story. That biology doesn't require the procedure to be surgical for men is no one's fault and should not stand in the way of the fact that he should be able to opt out.

    I'm not sure what your hangup is. Is it the fact that men wouldn't require a minor surgical procedure? Or is it the fact that women lose the option to force a man to support a child he doesn't want?
    um, no. when a woman "opts out" she doesnt force a man to have a surgical procedure or place a huge financial burden on him that is also detrimental to the child. your use of the word is disingenuous since walking out is "opting out" - you dont want to be a father fine, but thats not the kids fault. abortion makes everything moot. there is no child in need of support.
    I don't believe for a moment most men would take this route. Contrary to sitcoms, men are very responsible and take child care very seriously on the whole.

    ;
    Stop generalizing. There is only one form of birth control available to men and the vast majority use it despite its interference with sex.

    And you can bet that if there were more available (like a pill, shot or RISUG) we'd use birth control even more.
    birth control of any kind has a failure rate. the risk of pregnancy is always present. the fact that women can abort has no bearing on that.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    um, no. when a woman "opts out" she doesnt force a man to have a surgical procedure or place a huge financial burden on him that is also detrimental to the child. your use of the word is disingenuous since walking out is "opting out" and abortion makes everything moot.
    Excuse me, but at no point is a male opt-out forcing anything on the mother. It doesn't even take a choice away from her. She still has the exact same choices she had before... just without the ability to force a man to finance one of them.

    birth control of any kind has a failure rate. the risk of pregnancy is always present. the fact that women can abort has no bearing on that.
    Who the hell is claiming birth control is 100%? You're all over the place. King goalpost mover, if you will.

    I'm simply saying that men, in general, are pretty fucking responsible when it comes to birth control. As responsible as we CAN be given our ONE option.
    Last edited by Laize; 2013-01-18 at 12:50 PM.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    i'll try to explain again.

    when a woman aborts, the man is at liberty. no harm no foul.

    when a man walks out, she must either abort or have a huge burden place on her.

    who lies about what is entirely irrelevant.
    he lied and she had it -> too bad it must be supported
    she lied and had it -> too bad it must be supported.

    child support is about children, not about "favoring a gender" or "taking away liberty" any more than any other parenting laws are.
    which is why i find the claims of sexism absurd.
    i´m sorry but what? this happened to a friend of mine, his girlfriend was pregnant and had an abortion without telling him, he was mentally screwed for a few months and they broke up

    it´s not like the man has anything to say in this, if he want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice, if she want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice... it´s allways the womans choice

    there is no fair in this, and if you can´t force a child on a woman, why is it legal to force a child on a man?? if both agree, both are responsible, if one agrees one is responsible, if one cheats the other into believing it´s their child (very hard for a guy though) then it´s lying and it should be punished, not the child ofcourse, but not the one who has been lied to either
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem;
    And, firearm violence is not always a firearm homicide.

  16. #656
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Excuse me, but at no point is a male opt-out forcing anything on the mother. It doesn't even take a choice away from her. She still has the exact same choices she had before... just without the ability to force a man to finance one of them.
    its not about choice, its about providing for the child. a man "opting out" invalidates the whole purpose of child support- to provide for the kid even when a parent is not willing. and if you dont think that puts a lot of pressure on women to abort you are not being intellectually honest.
    Who the hell is claiming birth control is 100%? You're all over the place. King goalpost mover, if you will.

    I'm simply saying that men, in general, are pretty fucking responsible when it comes to birth control. As responsible as we CAN be given our ONE option.
    and women, in general, are as well. accidents happen however. but focusing on "evil succubi out to trap innocent men" is a great way to attack a system designed to help children and parents in need.
    you keep claiming that children are 100% womens responsibility while ignoring that it takes two to tango. take some responsibility instead of whining about "evil women out to get you".

  17. #657
    What you just said, is articulate, it is intelligent, and it is logical. There's not a thing wrong with what you just said and god bless you for claiming that right.

  18. #658
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    i´m sorry but what? this happened to a friend of mine, his girlfriend was pregnant and had an abortion without telling him, he was mentally screwed for a few months and they broke up

    it´s not like the man has anything to say in this, if he want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice, if she want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice... it´s allways the womans choice

    there is no fair in this, and if you can´t force a child on a woman, why is it legal to force a child on a man?? if both agree, both are responsible, if one agrees one is responsible, if one cheats the other into believing it´s their child (very hard for a guy though) then it´s lying and it should be punished, not the child ofcourse, but not the one who has been lied to either
    its not fair that women must carry children in their bodies? i agree, we should start working on a system to allow men to so that it can be their choice. or violate womens bodily autonomy.

    it doesnt matter who agreed to be responsible, both are. because in the end they both agreed when they had sex in the first place.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    its not about choice, its about providing for the child. a man "opting out" invalidates the whole purpose of child support- to provide for the kid even when a parent is not willing. and if you dont think that puts a lot of pressure on women to abort you are not being intellectually honest.
    It is about choice. That's what this whole conversation is about. The purpose of child support is supposed to be provision for a child, yes. It should only be for children who both parents have agreed to care for (ie. In cases where a child is already born but the parents split up). It should not be for financially supporting a woman's right to choose.

    She still has the same choice of whether to keep the child or abort it. How much pressure that places on the woman should not enter into it because it's intellectually dishonest to assume that there isn't an equivalent pressure on the man when she chooses not to abort.

    and women, in general, are as well. accidents happen however. but focusing on "evil succubi out to trap innocent men" is a great way to attack a system designed to help children and parents in need.
    you keep claiming that children are 100% womens responsibility while ignoring that it takes two to tango. take some responsibility instead of whining about "evil women out to get you".
    Please point out anywhere I said or suggested that women should be 100% responsible for children?

    And if you don't think any women exist that would entrap men by getting pregnant, then please suggest as much.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    i´m sorry but what? this happened to a friend of mine, his girlfriend was pregnant and had an abortion without telling him, he was mentally screwed for a few months and they broke up

    it´s not like the man has anything to say in this, if he want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice, if she want´s to keep the baby it´s the womans choice... it´s allways the womans choice

    there is no fair in this, and if you can´t force a child on a woman, why is it legal to force a child on a man?? if both agree, both are responsible, if one agrees one is responsible, if one cheats the other into believing it´s their child (very hard for a guy though) then it´s lying and it should be punished, not the child ofcourse, but not the one who has been lied to either
    According to her we don't. We just have to send money every month or else!

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