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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    sure, as soon as technology advances to the point where men can carry children.
    No.

    im on an iphone and typing out long posts is extremely difficult.


    There's your problem. Get an android.

    no, hes financially supporting a child. she must also support it. the "right to choose" exists whether or not legislation supports it.
    The legislation does not support a bilateral right to choose. We're saying it should.

    he had plenty of time to make an informed decision on "do i want to risk getting this woman pregnant?". stop trying to make child support about "evil women". "evil men" trick women into having children all the time, thinking they will have his support for it. if they then dump it on him, she still pays child support.
    You're placing the entirety of his situation on him. That's dishonest and ridiculous. As you said, it takes two to tango and HIS fate should not be entirely in HER hands.

  2. #682
    he is french Canadian that is how they speak.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2013-01-18 at 04:51 PM.

  3. #683
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    She chose to keep the child/not take the pill/have sex with the neighbor and he was against it. Why should he be responsible? This is total nonsense.
    "have sex with the neighbor" is irrelevant- then the neighbor should be responsible.
    in the other two, he is also partly responsible, so he has part of the respinsibility.
    a child he never wanted.
    an unwanted child must still be provided for.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Not at all. What I would argue against is that men and women should be paid different amounts of money for the same job performed if that would happen. If it's based on personal performance, no issues at all from my side.
    It should always be based on personal performance.

    If there are 2 accountants and one is better than another, that person should get paid more. End of story.

    If there are 2 road workers and one is faster at getting things done than another, that person should get paid more. Also end of story.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    "have sex with the neighbor" is irrelevant- then the neighbor should be responsible.
    in the other two, he is also partly responsible, so he has part of the respinsibility.

    an unwanted child must still be provided for.
    but if the child is conceived because she chose to stop taking the pill without telling the man, wouldn't her willful act that without his knowledge greatly increased the probability of a child being born shift the balance of responsibility from 50/50 to vastly more to her and much less on him ?

  6. #686
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No.
    well that is the core of the issue.
    There's your problem. Get an android.
    meh.
    The legislation does not support a bilateral right to choose. We're saying it should.
    there is no right to choose to have a child, its a right to dictate what happens to your own body.
    You're placing the entirety of his situation on him. That's dishonest and ridiculous. As you said, it takes two to tango and HIS fate should not be entirely in HER hands.
    they share a responsibility, and so they share a burden. her burden is greater by nature, and so her responsibility is greater. he still has a part however.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    an unwanted child must still be provided for.
    By the person or people who wanted it.

  8. #688
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruddoris View Post
    but if the child is conceived because she chose to stop taking the pill without telling the man, wouldn't her willful act that without his knowledge greatly increased the probability of a child being born shift the balance of responsibility from 50/50 to vastly more to her and much less on him ?
    i dont see how its functionally different than an unfortunate accident. should there be penalties? perhaps. but theres still an unwanted kid to factor in.

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Not at all. What I would argue against is that men and women should be paid different amounts of money for the same job performed if that would happen. If it's based on personal performance, no issues at all from my side.
    They tend to be paid less, because they choose less lucrative educations, take maternity leaves, work less hours, dont focus as much on carrier as men. The "gender pay gap" is completely fabricated to push laws against men.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    well that is the core of the issue.
    And you have a view on it that I view to not just be fundamentally wrong, but wholly unappreciative of the man's position in this.

    there is no right to choose to have a child, its a right to dictate what happens to your own body.
    For the woman they're one in the same. You're not taking anything away from women with this. You're simply bringing men to more equal footing.

    they share a responsibility, and so they share a burden. her burden is geeater by nature, and so her responsibility is greater. he still has a part however.
    Her burden is greater for 10 months. His is greater (if unwilling) for 18-20 years.

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Not at all. What I would argue against is that men and women should be paid different amounts of money for the same job performed if that would happen. If it's based on personal performance, no issues at all from my side.
    Probably not worth starting a discussion about "wage gap" in this thread.

  12. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    But even you have to admit there's a massive difference in saying you'd do something in a hypothetical and actually doing it.

    If we had a study that said X number actually did it, I would care; but this study is just fictitious hypothetical bullshit and should be viewed as such.
    If i did a random google to come up with a number for non paternity or whatever the term might be i might find a blog and the blog might be
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn.../#.UPlVyGeSGBw

    The validity and relevance of such a blog should i find it with a random google is of course debatable, i have no idea. But i might find it if i looked

  13. #693
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Probably not worth starting a discussion about "wage gap" in this thread.
    I have no interest in doing so.

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    an unwanted child must still be provided for.
    yep you don't want the child but still have to pay for 18 year because the bitch decided to get a child wen you clearly said you did not want to have one go figure were this world is going.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    i dont see how its functionally different than an unfortunate accident. should there be penalties? perhaps. but theres still an unwanted kid to factor in.
    you don't see how an unfortunate accident differs from one of the 2 parties taking it into their own hands to intentionally conceive or at the very least greatly increase the chances of accidental conception and then intentionally withhold this information from the other party? Effectively removing his option to alter his behavior ( use condoms, stop having sex with her ) based on the new variables in the situation ?

    would your opinion be the same if a man replaced a woman's morning after pill with a placebo if he wanted a child?

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruddoris View Post
    would your opinion be the same if a man replaced with a woman's morning after pill with a placebo if he wanted a child?
    The thing is that this would have to be in a country where abortion was banned. Because the woman could just abort the kid, or put it up for adoption, and not have to deal with 20 years of financial slavery.

    Yes, abortion isn't pleasant, but it's nowhere near as bad as paying 20 years for the kid. Which you probably won't even get to raise.

  17. #697
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    And you have a view on it that I view to not just be fundamentally wrong, but wholly unappreciative of the man's position in this.
    quite a few men have this view, and men were the ones who enacted legislation on it.

    For the woman they're one in the same. You're not taking anything away from women with this. You're simply bringing men to more equal footing.
    you cant claim inequality for a nonexistent right.
    Her burden is greater for 10 months. His is greater (if unwilling) for 18-20 years.
    hardly. raising a child is a huge burden not only financially but physically, emotionally, and a good chunk of time that could be spent in other areas. he pays a fee in return for doubling every other burden.

  18. #698
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruddoris View Post
    would your opinion be the same if a man replaced a woman's morning after pill with a placebo if he wanted a child?
    Abortion, morning after pills aren't the only way.

  19. #699
    would your opinion be the same if a man replaced a woman's morning after pill with a placebo if he wanted a child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    The thing is that this would have to be in a country where abortion was banned. Because the woman could just abort the kid, or put it up for adoption, and not have to deal with 20 years of financial slavery.

    Yes, abortion isn't pleasant, but it's nowhere near as bad as paying 20 years for the kid. Which you probably won't even get to raise.
    the point I was making is both situations are one of the two parties taking it on themselves to make a choice for the other party and acting on it while hiding the choice.

  20. #700
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruddoris View Post
    you don't see how an unfortunate accident differs from one of the 2 parties taking it into their own hands to intentionally conceive or at the very least greatly increase the chances of accidental conception and then intentionally withhold this information from the other party? Effectively removing his option to alter his behavior ( use condoms, stop having sex with her ) based on the new variables in the situation ?

    would your opinion be the same if a man replaced a woman's morning after pill with a placebo if he wanted a child?
    then she is still responsible for the child. its not the kids fault someone lied. should the person who did it be punished? absolutely.

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