Obama Exercises Executive Actions

[Deleted]

Good. A step in the right direction.

Now to overcome the gun lobby...

[Grizzly Willy]

read for yourself, Now, should I believe you, or the Australian Government?

The biggest issue I have with your reasoning is the "disarmed their victims" statement, which isn't true. The people were disarmed to begin with. Additionally, the article points out that while there was a jump in percentage, that jump was still statistically insignificant. It went from 7 per 4.5 million to 19 per 4.5 million. That is not a statistically significant increase.

[Endus]

would be interesting. but those UK folks will say you cant use their numbers for violent crime since supposely they figure their numbers differently

There's no "supposedly". The US "violent crime" numbers only include murder, non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, and aggravated assault. "Aggravated assault" means either use of a weapon, or serious injury.

The UK "violent crime" numbers include everything down to shouted threats. Half their "violent crime" numbers involve no injury at all, and then you get into how many are "violent crimes" of the "I got into a brawl at the pub" or "I punched the guy who my girlfriend was cheating on me with" variety, which wouldn't qualify as "aggravated assault".

If you want sources, I went over it in greater detail in another thread, here. Complete with the actual government sources in question linked.

So it's not "those UK folks" saying you can't use it, it's "any honest person who's actually taken 5 minutes to read the reports to see what they ACTUALLY say". You either need to just be cherry-picking numbers without reading what they mean, or you read that and you're deliberately ignoring it because you want to push an agenda and don't care how dishonestly you do so.

[Felya]

The biggest issue I have with your reasoning is the "disarmed their victims" statement, which isn't true. The people were disarmed to begin with. Additionally, the article points out that while there was a jump in percentage, that jump was still statistically insignificant. It went from 7 per 4.5 million to 19 per 4.5 million. That is not a statistically significant increase.

It's wierd to compare us to Australia as an example of gun control not working. I think it works against that argument, because Australia never had a right to own guns. Australia had strict regulations even before the buy back. The buy back program effected very few people, while their strong gun control resulted in 7 gun related homicides in 4.5 million people. Are people who comparing it to Australian buy back program, want to have the same regulations in US as they did in Australia? Because they were much more strict than what we have.

[Grizzly Willy]

It's wierd to compare us to Australia as an example of gun control not working. I think it works against that argument, because Australia never had a right to own guns. Australia had strict regulations even before the buy back. The buy back program effected very few people, while their strong gun control resulted in 7 gun related homicides in 4.5 million people. Are people who comparing it to Australian buy back program, want to have the same regulations in US as they did in Australia? Because they were much more strict than what we have.

Right. That's why the "criminals loved having their victims disarmed" argument is flat out wrong.

[Felya]

Now to overcome the gun lobby...

I'm still waiting for NRA to tell us how much they aim to profit from arming the increased security. It looks like we see how much it costs to the tax payer, but I'd like to know how much they aim to make.d

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 04:58 PM ----------

Right. That's why the "criminals loved having their victims disarmed" argument is flat out wrong.

It failed without any numbers, but simple logic. It's a double edged sword. A simple robbery can arm a criminal, if the armed home owner is not home. For all the fear it strikes into criminals during rare home invasions, it can arm criminals who are otherwise committing a much more common burglary.

[Glorious Leader]

The practice of manipulation by fear in the united states has reached an ever higher plateau. The government is coming for your heath care, your guns, your taxes and your soul. Their coming to make you gay and an atheist. Sadly combating the fear borne of sheer ignorance is the highest price we pay as a species.

[Grizzly Willy]

i really hope you are trolling.

I'm getting the impression that he's not seriously implying those things. It's the use of fear as a method of making people believe that the government is out to get you. Could also be described as sensationalism, as seen in our wonderful media.

[slimj091]

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson
Please respond to that.

it does not change the fact that by rising up against a tyrannical united states government would be an act of treason no matter how hard you try and spin it. there is not a court in the country that would find you not guilty of treason for taking up arms against the government.