Thread: New Smokebomb

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    well certain boss mechanics just dont allow staking in certain situations like spirit kings if you stack for more then 3 seconds you risk to wipe because of certain mechanics



    or flat out 90% dmg reduce to compensate its ineffectivnes
    Agreed, I won't lie but smoke bomb has its other uses as well. Garajal mitigating 100% of the damage from the adds especially during the burn phase at the end.

  2. #22
    Wow so many ppl are ungrateful this is why we don't get anything is because theres always complaining.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    Agreed, I won't lie but smoke bomb has its other uses as well. Garajal mitigating 100% of the damage from the adds especially during the burn phase at the end.
    well we will see how usefull smoke is going to be in t15 raid content

    Quote Originally Posted by fallschick View Post
    Wow so many ppl are ungrateful this is why we don't get anything is because theres always complaining.
    so you basicly would accapt anything what blizzard is serving you ? it doesnt have anything to do with ungreatfulness that rogues dont get any love the whole rogue comunity discussed back and forth on beta. what happend were alot of nerfs and nothing new to fix our boring gameplay style! another DMG reducing CD wont fix our issues we have.
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-01-17 at 03:41 AM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    362
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The paladin one, Devotion Aura, comes from a healing spec and only effects spell damage. We're a pure dps class getting something that literally stops 20% incoming damage (on top of blocking outside spell attacks). I think it's pretty decent and the 8 yard stipulation, whilst somewhat small, is fair.
    Actually, devotion aura is class wide.

  5. #25
    I feel like people here are not considering PvP at all. They can't just buff Smokebomb to the extreme without breaking rogues in PvP. It's got its strong and weak points, yes, but it's finally a raid utility beyond Tricks of the Trade. 20% Mitigation for 7 seconds is not a bad thing. The distance will call for strategy and thought when using the ability. In my opinion, I think the fact that it is a small radius is a good move by blizzard, as it does not just give us a mindless raid-wide utility button to press, but something that requires some positioning and consideration.

    I will admit, I don't PvE very much, but I can't see how people are complaining. Stop comparing classes, it's so pointless. It's like comparing apples and elephants. And before you go telling me that rogues don't get invited to raid because we have no utility, just stop. Rogues do a high margin of damage while bringing an interrupt, self-heal (At the cost of dps), great mobility (poor ramp-up though), reduced AoE damage taken, and great peels for add fights. Rogues aren't useless in any means, and with the buffs coming, rogues will be just fine.

  6. #26
    Well, they can't just buff smokebomb to the extreme- but they COULD make it:

    -cause line of sight inside the smoke as on live
    -reduce damage dealt to allies inside the smoke by 20%
    .....and.... -reduce damage dealt to allies within 40 yards of the smoke by 10% or 20%.

    The 20% less damage taken for 5/7 seconds isn't going to break the pvp we aren't even in yet. I agree they can't buff it wildly, but having it affect the raid instead of only stacked members wouldn't be bad.


    That being said? Honestly, I don't care. This is a great buff.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 05:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigoraha View Post
    I will admit, I don't PvE very much, but I can't see how people are complaining.
    Ok, I'll tell you how. Rogues have very low utility, so fitting one is is like buying a sports car- YOU might find it fun, but it isn't practical, and the rest of your friends and family don't benefit as much as if you had bought an SUV, a truck, a super efficient something, or a station wagon. Each of those brings something else. But the sports car is faster! Well, for the first two years, then it's "bring the driver, not the car" and suddenly all those vehicles have the same 0-60 as you, and now you're just running it because it's pretty.

    It's like comparing apples and elephants.
    No it isn't. Rogues, warriors, and DKs have a LOT in common from a raid lead perspective- they all have to be near the boss, for instance. But one can death grip, two can tank, one can charge, one can mitigate damage, one can buff health, reduce damage taken, and increase damage done, and one can bring them back from the dead. The rogue only brings dps. The others bring dps almost as good, and a whole kit of stuff.

    And before you go telling me that rogues don't get invited to raid because we have no utility, just stop.
    You just fucking said you don't pve, and I run raids, so YOU STOP.

    I really love my rogue, and I try super hard to be the best damage I can, but it's goddamned silly when the tools I bring are:
    > dps
    > tricks
    No one else has a list that short. It's hard not to think that my friends are running most of the mechanics.

    Rogues do a high margin of damage
    Blizzard has done a decent job of tuning rogues pretty high this tier. In fact, with the exception of hunters, who seem to enjoy mobile dps and the unlimited target aoe mutilate used to bring (but which is REALLY brought by tanks), pures are tuned pretty damned well this tier. The tier has enough fights that prevent affliction and arcane from just using their tunnel powers, so melee mobility can shine (and rogues are the only pure melee). Hunters are too low, but I think the mobility is meant to make up for it or something.

    But dps isn't the only damned thing. Rogues don't bring, say, burst dps, as several other specs do. Rogues don't bring any kind of off healing, damage mitigation, battle res, mana fixitive, positional control, offtanking, or ranged damage. Rogues bring a flurry, which is being nerfed all to hell, and good sustained single target. We bring moderate burst with sub, and strong aoe with mutilate.

    Don't kid yourself though- outside this narrow niche, we got nothing.


    while bringing an interrupt
    We bring the WORSTEST interrupt. It costs energy like the monk one, but energy matters to us a super lot. But who else brings interrupts? It's 2013 kid, EVERY MELEE brings it, and all tank specs. For paladins, warriors, and DKs, the interrupt is free. Among the healers, monks and paladins bring an interrupt. Mages have one, as do hunters and locks. I think priests and caster/healer druids are the only classes/specs without a low-ish cooldown interrupt.

    self-heal (At the cost of dps), great mobility (poor ramp-up though),
    Our mobility is about middling for a melee. It's not bad. Our self heal is TERRIBLE. It's AWFUL. Both leeching poison and recuperate are poor at healing Run recup 100% on a full aoe fight, and then check the healing meters. It doesn't matter, it's like a rounding error.

    reduced AoE damage taken,
    This? This is cool, it's a rogue trick. But it's about our ONLY trick.

    and great peels for add fights. Rogues aren't useless in any means, and with the buffs coming, rogues will be just fine.
    We aren't getting any buffs in pve except for this smokebomb trick and a bit of extra damage when adds die staggered and we can use marked for death. The blade flurry change is mostly a nerf (it DOES create a cool niche for us, but it's a rather rare one in practice). Will we be fine? Well, maybe. Honestly though, just check out the paladin, druid, and shaman tricks.

    Rogues could really use some raid utility. Smokebomb is a great start.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-01-17 at 05:47 AM.

  7. #27
    if blizz did put any effort into it they would made the ppl outside the smoke bomb take 20% less dmg too, since in pvp ppl outside the smokebomb isnt the one taking dmg anyway, so the los is 8 yards(old duration), dmg mig is 40 yards, 10 sec 3 min cd,atleast then it would be at par with the others since it would last longer to having a weak secondary effect.

  8. #28
    Should be great for PVE at least!

  9. #29
    since in pvp ppl outside the smokebomb isnt the one taking dmg anyway
    Actually, they can be. But the important thing to note is- this change is minor in pvp. It's a pve change to provide raid utility. Smoke bomb is already am amazing and desired pvp tool. In pve, the only use it has had this tier is pretty much "wipe the raid if you forget to put it on cooldown for imperial vizier".

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamez View Post
    "pure melee dps" ? half of your damage is nature damage.

    if any class is "pure melee dps" it's warriors lol
    What the what now? Pure melee dps=no other spec beyond melee dps. Maelstrom51 said nothing of the sort that it's pure physical damage.
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

    Battletag - Whitey#2918 - feel free to add me, I'm a social animal


  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    20% solid damage reduction for the entire raid is very strong for a dps class, it needs to have a fair drawback of being on usable when everyone is stacked up - this happens more often than you care to think, most phases of strong raid damage occur in such a way to encourage AoE healing which requires close formations.
    I have my doubts whether 20% will cut it in raiding environments, especially with the small radius of 8yd, but it sure is something in the right direction of raid utlity and is something that should be encouraged.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    20% solid damage reduction for the entire raid is very strong for a dps class.
    This.

    People commenting here that a 20% damage reducing ability is weak are wrong.

    This is not usable on every fight, but it is very powerful on fights where all or much of the raid is stacking (I am thinking Yorsahj, Spine, Madness, Feng, Garajal, Elegon, Zorlok, Blade Lord, Garalon, Shekzeer, Lei Shi).

    When glyphed, Smoke Bomb it lasts 7 seconds. It has an 8 yard radius and 3 minute cooldown, but this can still be very good and can save wipes. It is instant and free, and (I think) even off the GCD.

    It can of course simply be used as a personal, when the raid is spread out, or just to help the melee.

    Also, when combined with Elusiveness (-30% direct damage) this will allows Rogues to peridically soak relatively large direct hits of any type of damage. If the damage is aoe, Rogues can mitigate up to 85% of it (assuming Smoke Bomb is additive).

    Be grateful. This gives Rogues some much sought after defensive raid utility.

  13. #33
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In a field, somewhere
    Posts
    7,347
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Devo Aura is baseline. Aura Mastery was hPally only, which was the same thing when used with Res Aura.
    Mists changes, I never did keep up with them for my alts
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by patcherke View Post
    I have my doubts whether 20% will cut it in raiding environments
    Will cut what?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigoraha View Post
    I feel like people here are not considering PvP at all. They can't just buff Smokebomb to the extreme without breaking rogues in PvP. It's got its strong and weak points, yes, but it's finally a raid utility beyond Tricks of the Trade. 20% Mitigation for 7 seconds is not a bad thing. The distance will call for strategy and thought when using the ability. In my opinion, I think the fact that it is a small radius is a good move by blizzard, as it does not just give us a mindless raid-wide utility button to press, but something that requires some positioning and consideration.

    I will admit, I don't PvE very much, but I can't see how people are complaining. Stop comparing classes, it's so pointless. It's like comparing apples and elephants. And before you go telling me that rogues don't get invited to raid because we have no utility, just stop. Rogues do a high margin of damage while bringing an interrupt, self-heal (At the cost of dps), great mobility (poor ramp-up though), reduced AoE damage taken, and great peels for add fights. Rogues aren't useless in any means, and with the buffs coming, rogues will be just fine.
    A glyph which no longers prevent LoS, but which increases duration or shorten the CD or increases the radius (or a combination of them) sure would be great for raiding, but less so for PvP I suppose? I guess the LoS is what matters the most in PvP (correct me if wrong)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 12:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Will cut what?
    will cut it as ability with long cooldown (3 min) when you compare it with other raid damage reduction cooldowns (for example that shamans totem)
    and whether 20% is enough to soak such high damage phases on its own like the Force And Verve on Zor'lok.
    Atm I fear that this ability (while okay) will never be able to be used on its own without othe peoples cooldowns.
    But we'll see how it turns out of course. I might as well be just talking nonsense since we don't know the new raiding content.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    This.

    People commenting here that a 20% damage reducing ability is weak are wrong.

    This is not usable on every fight, but it is very powerful on fights where all or much of the raid is stacking (I am thinking Yorsahj, Spine, Madness, Feng, Garajal, Elegon, Zorlok, Blade Lord, Garalon, Shekzeer, Lei Shi).

    When glyphed, Smoke Bomb it lasts 7 seconds. It has an 8 yard radius and 3 minute cooldown, but this can still be very good and can save wipes. It is instant and free, and (I think) even off the GCD.

    It can of course simply be used as a personal, when the raid is spread out, or just to help the melee.

    Also, when combined with Elusiveness (-30% direct damage) this will allows Rogues to peridically soak relatively large direct hits of any type of damage. If the damage is aoe, Rogues can mitigate up to 85% of it (assuming Smoke Bomb is additive).

    Be grateful. This gives Rogues some much sought after defensive raid utility.
    I, for one, love what they're trying to give us.
    20% damage reduction as an on-demand raid-cooldown!? Yes, please!

    What I dislike, however, is that it's tied to Smoke Bomb... Which reduces an otherwise fantastic cooldown to be a niche cooldown instead - only useful for certain scenarios.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    I, for one, love what they're trying to give us.
    20% damage reduction as an on-demand raid-cooldown!? Yes, please!

    What I dislike, however, is that it's tied to Smoke Bomb... Which reduces an otherwise fantastic cooldown to be a niche cooldown instead - only useful for certain scenarios.
    thats what im trying to say its okay to give us at least something but tied to smoke its just dumb in my eyes they need to redesign it to make it actually usefull (via glyph)
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  18. #38
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In a field, somewhere
    Posts
    7,347
    Smoke bomb has a lot of potential to actually be useful in pve (outside of probably unintended block damage ways). For example, it could easily be on it's own tier:

    A pvp option which would simply be it's current form
    A pve option - many times have we seen ideas for a poison bomb variation adding some nice flavour to the class if it even changed colour slightly
    Or both - I suggested a while back that smoke bomb could benefit from your currently used non-lethal posion, leeching would create a healing bomb, crippling would lay a variation of frost trap, mind numbing would create a variation of solar beam and paralytic would create a variation of ring of frost.

    The third option could easily stand alone, it would turn smoke bomb into a powerful cd, give rouges a lot of niche utility and offer us something fun to play with - something I feel we're missing.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-01-17 at 12:50 PM.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,980
    It makes more sense for smoke bomb to cause a sky high miss rate, but as it stands, the proposed is a nice addition.

    What we really need is something like the use any ability/item skill from D&D. Very sneaky, very in tune and would make us more fun. Think symbiosis without giving anything back. Much more roguelike.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by patcherke View Post
    will cut it as ability with long cooldown (3 min) when you compare it with other raid damage reduction cooldowns (for example that shamans totem)
    and whether 20% is enough to soak such high damage phases on its own like the Force And Verve on Zor'lok.
    Atm I fear that this ability (while okay) will never be able to be used on its own without othe peoples cooldowns.
    But we'll see how it turns out of course. I might as well be just talking nonsense since we don't know the new raiding content

    The shaman totem is only 10% damage reduction. It lasts longer and covers a bigger area than smoke bomb, but the mitigation is half as much. The health pool adjustment is gimmicky and really not useful when the whole raid is taking the same amount of damage. Spirit link totem is actually the weakest of all the healer raid cds, imo.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •