Thread: New Smokebomb

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  1. #41
    I'm pretty stoked about Smoke Bomb's change. Now it has a PvE use, too. It'll come in handy when soloing old bosses, or in Brawler's guild.

  2. #42
    Blademaster Naquadah's Avatar
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    Perhaps changing the glyph to work like paladins glyph of consecration would be nice. Duration increase should stay or be increased slighty and the los block should be removed. This would allow it to be balanced for both pve and pvp.

  3. #43
    Couldn't they just have it so "For as long as the Rogue remains inside his/her own Smoke Bomb, all Party and Raid members within 100 yards receive 20% less physical damage"?

    No need to stack, Rogues get a nice cooldown and you're covering the ranged while still staying in melle!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Couldn't they just have it so "For as long as the Rogue remains inside his/her own Smoke Bomb, all Party and Raid members within 100 yards receive 20% less physical damage"?

    No need to stack, Rogues get a nice cooldown and you're covering the ranged while still staying in melle!
    I don't really understand the problem here. It's no different to an anti magic shell. You see bubble you stack in it and profit.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    I don't really understand the problem here. It's no different to an anti magic shell. You see bubble you stack in it and profit.
    BECAUSE on certain fights standing still for 7 seconds would mean a wipe how hard is it to understand? its position requirement makes it unattraktive as a raid CD
    a good example would be spirit kings only time where you stack is first and last boss witch is 1/2 of the fight and even then you dont have the time to stand still for 7 seconds because of all the special abiltys from the boss
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    BECAUSE on certain fights standing still for 7 seconds would mean a wipe how hard is it to understand? its position requirement makes it unattraktive as a raid CD
    Oh yeah, exactly same thing makes Power Word: Barrier VERY shitty raid cd (7 yds radius btw).
    Oh, wait...
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    In pve, the only use it has had this tier is pretty much "wipe the raid if you forget to put it on cooldown for imperial vizier".
    Haven't seen normal mode for really long time, and haven't dumped smoke bomb on heroic like ever. Convert doesn't use blind and gouge aswell, so dumping dismantle and kick is enough.

    P.S. This smoke bomb change would be awesome for: Vizier HC p2 voice and verve, HC Blade Lord's Unseen Strike (with 3-4 intensity stacks) and during p2 burn, for HC Wind Lord's rain of blade during recklessness, p3 burn on Amber-Shaper HC, Empress HC - p1 for for melee during explosions and last phase for entire raid, HC protectors - last burn seconds when you letting adds in and entire raid already has 9 stacks, HC Tsulong - for melee only during night, HC Lei Shi - during get away for entire raid (we stacked pretty tight apart from 2 people) etc etc.
    Last edited by Mazius; 2013-01-18 at 03:51 AM.

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    You people realize that you can cast to targets in bomb, right? Like if you were running mage rogue, mage could cast a frostbomb into the smoke bomb on the enemy team... Or if you were running rogue/melee/healer, if healer was pillar humping and rogue offensive bombed, healer can still heal into the bomb, the enemy team can't though. Just trying to make sure because I see all this removal of LoS things, and putting it on a glyph.

    It just doesn't make sense to me how people can somehow think a 20% damage reduction cd is bad from a pure dps class. It's comparable to every other raid cd with it's own perks and draw backs. I do agree with the person making it a glyph to make it place-able like consecrate, however that'd just continue to make rogues even more broken in 5.2, so that probably won't happen.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    It just doesn't make sense to me how people can somehow think a 20% damage reduction cd is bad from a pure dps class.
    Really what it comes down to is that, while its better than what we have currently (nothing), we would like something more appropriate for the class. Considering that rogues currently have zero raid utility, and are limited as melee dps for every spec, I personally don't see the problem with giving rogues something stronger or more unique.

  9. #49
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    I am very happy to see this change. It gives us the raid utility we needed and lets us actually use smoke bomb in a PvE setting for a change(Yes there were a few situations where it was useful before but not to this scale).
    Wouldn't mind seeing some sort of change like this to shroud. Maybe make it were if you use it outside of stealth, in an instance( to prevent PvP abuse) it gives a 50% reduction to magic damage for the duration. It would need to be pretty substantial to make up for the lengthy CD.

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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I personally don't see the problem with giving rogues something stronger or more unique.
    I.e. something totally cool and completely amazing, but you couln't come up with example?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Really what it comes down to is that, while its better than what we have currently (nothing), we would like something more appropriate for the class. Considering that rogues currently have zero raid utility, and are limited as melee dps for every spec, I personally don't see the problem with giving rogues something stronger or more unique.
    Rogues just got the single best non-healer raid cd. What the fuck else do you want.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Rogues just got the single best non-healer raid cd. What the fuck else do you want.
    We don't have ranged nuclear attack and mount that farts fire. Yet!?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Rogues just got the single best non-healer raid cd. What the fuck else do you want.
    Did we? I think thats quite arguable. Warriors combo is still better, they aren't a healer. Devo (also on rets) is arguably better, it is limited to non physical but has a much more manageable radius. VE and tranq (non resto druid tranq) also have bonuses over smoke bomb. Healthstones are arguably better as well, and depending on the mechanic not even arguable (if you are using a raid cd for a single large attack that isn't a 1 shot, healthstones are better for sure).

    What we really got was simply a defensive cooldown for the raid in the same ballpark as what loads of other classes were offering.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    its raid utility witch is not needed with its limits i have at least 4 classes who have those kind of CD's in our raid and we never were in a situation were we had to say "damn we miss one CD with DMG reduction boss is too hard without it " i'd like to see something more usefull something unique like the skullbanner witch is warriors only make it a DPS CD where you WANT/NEED a rogue in your raid. Its about time rogues get their uniqness back with this we are just another DMG reducing class with a limited use of this ability
    What you're saying here basically boils down to "I want something OP instead!". Giving vital unique buffs/etc to specific classes is exactly the opposite of what Blizzard aims to do with "bring the player, not the class".

    Frankly Skull Banner is of dubious enough merit.
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  15. #55
    and here I thought it sucked to not have a raid cd as a DK TANK. You guys have more problems with your mentality than you do with spells

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpocrates View Post
    and here I thought it sucked to not have a raid cd as a DK TANK.
    Drop purgatory and get AMZ then.

    P.S. For those who still thinks that new smokebomb sucks - AMZ has 6,5 yds radius and also static. Shorter cd tho.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Drop purgatory and get AMZ then.

    P.S. For those who still thinks that new smokebomb sucks - AMZ has 6,5 yds radius and also static. Shorter cd tho.
    It also only works against very niche mechanics. I.e. incredibly high AOE burst damage, akin to the Elementium Bolt in Madness. Fights with that kind of AoE burst usually don't spread the raid out. Shame if a fights does, however, because that would reduce the value of said cooldown as well.

    Nonetheless, they're DK's. We're rogues. They win any utility comparison by default due to having a tank-spec.

  18. #58
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Haven't seen normal mode for really long time, and haven't dumped smoke bomb on heroic like ever. Convert doesn't use blind and gouge aswell, so dumping dismantle and kick is enough.
    It does use blind and smokebomb, both to scarily good effect; it can very easily wipe your raid if they're not on CD.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    It does use blind and smokebomb, both to scarily good effect; it can very easily wipe your raid if they're not on CD.
    We killed Vizier HC ~40 days ago, missed 1 kill of him since. Never dumped bomb there and never used it during convert. May be it's different for 10 man.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Rogues just got the single best non-healer raid cd. What the fuck else do you want.
    Devo Aura, Banner, Tranquility, Healing Tide Totem, Vampiric Embrace, and probably many others are as good or better than smoke bomb's 20% damage reduction in an 7 yard range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    I.e. something totally cool and completely amazing, but you couln't come up with example?
    How about something like this -
    Assault Weakness - for 15 seconds, all attacks against the target gain 8% crit chance. 5 minute cooldown.

    Basically a debuff on a target that benefits the entire party, while still fitting the rogue theme.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 09:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpocrates View Post
    and here I thought it sucked to not have a raid cd as a DK TANK. You guys have more problems with your mentality than you do with spells
    DK tanks are getting raid utility in 5.2 via 9x higher bloodworm healing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 09:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    What you're saying here basically boils down to "I want something OP instead!". Giving vital unique buffs/etc to specific classes is exactly the opposite of what Blizzard aims to do with "bring the player, not the class".
    Well, there currently isn't much reason to bring rogues, as a class. We only have melee dps specs, and room for melee in a raid is limited. Rogues also share gear with 2 dps specs and 2 tank specs, reducing their chance at a spot even more. Finally, they lack any sort of utility.

    That last part is being worked on in 5.2, but will the smoke bomb buff be enough? I kind of doubt it. We may need something unique.

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