reducing DA and/or giving spirit shell a longer cd just encourages stacking more priests to retain the same level of control over encounters.
Back when they first added DA to PoH to make it viable the problem of using it to stack absorbs was discussed. One possible solution mentioned was to simply make PoH convert all previous DA on the targets healed into instant direct healing and just leaving the new DA caused by that PoH behind.
This would have solved the throughput problem (PoH healing way less for Disc than for Holy with no alternatives like Holy has) and prevented excessive DA stacking. It would even improve Disc's ability to heal groups back up after heavy raiddamage not on a fixed timer, something it would currently struggle with if such encounters came back.
I think something like this would work better than just removing DA form PoH completely, which might make it too weak due to targeting limitations and lack of complimentary aoe smartheals. It's easier to balance as well. (Since there would be two more numbers to tweak whereas the version currently tested has none on the side of disc priests.)
Last edited by Noradin; 2013-01-20 at 10:19 PM.
Also how good is your resto, what assignments you got and how do you know that a disc priest is doing ok. Did you priest try holy at all?
All in all we know exactly where disc priests will be after 5.2, because we know how we did at the start of MoP. Single target heals were buffed a bit, spirit shell nerfed a lot, PoH nerfed (slightly lower HPS and no absorbs), mana costs lowered. If we were not viable at the start of MoP how is it possible that these buffs will make us viable.
The answer is it won't. We were able to stack absorbs in the start of MoP and spirit shell healed for much more back then. Did anyone think disc was OP then? The answer is absorbs on their own are just not the problem. The problem is blizzard overbuffing PoH and spirit shell to ridiculous extents so a PoH puts the same amount of absorb as a PWS does.
Blizzard current iteration of changes will just lead to more crappy hotfixes....
Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-01-20 at 10:23 PM.
Discs will be more than fine, Discs scale really well and it's just a joke that PoH is used more to blanket DA than to actually heal.
Last edited by Manamontana; 2013-01-20 at 10:35 PM.
I wonder if Blizzard has even considered how the PWS change will affect the PWS glyph. If they are reducing the ability to shield via PoH and instead want us to shield via PWS more, then why would we want to glyph PWS and lose even more absorb, by 20%?
I asked about what actually happens in a raid, numbers taken from a log, with AA/grace/PI and whatever you want in the equation, not numbers from wowhead. Key word is practical output, not theoretical. In a practical raid, the possibility of poh hitting 5 ppl is extremely rare due to range issues. I did assume no overhealing, even if even that is a bit of a stretch, a spell like PoH actually has a large chance on overhealing, especially if it manages to crit on a person that doesn't need any particularly high healing, due to the fact that all other healers have smart spells, therefor there will never be a situation in which all your party members lack the same amount of health. Right now, I am having a hard time imagining which boss would allow poh to hit 5 ppl most of the time, as most of them have some sort of spread mechanic.You claimed non Aegis PoH can do 100k hps, have you ever checked how much actual healing from poh alone does your disc priest do? Go check that, add the overhealing to it, and you'll get the actual practical output POH will have. I'll eat my hat if its 100k.
I think caps on absorbs in some sort of form would be good to not allow extreme uses. I also think a guaranteed DA on poh should be a much lower amount than crits on single target spells. Normally, considering its 50% with a 20-30% chance (depending on gear), I'd say DA should also be @10-15% on poh (though that would make it look a bit like pala mastery).im holding massive reservations about DA being withdrawn from PoH. after literally jsut doing garalon hc (other healer a holy pally) if DA wasnt there, as a disc priest i would feel incredibly vulnerable not being able to "reliably" mitigate the incoming damage
why not jsut decrease the imposed HP cap from DA and SS? down from 40% an 60%, to maybe 20% and 30% respectively.
Another solution would be a new mechanic for DA stacking (something like what Noradin said), or a completely new aoe spell that we could use when poh isnt the best answer.
Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-01-21 at 08:33 AM.
If your PoHs aren't hitting all 5 party members, tell your raid leader to give you assistance so you can organise groups. Our Priests are able to hit 5 targets all the time: even on Sha of Fear HC.
Then, if only 3 ppl in a party need healing, its still better to use poh than anything else atm, since casting 3 single target spells is slower and more expensive. You could say I could atonement heal, but even that takes 4-5 seconds for 3 ppl, and 3 ppl are the 8th part of the raid compared to 10 man where they are a third. If I have to heal 9 ppl that took dmg in 3 different parties, casting 3xpoh and spending 7 seconds on it is still better than casting smite/holy fire/penance for 13 seconds with a chance to land heals on pets (which are also more in 25 man).
Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-01-21 at 10:21 AM.
Although I don't pay much attention it works like this:
group 1 = tanks + Mistweavers (melee range)
group 2 = pure melee (melee range)
group 3 = healers (stand in middle / melee on fights where they can like Tsulong etc)
group 4 = ranged dps, stand left
group 5 = ranged dps, stand right
Last edited by Manamontana; 2013-01-21 at 10:11 AM.
Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-01-21 at 10:27 AM.
In fact, someone calculated in the US forums that using PoH (on live) to heal 1 person is the best HPM/HPS you can do, provided the DA on all members will be used (which isn't far fetched, to be honest).
If you are healing in a 25 man setting, and 3 people really need heals, you and the other 3-7 healers can spot heal them easily. If they really are in risk of dying, a disc has the added bonus of being able to PW:S all 3 (assuming only one Disc I guess, that is another mechanical problem that will float come 5.2) and get this throughput going, while letting the other healers heal said targets. Or you can just even go on with atonement, the best sustained snipe healing in game (which will still be the case come 5.2).
If you are healing in a 10 man setting, 3 people is a considerably larger portion of the raid, and if 3 people need healing right now that usually means it's time to start thinking about CDs or at least burn through mana to keep them alive.
At any case, most healers will not start using spammable AoE heals when 3 people took damage.
Also, I strongly disagree that we should care only about the healing (as opposed to shields) that comes from PoH usage. You never ignored it so far, why start now, because it's unpredictable? Might as well ignore crits, Monk's mastery, Paladin's Divine Purpose Procs, Resto Shaman Resurgence or Earthliving Weapon, etc.
If you want me to recalculate these numbers based on a 30% overheal estimate (a number I randomly generated, I'm a real RNG!) that would make more sense, in which case I'll just use real numbers from my Disc co-healer's PoH spell. His Ilevel is 498 I think, might be 497.
Average hit is around 47.5K taken from WoL (I took total healing, divided it by the non overhealing component, and then by total number of entries) so it averages crits, Inner Focus and Archangel. It doesn't count DA, and haste.
Let's assume 10% haste raid buffed, 3% from Borrowed Time (this will be much higher come 5.2), and 2% additional benefit from Power Infusion also 40% mastery (no Heroism/Bloodlust, those are often used for DPS gain, not healers, so no guarantee you'll get them when you want, as opposed to PI).
This averages out to just below 110K. So we have 77K HPS if we use the 30% overheal.
He crits around 23% of his PoHs so 0.374*110K*0.7=29K or so. *** explanation below if you care.
Let's say 30% of DA overheals as well, so effectively we have 20K. (Absurdly high DA overheal IMO, but RNG is RNG!)
Totaling 97K effective HPS. (from a raw 138.5K HPS)
Fight is Spirit Kings HC if it matters.
*** This part might require some explanation.
Since I used his average hit of PoH per target earlier on (including crits), I couldn't just take 23% of that as the crit value, crit is already part of that number. What I did instead is find the ratio of 23% crit from the overall heal.
So from 100 PoH entries you get 77 normal hits valuing 1 (normalized of course) each, and 23 crits valuing 2 (normalized) each, therefore the crit component of the overall is 46/123=0.374, nevermind the meta for this calculation, it's not 100% accurate anyway, no need to over complicate stuff.
The formula is (crit portion)*(total healing per second)*(Divine Aegis component)=raw DA.
This might be skewed one way or another because of Inner Focus, the crit % does seem somewhat high, but looking at other fights (Protectors normal elite, Feng HC, Empress normal) it's somewhat consistent.
Have a nice day,