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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    So doing double the amount of healing over all your other healers in a raid, through 70% absorb abilities is balanced and how the game should be played? Let's talk about how "Balanced" that is.
    That is mostly spirit shell, and pretty much everyone agrees it needed a nerf. I'd agree it needs to be nerfed even more, so as too discourage Disc stacking to completely negate certain mechanics. I suggested a 30sec debuff like "Weakened Shell" that means you can't be "shelled" again after benefiting from Spirit Shell or something similar.

  2. #242
    I don't agree with shell not working with mastery, that's a half assed change TBH.


    Just give it a cap.. 20% of our health similar to what DA has.

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  3. #243
    Already has a cap; 60%. 20% is less than a single PW:S, reachable in one cast.

    The problem is, you cap it in 10s and run out of targets unless the AoE already started. Yet, you don't run out of people to SS in 25s, even with one IF. So, in 25s it has a very, very big room to scale...

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    So doing double the amount of healing over all your other healers in a raid,


    On a different note, the patch won't be coming out for at LEAST another month.. maybe 1.5 months with the rate they are going on testing/changes.

    It's very likely disc will see some form of buff to either PoH or some other ability to increase raw throughput a little bit to balance out the amount of absorbs we lost from DA.

    1) I don't think people need to be freaking out about the changes as much as they are *yet*

    2) I don't think that the changes, if they stayed the same, will truly break disc. They just buffed PW:S for disc, so you are going to be seeing shields upwards of 200k come 5.2 if the changes stay. (Granted you are stacking mastery)


    3) Absorbs will be the same probably on the meters, maybe a little less... obviously for balance sake. But instead of seeing "SS followed by DA followed by POH" you will probably see "PW:S/Spirit Shell (Depending on the fight) PoH, Atonment"


    They didn't completely nerf our ability to heal, they simply changed the way we do it now...
    There is no indication that they are buffing PWS, that is currently just a buggy tooltip atm.

    PWS is still too expensive. Do you realise what blizzard have done with it?

    Before a PWS would set you back 18.3k mana or so and would return easily 35k on average from rapture with 13k spirit due to the scaling from spirit procs. Now the same PWS will cost you 13.7k mana and will return 19.5k mana. With the old model casting 2 PWS per rapture period would cost you 1k mana. With the new model casting 2x PWS will now set you back 6k mana. Blizzard did not make rolling PWS cheaper. They made it more expensive. You won't be able to use much PWS and using it in a clump before a raid spike is just too inefficient. You need to make use of borrowed time to make PWS worth casting. Otherwise its just a tool for ooming yourself fast.

    They nerfed too much too fast and they didn't give discipline any new way of healing. All they did was buff binding heal and penance and effectively remove PoH from our repertoire, because right now it is just too weak and people who think crit will make it better are in for a surprise.

  5. #245
    Why can't they keep disc exactly how they are, and all the other classes turn off absorbs on recount so they can feel like they're winning?

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    Why can't they keep disc exactly how they are, and all the other classes turn off absorbs on recount so they can feel like they're winning?
    Not sure if serious.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos View Post
    Not sure if serious.
    What's wrong with that idea?

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    What's wrong with that idea?
    Absorbs don't show on BG healing meters, and occasionally even get criticized for the perceived lack of performance. Hiding absorbs in PvE would make things 100x worse.

    Numbers and meters matter, no matter what Blizzard claims. The lack of meters is partly why SWTOR failed.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Absorbs don't show on BG healing meters, and occasionally even get criticized for the perceived lack of performance. Hiding absorbs in PvE would make things 100x worse.

    Numbers and meters matter, no matter what Blizzard claims. The lack of meters is partly why SWTOR failed.
    So they need to buff disc then in order to compete. I don't understand the fuss from other classes about absorbs. They're healers. Discs are healers and absorbs. Why they would look at the absorb part is beyond me.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    I don't understand the fuss from other classes about absorbs. Why they would look at the absorb part is beyond me.
    The allure of an mmo is not only co-operation, but also COMPETITION.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    The allure of an mmo is not only co-operation, but also COMPETITION.
    So wouldn't it make even more sense for them to see how they're doing against other pure healing classes and leave disc out of it? Seriously, just turn off absorbs on recount and disc will be at the bottom and then all the other healers can feel like they've accomplished something. That way I don't have to re-learn my class every patch.

  12. #252
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    So wouldn't it make even more sense for them to see how they're doing against other pure healing classes and leave disc out of it? Seriously, just turn off absorbs on recount and disc will be at the bottom and then all the other healers can feel like they've accomplished something. That way I don't have to re-learn my class every patch.
    Except you're forgetting one key fundamental flaw : THAT ISN'T HOW IT WORKS.

    The more mitigation a disc priest is providing = the less healing the rest of the raid is doing. Ergo, simply "taking absorbs out of Recount" doesn't make disc look bad, it makes EVERYONE look bad.

    Beyond which, Recount doesn't matter. World of Logs does. Ever take a look over there? You can't "turn off absorbs", and lo and behold, EHPS leaders through pretty much every single solitary AoE encounter in this tier is....you guessed it, discipline priests.

    To clarify, I'll give you a rundown of the top 10 of the fights where AoE is present in higher quantities, and how many of the top 10 spots discipline occupies.

    Protectors : 7
    Wind Lord : 10
    Amber Shaper : 5
    Shek'zeer : 10
    Feng : 4
    Elegon : 4

    Notice how two fights are completely and utterly DOMINATED by discipline priests. That's just 10-MAN. Want to see 25?

    Zor'lok : 7
    Wind Lord : 10
    Amber Shaper : 10
    Shek'zeer : 7
    Lei Shi : 8 (I don't even...)
    Protectors : 7 (both normal and elite modes)

    I'm sorry that you have to "relearn your class", but the spec is clearly broken. I'm playing both. Not only is this not even fun, it's not even how healing should work. At least BC holy priest used more than one spell more often than not to win at healing (for the old school priests, you know what I'm talking about here). Disc doesn't even do that. It's PoH = 100k HPS. Everyone else is healing their asses off to try and get close to that with everything in their arsenal while you just sit there going "la la la" targeting a random person in a party and pushing your 1 key. It's arcane mage for healers, and it's terrible.

    Maybe you're not cut out for healing if that kind of playstyle doesn't bother you. I've been doing it for seven years, all on priest. I'm glad they're fixing it. It's justified and it's needed. Granted, I think there's better solutions (just simply remove the additional 20% mastery bonus discipline gets and boom, fixed), but anything to get people to realize that priests have more than one healing spec is good enough for me.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Except you're forgetting one key fundamental flaw : THAT ISN'T HOW IT WORKS.

    The more mitigation a disc priest is providing = the less healing the rest of the raid is doing. Ergo, simply "taking absorbs out of Recount" doesn't make disc look bad, it makes EVERYONE look bad.

    Beyond which, Recount doesn't matter. World of Logs does. Ever take a look over there? You can't "turn off absorbs", and lo and behold, EHPS leaders through pretty much every single solitary AoE encounter in this tier is....you guessed it, discipline priests.

    To clarify, I'll give you a rundown of the top 10 of the fights where AoE is present in higher quantities, and how many of the top 10 spots discipline occupies.

    Protectors : 7
    Wind Lord : 10
    Amber Shaper : 5
    Shek'zeer : 10
    Feng : 4
    Elegon : 4

    Notice how two fights are completely and utterly DOMINATED by discipline priests. That's just 10-MAN. Want to see 25?

    Zor'lok : 7
    Wind Lord : 10
    Amber Shaper : 10
    Shek'zeer : 7
    Lei Shi : 8 (I don't even...)
    Protectors : 7 (both normal and elite modes)

    I'm sorry that you have to "relearn your class", but the spec is clearly broken. I'm playing both. Not only is this not even fun, it's not even how healing should work. At least BC holy priest used more than one spell more often than not to win at healing (for the old school priests, you know what I'm talking about here). Disc doesn't even do that. It's PoH = 100k HPS. Everyone else is healing their asses off to try and get close to that with everything in their arsenal while you just sit there going "la la la" targeting a random person in a party and pushing your 1 key. It's arcane mage for healers, and it's terrible.

    Maybe you're not cut out for healing if that kind of playstyle doesn't bother you. I've been doing it for seven years, all on priest. I'm glad they're fixing it. It's justified and it's needed. Granted, I think there's better solutions (just simply remove the additional 20% mastery bonus discipline gets and boom, fixed), but anything to get people to realize that priests have more than one healing spec is good enough for me.
    If the bosses are dying before the raid, what does it matter what the meters say? What does it matter that all the healers "look bad"? Everyone is still alive, so I figure that looks really good.

    You have this interesting passive aggressive thing going on. Yes, I know WOL and I would rank weekly in Cata. Only ranked a few times this tier due to lack of progression and now I'm behind the gear curve, but still consistently get in the top 90 percentile in ranking info with my leet blues.
    I am cut out for healing because I've been playing since Mauradon came out, raided everything and I even kept my Benediction from the glory days when I was spamming heal rank 2 and I was one of the few priests we had that could have 2 renews on a tank.

    But you go ahead, keep acting like a meter matters. Hint, it doesn't. The only thing that matters is the boss' HP hitting zero before your raid.

  14. #254
    Fenixdown has just owned your face there dimsumlol, you should curl up in a corner and cry yourself to sleep. L2P.

  15. #255
    Disagree. WOL doesn't matter. Meters don't matter. Boss HP hitting zero before the raid is what matters. If you don't like the arcane mage style of disc priests then go play a shaman that spams OP rain. Or a pally that spams OP radiance or a druid that spams OP growth or a monk that spams OP crane kick. My god, prayer of healing (and our 90 talent) are the only aoe spells we have. It's quite obvious what we're going to be spamming.

    Even after they nerf it, you do realize we'll still just be spamming prayer of healing, right? The only thing is they're going to make us useless. That sounds like fun.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    Disagree. WOL doesn't matter. Meters don't matter. Boss HP hitting zero before the raid is what matters. If you don't like the arcane mage style of disc priests then go play a shaman that spams OP rain. Or a pally that spams OP radiance or a druid that spams OP growth or a monk that spams OP crane kick. My god, prayer of healing (and our 90 talent) are the only aoe spells we have. It's quite obvious what we're going to be spamming.

    Even after they nerf it, you do realize we'll still just be spamming prayer of healing, right? The only thing is they're going to make us useless. That sounds like fun.
    Not sure if dumb or trolling....."Meters dont matter" Wrong, it does matter.
    So if were all spamming our OP spells but the disc priest version of spams beats the rest into the ground then thats ok?
    Btw have you tried disc in ptr's or watch streams of ptr's? Blood Legions Stream shows disc priests still topping the meters. So actually disc still needs more nerfs in my opinion. Hope discs gets more tuning, still too op.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by shabbaaaaa View Post
    Not sure if dumb or trolling....."Meters dont matter" Wrong, it does matter.
    So if were all spamming our OP spells but the disc priest version of spams beats the rest into the ground then thats ok?
    Btw have you tried disc in ptr's or watch streams of ptr's? Blood Legions Stream shows disc priests still topping the meters. So actually disc still needs more nerfs in my opinion. Hope discs gets more tuning, still too op.
    So because I don't agree with you I'm either dumb or trolling? I don't agree with that.
    Please explain to me why a meter matters. There is no in-game damage meter. If it was necessary to have one and they "mattered" then they would be included with the game.
    In my opinion the only thing that matters is the boss kill. Who cares what the numbers say as long as the boss goes down?

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsumlol View Post
    So because I don't agree with you I'm either dumb or trolling? I don't agree with that.
    Please explain to me why a meter matters. There is no in-game damage meter. If it was necessary to have one and they "mattered" then they would be included with the game.
    In my opinion the only thing that matters is the boss kill. Who cares what the numbers say as long as the boss goes down?
    You're dumb because it's a false copout argument used by people who don't think things through. Meters matter because you want to have the biggest chance of killing hard bosses. If you're still 4/6 MSV, then no, meters don't matter. But otherwise, you use meters and logs to see "Oh, that guy only did 30k DPS" or "Oh, she's dying to X 50% of the time." Meters also allow you to compare yourself to your peers, driving competition, ultimately improving everything for trying harder. So because Disc Priests top the meters (In some cases, grossly so), they effectively take out competition, and they definitely eliminate any argument about which class/player you should bring, because the answer is almost always a Disc Priest, unless you already have 3.

    You may now proceed to grasp at straws to prove me wrong.

    PS: I'm a Disc Priest myself.

  19. #259
    Try to think about how absorbs affect the meter and what the result is, and you might realise that for discs to be anywhere close to competitive in a setting with predictable raid damage we need to be topping the meter.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    I don't agree with shell not working with mastery, that's a half assed change TBH.
    Current PTR build:

    - Spirit shell works with mastery
    - Passive Divine Aegis removed from Prayer of Healing: this is nerf for Spirit Shell too
    - PW:S absorb increased by 40%
    - PW:S mana cost reduced by 25%
    - Rapture gives mana equal to 150% of your spirit.
    - Penance increased by 20%

    Hope these changes are final, looks fine for me

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