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  1. #21
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    Yes. Holy priests will rise. Just above the disc brethren, unfortunately. I join the bandwagon in questioning how 0% DA on PoH can be enough, if 30% wasn't enough when MoP was launched. Sure, 50% was too much. How about numbers between 35-45?

    Rapture change is a change indeed and that alone will have to played out before I cast my vote. As the mana allows, at the moment, I do sometimes send quite few PWS's as a panic button. Terribly manainnefficient, but I suppose that's how Blizz wanted it to play out.

    If these are to go live (given how often _most_ classes go straight from overpowered to dead last, I fear they do in somewhat similar forms..), I fear that I will indeed have two specs to choose from. That would be okay, but unfortunately both of them will be fighting for the last spot. Unless we have massive damage modifiers for atonement to be supported during T15. But is that more compelling play than actually SS'ing PoHs according to timers?

    Here's hoping that the dev team will realize that these hits will make disc awful in raiding scene, and secondly, that while they will increase holy priest population, they will still not score much higher numbers than they currently are. As in, I'd wager them to beat disc, but disc will still have benefit of SS. Pretty equal between the two, just thousands behind the others. And that's what counts. I wouldn't mind playing either of the specs.

  2. #22
    High Overlord -Virgo-'s Avatar
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    I fear the changes will place Disc in the same bad place it was at the beginning of MoP. We lose our source of AoE mitigation, gaining a buff for single target healing that was not needed at all. Moreover, it will affect greatly our stat weights, meaning that we will find ourselves in trouble after 5.2 is released since our current gear is firstly mastey-oriented.


    Awesome signature by Rivellana

  3. #23
    updated patchnotes:
    • Flash Heal's healing has been reduced by 30%. A new passive (available at level 10) increases Flash Heal's healing by 43% for Holy and Discipline Priests.
    • Glyph of Desperation has been replaced with Glyph of Binding Heal. Pain Suppression and Guardian Spirit can now always be cast while stunned.
    • New Glyph: Glyph of Binding Heal applies Binding Heal a third nearby friendly target, but costs 35% more mana.
    • Glyph of Inner Focus has been replaced with Glyph of Weakened Soul. Casting Inner Focus now always grants 5 seconds of immunity to Silences, Interrupts, and Dispels.
    • New Glyph: Glyph of Weakened Soul reduces the duration of Weakened Soul by 2 seconds.
    • Penance damage and healing has been increased by 20%.
    • Rapture now reduces the cost of Power Word: Shield by 25% and provides mana equal to 150% (was 200%) of the Priest's Spirit, but no longer benefits from Spirit provided by short-duration bonuses.
    more at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/822...Live-1_16_2013

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mccord View Post
    Good for PvP, at least, but we knew this was coming.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cianxo View Post
    Yes. Holy priests will rise. Just above the disc brethren, unfortunately. I join the bandwagon in questioning how 0% DA on PoH can be enough, if 30% wasn't enough when MoP was launched. Sure, 50% was too much. How about numbers between 35-45?

    Rapture change is a change indeed and that alone will have to played out before I cast my vote. As the mana allows, at the moment, I do sometimes send quite few PWS's as a panic button. Terribly manainnefficient, but I suppose that's how Blizz wanted it to play out.

    If these are to go live (given how often _most_ classes go straight from overpowered to dead last, I fear they do in somewhat similar forms..), I fear that I will indeed have two specs to choose from. That would be okay, but unfortunately both of them will be fighting for the last spot. Unless we have massive damage modifiers for atonement to be supported during T15. But is that more compelling play than actually SS'ing PoHs according to timers?

    Here's hoping that the dev team will realize that these hits will make disc awful in raiding scene, and secondly, that while they will increase holy priest population, they will still not score much higher numbers than they currently are. As in, I'd wager them to beat disc, but disc will still have benefit of SS. Pretty equal between the two, just thousands behind the others. And that's what counts. I wouldn't mind playing either of the specs.
    For people who played in cata specifically, disc did not have the luxury of Spirit Shell to give them reason to be in raids, mostly it was PW:S and PW:Barrier.


    I feel these changes are going back to that method of healing, with the addition of spirit shell, a buffed penance as well as some neat disc glyphs to help.

    If you ask me, healing as disc in tier 11 cata was the most fun I had healing as a priest in the 5 years I have been playing one. You PW:S when you knew aoe was coming, then PoH to heal the AOE and had a weaker atonment for downtime and situational use.


    Where now, you have most of those things + other tools + some seriously good atonment heals to create flavor and variety to your casts.

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgo- View Post
    I fear the changes will place Disc in the same bad place it was at the beginning of MoP. We lose our source of AoE mitigation, gaining a buff for single target healing that was not needed at all. Moreover, it will affect greatly our stat weights, meaning that we will find ourselves in trouble after 5.2 is released since our current gear is firstly mastey-oriented.
    I don't think we're being nerfed as much as it looks. These look like massive nerfs on paper, but in practice I think it will be a neutral change. Yes, I'm being serious.

    Blizzard is obviously nerfing the shit out of PoH to finally kill off PoH spam. What's not so obvious is they are compensating for this by allowing us to make heavy use of PW:S again (aka bubble botting) and buffing penance; they flat out said this is their intention.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We might in the future add another AE heal for Disc (I think you can make a compelling argument that in this day and age, healers need a variety of interesting AE heals and maybe only a couple of ST heals, while healer design for years went in the opposite direction) but that's not the sort of thing we want to drop on you in the middle of an expansion. In the meantime, if Disc uses Penance and PW:Shield some more (and Flash Heal in PvP) and doesn't trounce all the other healers, we will be satisfied and hopefully so will priest
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We actually want Disc to get back to using PW:Shield a little more, along with Penance.
    I think it's pretty clear they want us to start using PW:S as a raid healing tool again instead of mindlessly spamming PoH.

  7. #27
    I think bubble botting is a very hit or miss type of healing. If it is mana efficient to spam PW:Shield, we could potentially stack mastery like we did in the beginning of cata and have an instant, low mana cost (rewards mana every 12seconds) 100k+ bubble and if it's not mana efficient then we have no raid healing other than atonement.

  8. #28
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Nerfs were totally needed, but Im not sure if this is the right way, we'll not know until we get to try it out for real, seems weird that PW shield was so lacklustre.

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    THANK GOD, Blizzard actually made SMART changes to disc.. instead of just NERFING abilities, they made SMART changes to change the way we play.


    I feel like the changes bring us back to cataclysm where disc was more about PW:S and doing actual RAW healing VS just a single spell doing all of it for you.



    I still want to see how they plan on buffing penance.




    Long story short: Holy is going to be just as good as disc is, and thats how it should be. RISE HOLY PRIESTS RISE!!!


    /joy
    Divine Aegis is no longer guaranteed when Prayer of Healing is cast. The effect now procs when the spell crits.

    SMART CHANGES? dont make me wrong but this change will gonna destroy our HPS so badly... For me this is the majore nerf and I didnt expect it. Bye full mastery itemization.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    For people who played in cata specifically, disc did not have the luxury of Spirit Shell to give them reason to be in raids, mostly it was PW:S and PW:Barrier.


    I feel these changes are going back to that method of healing, with the addition of spirit shell, a buffed penance as well as some neat disc glyphs to help.

    If you ask me, healing as disc in tier 11 cata was the most fun I had healing as a priest in the 5 years I have been playing one. You PW:S when you knew aoe was coming, then PoH to heal the AOE and had a weaker atonment for downtime and situational use.


    Where now, you have most of those things + other tools + some seriously good atonment heals to create flavor and variety to your casts.
    Not exactly. They took PW:S raid healing from WotLK and DA stacking Cata, then mashed them together. Blizzard might have finally figured out how we can have our cake and eat it to by giving us two different shields that can be used to prevent raid damage. This allows us to blanket the raid with shields, without actually spamming the same spell over and over again. Now we will have a meaningful choice to make, do we use SS or PW:S? SS is good for big predictable damage, PW:S good for moderate predictable damage, and then atonement/PoH for healing the damage that SS/PW:S didn't catch.

    I'm actually kind of excited because I despise the current model of disc healing, as we are extremely inflexible. For some fights DA/SS make us gods, while other fights, DA/SS is borederline useless. This new design should hopefully fix that.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashi View Post
    this change will gonna destroy our HPS so badly... For me this is the majore nerf and I didnt expect it. Bye full mastery itemization.
    I lol when I see responses like this,Take a look at world of logs, and click the 25 man Heroic tab:

    Hey look ALL Disc Priests, and if that's not enough for you click any of the names you see and compare them to what the other healers are doing. I clicked on one just to see the difference and look at what i got:

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vykf6nyuqzrbb894/sum/healingDone/?s=6664&e=7508#Siory

    Totally Balanced and fair to other healers amirite?

    inb4 boss is down who cares.... Guess what I dont pay 15$ a month to have my thumbs up my arse in raids. I like to actually contribute and do some real healing in raids. Im looking forward to 5.2 healing, wish it would come sooner.

    P.S. I not getting this just from World of Logs, This is Exactly whats going on in my 25 heroic guild raids.
    Last edited by arcaneme; 2013-01-17 at 07:08 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cianxo View Post
    Yes. Holy priests will rise. Just above the disc brethren, unfortunately. I join the bandwagon in questioning how 0% DA on PoH can be enough, if 30% wasn't enough when MoP was launched. Sure, 50% was too much. How about numbers between 35-45?
    Did you not read it? It procs off crits. With more crit coming in 5.2 from better gear you will probably see around 20% or adjusted depending on your stat weights and situation. And don't forget the amount increased when it procs. So factor those two numbers together. You may....... even need to move your weights to crit from mastery on certain fights /gasp. A small nerf was needed to this, and this seems very justified to me.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 2013-01-17 at 08:17 AM.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneme View Post
    I lol when I see responses like this,Take a look at world of logs, and click the 25 man Heroic tab:

    Hey look ALL Disc Priests, and if that's not enough for you click any of the names you see and compare them to what the other healers are doing. I clicked on one just to see the difference and look at what i got:

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vykf6nyuqzrbb894/sum/healingDone/?s=6664&e=7508#Siory

    Totally Balanced and fair to other healers amirite?

    inb4 boss is down who cares.... Guess what I dont pay 15$ a month to have my thumbs up my arse in raids. I like to actually contribute and do some real healing in raids. Im looking forward to 5.2 healing, wish it would come sooner.

    P.S. I not getting this just from World of Logs, This is Exactly whats going on in my 25 heroic guild raids.
    Well if you compare worlds best WORLD OF LOGS from disc priests who cares just about HPS of course it seems its over the top.

    And if you dont care about anything just to boss get down why you even bother to look at healing at all?
    Last edited by Vashi; 2013-01-17 at 08:19 AM.

  14. #34
    I'm kind of torn.

    The rebalancing is needed, the emphasis on PoH needs to be reduced, but at the same time I don't feel like shifting the burden to PW:Shield is very desirable due to stackability issues.

  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral Cryonic's Avatar
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    I'm confused, people were talking about how fun disc would be to play after the BUFFS just the other evening, now I see discussion about them after the NERF.

    What direction are disc priest going actually? (PvE/PvP wise)
    ..:: Lvl 90's: 56 ::..

  16. #36
    Quite surprised at the erratic nerfing/buffing that we've seen from Blizzard over the course of this expansion. Also quite surprised at the lack of uniformity in the design teams view. How can you shift from one extreme to another over the course of a few months? Seems like they are lacking a serious dose of foresight.

    Many players have forgotten the start of this expansion. When no HC guilds would even take Disc priests due to their poor utility, poor HPS and poor mana regen. Most of us who were interested in progress were forced to reforge to Haste and go Holy. And, even then, priests were borderline useless aside from Divine Hymn and some reasonable tank healing. So, we got a large buff. The buff scaled well if you were good, if you weren't playing optimally you probably got even lazier. Blizzard noticed this, and the QQ from the healing community probably forced their hand to such an extent that we are now presented with a PTR note that is completely contradicts everything Blizzard have said and done regarding Disc priests since those dark days at the start of the expansion.

    I wont get into the number crunching as thats not my area. I'll wait until the new content is released and the raiding begins before I jump to any conclusions regarding the state of priests. However, if these changes are introduced as is then I predict we will see a similar process to the start of MoP and we will once again be in a constant state of change and development; in essence an unifinished product.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryonic View Post
    What direction are disc priest going actually? (PvE/PvP wise)
    They're being balanced to be more in line with all healing specs and classes. Almost every heroic guild now requires a disc a priest.

  18. #38
    Also, I notice there's been no discussion of the Binding Heal redesign. This is quite interesting and could lead to a more dynamic and mana efficient way to AoE heal. Furthermore, if you currently need the full SS cast time to build maxed out shields in 10-man HC you are just bad at this game and should reroll. I don't see any harm in a weaker SS. If we still have the same amount of time to cast it, and it still retains synergy with AA/PI/IF then there will be no problem building max shields, it will just be a little more arduous.

    Finally, DA was clearly overpowered and needed this nerf. But surely just stacking Crit instead of Mastery will solve this? It will give a huge Atonement buff, which coupled with a few more points in haste will be excellent for healing mild raid damage. When this damage increased, then you will need to be smart about popping AA/IF/PI and combing these with your toolkit to maximize your output. These changes will not cause the smart players as many problems as it will the baddies. My only concern here is that we are still able to compete with the rest. I don't want to find a mediocre player outperforming me when I play optimally, that was the situation at the start of the expansion and thats what Blizzard must avoid.

  19. #39
    Disc priests should have been nerfed, but not this way, another lazy solution by Blizzard. They should have kept PoH DA the way it was (100% on PoH, just lower percantage), give discs priests a new spell for AoE healing (or enhance a current spell to make it appealing), and nerf absorbs. Now they want disc priests to use PW:S in a more spammable way (which is stupid). I do like what they did to FH and glyph of BH looks very promising for me as holy (will the 3rd heal be a smart heal or just heal whoever is closest to you/the target?).

    As for holy, I'm bummed Blizzard did nothing for our regen and chakra, seems like they ignored all the issues and just went ahead and nerfed disc to the ground so it can compare to holy. I still think disc will be more desirable for progression groups than holy, mostly due to utility and regen. But at least holy should have the edge with raw hps now.

    sigh...
    Last edited by Blachshma; 2013-01-17 at 10:44 AM.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    It seems like the PoH DA change was made because of pvp qq over DA? I guess we'll just have to reforge more into crit instead of mastery. I don't really mind going back to spamming bubble on the raid, it'll just get kind of boring to do after awhile. Going to reforge/re-gem on the ptr and see how bad the DA "nerf" really is.
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