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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Nerf is not so nerf as it seems. Just stacking moar crit and all the DA shit is back.
    IMO, they should remove DA completely. The mechanic is so corrupted and there is no chance to balance DA absorbs with heal mechanics of other non-absorb healers. Any smart Disc will always be so much ahead of pretty anything just because his absorbs. There is no way to be as effective as Disc when you have no or very little damage to heal, lol.
    So much this really. Disc priest make the rest of the healers look bad because absorbs come first. Any Disc priest who knows what he's doing knows when the damage spikes are coming, and as a result us other healers have less to do. We simply cannot compete as we always come second.

  2. #42
    Pre-shielding when you know big damage is on the way for select targets is fine. Trying to keep shields up on the entire raid is a strategy that we think A) is too good, and B) isn't fun. I think a lot of the players who think it is fun feel that way because it's overpowered, not because it's a really engaging activity. When your decision making consists of cycling through targets and casting PW:S on any target without Weakened Soul, then you aren't really responding to the encounter -- you're acting like a glorified macro. Now maybe some of you will argue that you take a lot more into consideration before executing a pre-heal, but the fact is that Disc priests can be unbelievably effective without doing so. -Ghostcrawler http: //www . wowblues . com/us/save-power-word-shield-25626107959 . html

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    Pre-shielding when you know big damage is on the way for select targets is fine. Trying to keep shields up on the entire raid is a strategy that we think A) is too good, and B) isn't fun. I think a lot of the players who think it is fun feel that way because it's overpowered, not because it's a really engaging activity. When your decision making consists of cycling through targets and casting PW:S on any target without Weakened Soul, then you aren't really responding to the encounter -- you're acting like a glorified macro. Now maybe some of you will argue that you take a lot more into consideration before executing a pre-heal, but the fact is that Disc priests can be unbelievably effective without doing so. -Ghostcrawler http: //www . wowblues . com/us/save-power-word-shield-25626107959 . html
    Like only keeping shields up on tanks and the strike target on wind lord since no one else should be taking damage on that fight
    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stranger

  4. #44
    Legendary! Rivellana's Avatar
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    Do we have any number crunchers here who can get on the PTR and test out the changes, perhaps even checking out what it would look like if we were to change up reforges from mastery as we currently have to crit? I'd love to get on there but my PTR account is one of the "bugged" ones that all the realms appear red for, I can't access it and Blizzard has no fix yet.

    I'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks, but after playing a mistweaver for the first two months of the expansion and having three or four knee jerk nerfs thrown at me, I'm not optimistic about what disc priests will actually end up with when the patch hits.

    I wouldn't mind a minor change away from PoH to being able to use PW:S more and get more healing out of penance, I actually enjoyed using that style of play in WotLK and even somewhat in Cataclysm. However, it looks like they're trying to force us to choose between or try to balance out our crit and mastery more than just stacking mastery like every disc priest is doing right now. We could go crit heavy and still get lots of DA procs from our PoH but the bubbles won't absorb as much because we'll have less mastery, or we could stick with mastery and not get as many bubbles because we'd have less crits.

    Judging from charts I've seen comparing healers recently, they're getting closer on balancing healing classes to each other which I'm sure is their intention. The buff to resto druids should help quite a bit as far as that is concerned, and I'm glad that we'll actually feel like we have a choice between if we want to play disc or holy because one spec won't be significantly above the other anymore, but if we end up getting nerfed too far it's looking like holy paladins will end up being the new OP healing class for 5.2.

    I just strongly dislike how every patch they decide to completely change a healing style into something else so you have to re-learn everything every two months.

  5. #45
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    My guild will do doing the PTR testing tonight. We currently have 3 Discs in our 8 healer roster so chances are we'll be using a Disc Priest (unless they all decide on going Holy). Can report back here with the WoLs (if I'm allowed to make them public). Otherwise I can ask them for their experiences. On paper it looks like crit > mastery > haste, however in FL crit was superior to both haste and mastery yet every Disc Priest geared for haste/mastery simply due to the consistency - something which is no longer available to PoH (with regards to it's synergy with DA).

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    it's looking like holy paladins will end up being the new OP healing class for 5.2.
    As if they aren't already stupidly good (And stupidly boring) now?

  7. #47
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    I always thought DA was overbuffed, but this change will turn disc mastery into a very poor stat: since it was removed from SS, it will basically affect PWS and healing crits, and I'm not really buying the "come better gear, you'll have enough crit to not care". Crit needs very high amounts to become reliable and even then, RNG is not what you want as a healer. Considering they removed Renewed Hope, crit has a poor synergy with the specc atm: sure, it procs aegis, but there is nothing you can actively do to proc it when you need it.

    I also dont buy the "you will spam PWS" thing. 50% mana cost reduced will turn it into a 10k mana heal; it will be neutral for the rapture procs around 11k spirit, and slightly mana gaining after, but even if its not gonna be as punishing to spam as it is nowadays, I still dont see it viable to spam (nor do I think its a smart concept anyway).

    I agree disc needed nerfs, but I wouldn't call these especially "smart". More like recycled wrath material. I dunno about you guys, but I didnt miss the LK hc shield spam in the slightest .

  8. #48
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    The issue with Discipline, and not many like to admit it, is that for Discipline to be remotely balance it needs to be throughput wise the worst healer. The reason is because a 100k absorb is a lot more strong than a 100k heal. Especially if you can, and good Discs are able to, anticipate damage.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Manamontana View Post
    The issue with Discipline, and not many like to admit it, is that for Discipline to be remotely balance it needs to be throughput wise the worst healer. The reason is because a 100k absorb is a lot more strong than a 100k heal. Especially if you can, and good Discs are able to, anticipate damage.
    Yes, except that the only way left to preventively place absorbs on everyone appear to be bubble spam, which a lot of discs will agree, is an incredibly lazy mechanic and absolutely no more fun than just poh spamming.
    I agree disc needs nerfing, but totally removing guaranteed DA on poh leaves us with a dilemma concerning aoe healing. Wait & see I guess.

  10. #50
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    Why does it though? PoH is still incredibly strong even without DA. It's a 2~ sec cast time heal (with passive haste from gear and raid buffs) which heals for 40-45k (judging from my guild's logs) on 5 people: that's almost 80-100k hps and it's a spammable heal. The only limitation is the usage (party requirement). However, in fights where you will be spamming PoH (in 5.2, not now) there will be passive AoE damage on everyone. The issue is with a 100% guarantee on PoH to generate DA it doesn't matter how good haste and crit are because you'll be gearing towards mastery for that insurance, the 100% knowledge that you'll get a consistent bonus. During FL crit was better than both haste and mastery for Discipline, but every Disc geared towards haste/mastery simply due to the consistence that mastery and DA.

    It becomes an issue when a player prefers using PoH over FH/Heal/Greater Heal for tank healing simply due to the guarantee on DA. I think that's wrong.

    I feel though many Discs dislike this because it's a total twist on how Disc is supposed to be played. I admit it seems rather odd that for all of Cataclysm Blizzard were fine with a blanketed DA on the raid, but I guess mastery scaling got out of hand. Either way, the new direction of Discipline seems centred around "poor throughput, but powerful absorbs" - this means you'll still be useful. As I previously stated, a 100k absorb is a lot more powerful than a 100k heal. More so if the 100k absorb is on a player with 50k life about to take a 100k hit (note: the heal, in this scenario, wouldn't do anything because the player would be dead).

    I will say this though - these changes are an indirect buff for all current HoT classes (Resto Druids and MW, arguably Holy Priests). Hopefully we'll see more even ground on HPS parses. Remember guys, Holy is by no means a weak spec: it's competitive, it's just not the current iteration of Discipline. I wouldn't be surprised to see Resto Druids, Mistweavers and Holy Priests parsing ranks 1-3 consistently in 5.2 (assuming nothing else changes).
    Last edited by mmocdf700697f3; 2013-01-17 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #51
    Legendary! Rivellana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kouby View Post
    I agree disc needs nerfing, but totally removing guaranteed DA on poh leaves us with a dilemma concerning aoe healing. Wait & see I guess.
    I suppose Blizzard thinks that leaving it in place and lowering the amount of absorb done by DA from 50% to say, 40% or even less would still have priests spamming PoH if the DA was still guaranteed.

    I would have welcomed that nerf a bit more, I think, than what they're trying to do now.

  12. #52
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    I find hideous how people complain about Disc mechanics, absorbs aren't something new brought by MoP.

    The difference between Disc and other healing specs is that Disc must mitigate damage before it occurs, while others have to fill health bars if shields are gone (and, in that case, Disc has to be "worse").

    What makes other healers feel "weak" is the fact that a spell like Spirit Shell is a CD of only 1 min: what Disc missed before MoP was a ride-wide CD, Blizz should have made SS a 3 min CD and leave the rest as it was, in this way we wouldn't be here arguing about a spec that goes constantly from OP to completely crappy.
    Last edited by mmocad1d881d35; 2013-01-17 at 04:09 PM.

  13. #53
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    The reason is because a 100k absorb is a lot more strong than a 100k heal.
    I've always questioned the validity of this. Lets assume a raid with players that have 100k hp.

    If there is 100k dmg on the raid, unavoidable, predictable, a 100k shield is better than a 100k heal, for obvious reasons. Still, no encounter has such mechanics.
    If there is 90k dmg on the raid, unavoidable,predictable, a 100k shield is better than an 100k heal, but you can work with both, only riskier.
    If there is 50k dmg on the raid, unavoidable, predictable, a 100k shield is just as fine as a 100k heal, nobody cares if you get "healed" 2 seconds before the dmg or 2 sec after the dmg, the result is the same.
    Now, if there is 100k dmg, unpredictable, your raid is probably doing it wrong.
    If there is any other unpredictable dmg, 100k shield is more useless than any heal.

    IS all the dmg in wow unpredictable or unhealable? No. Then shields are not mandatory, nor miles better. Are shields an utility? Yes, but its an utility that also shows on the meters (except barrier). Do we have a way to weight the other healers utilities and compare? No. Can we say which is better, absorbs or a mana tide or a combat ress, or an aura mastery? Sure some of them aren't unique to healers, but it still doesn't change the fact that disc priests dont have them, nor the fact that dmg prevention isnt reserved to disc priests, even if they hold a large part of the niche.

    I'm not overly bothered by absorbs being pushed back for disc. I'm bothered by the fact that atm, if you strip disc of absorbs, the result is a starving puppy. Sure, nerf absorbs to the ground, make them be more of an utility and less of a main tool, since they are judged as utility anyway. But you dont bring any person in a raid only for his utility. And nobody likes to play the "we need you in the raid once every minute because we cant get around stuff without it until we overgear this shit a bit". So, what about nerfing the absorbs and giving us some normal healing, so we can compete fair and square in the hps dept?

    It becomes an issue when a player prefers using PoH over FH/Heal/Greater Heal for tank healing simply due to the guarantee on DA. I think that's wrong.
    Agree. Which is why we used to have renewed hope for a good synergy of crit with the disc specc. A crit buff specifically for single target healing, to make mastery work properly. Otherwise, crit might be awesome for meter padding, but it is worth squat if its not there when you need it, even tho your specc is built around it, because without aegis, a disc priest is a butchered holy priest with atonement.
    Last edited by mmoc318f6f4933; 2013-01-17 at 04:10 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I suppose Blizzard thinks that leaving it in place and lowering the amount of absorb done by DA from 50% to say, 40% or even less would still have priests spamming PoH if the DA was still guaranteed.

    I would have welcomed that nerf a bit more, I think, than what they're trying to do now.
    Their design goal with all healers is obvious: they do not want healers blanketing a raid without a drawback. Let's look at some history:

    FL + Druids? Druids got nerfed because they were able to blanket everyone and reduce the AoE damage of most encounters.
    DS + HPs? In Cata Holy Radiance got changed because all HPs were doing was spam-casting HR for a blanket AoE heal.
    Early MW? Renewing Mists + Chi Burst took a 25% nerf. SCK took a 30% nerf because both these spells blanketed the raid.
    5.2? Disc is getting nerfed so that it can no longer blanket the raid in 20-25k DAs constantly and alongside that they're nerfing the PvP Paladin 4 set because it results in EF blanketing.

    The design goal makes it easier to design raid encounters, and I welcome it. You can currently blanket the raid as a Resto Shaman or Holy Priest but they require very specific circumstances: both HW: Sanc and Healing Rain require the entire raid to be stacked (Garajal, Feng, Elegon p3, F&V, Unseen Strike etc) and it also comes with a large hit to mana (casting HR on CD as a Resto Shaman this tier is near impossible, most Shaman get by with using HR in conjunction with UE) but both are small healing effects which can't top people instantly. This I think Blizzard likes - it's the same with their plans for the 5.2 Zen Sphere and Resto Shrooms: situational burst AoE healing (although I personally believe all MWs are going to take Chi Wave because it's really strong).

    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    I'm not overly bothered by absorbs being pushed back for disc. I'm bothered by the fact that atm, if you strip disc of absorbs, the result is a starving puppy. Sure, nerf absorbs to the ground, make them be more of an utility and less of a main tool, since they are judged as utility anyway. But you dont bring any person in a raid only for his utility. And nobody likes to play the "we need you in the raid once every minute because we cant get around stuff without it until we overgear this shit a bit". So, what about nerfing the absorbs and giving us some normal healing, so we can compete fair and square in the hps dept?.
    You have strong normal heals though? I previously mentioned PoH: it has the potential to push 80-100k hps, which is around 33-50%~ better than CH which can generate some 55-70k hps (depending on buffs, ES, RT etc). You have Atonement which is a very strong source of healing. I think Atonement is actually better than the Mistweaver Eminence, Atonement is a 1.5 sec GCD vs a 2 sec GCD (1 for Jab, 1 for TP). I really do think you should wait for some empirical evidence. Guilds will be testing the PTR tonight, and if Discipline Priests are inline with Resto Druids (who I think need more buffs) then I'll agree there's an issue. If however a Disc Priest is tied, or slightly below, a MW then I see no issues with that considering the amount of utility a Disc Priest brings.
    Last edited by mmocdf700697f3; 2013-01-17 at 04:15 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    Pre-shielding when you know big damage is on the way for select targets is fine. Trying to keep shields up on the entire raid is a strategy that we think A) is too good, and B) isn't fun. I think a lot of the players who think it is fun feel that way because it's overpowered, not because it's a really engaging activity. When your decision making consists of cycling through targets and casting PW:S on any target without Weakened Soul, then you aren't really responding to the encounter -- you're acting like a glorified macro. Now maybe some of you will argue that you take a lot more into consideration before executing a pre-heal, but the fact is that Disc priests can be unbelievably effective without doing so. -Ghostcrawler http: //www . wowblues . com/us/save-power-word-shield-25626107959 . html
    Take a closer look at the specific problem he was talking about. The problem is not PW:S spam, it's that you had no choice but to spam PW:S.

    When your decision making consists of cycling through targets and casting PW:S on any target without Weakened Soul, then you aren't really responding to the encounter -- you're acting like a glorified macro.
    Our current plays style suffers from this exact same problem; lack of choice. At the time he wrote that, PW:S accounted for about 80% of all our healing. Now PoH accounts for about 80% for all our healing, it's just not as obvious because it's split between PoH+DA+SS.

    The design they are aiming for is a choice between PW:S, SS, PoH and Atonement. If PW:S ends up accounting for most of our healing again, then they've failed.

  16. #56

    Nerf isn't going right direction

    Hi, i never QQ on forums, but i think blizz is not on right direction. Im priest since naxx(25), i have been played mainly disc, and sometimes holy. Always ranked top in most encounters(is to explain im know holy/disc spec 100%).
    Blizzard must to remember: Lich king... "We don't want people spam just shields", so now you want the people spam a little right?

    I don't know why they buff DA to 50%, disc was fine with 30%, little bit low due to gear sure but not too much.
    We must to remember that now PoH is a good spell to use cause the bosses permit raid to be closer.
    I dont know why they buff shadowfiend when now nerf rapture.

    PoH must be redesigned to not be dependance on groups, and must have more strong heal and less absorb. Rapture must be at 250% without proc benefits, but not less. Think on trinkets, i will not choose trinkets with spirit procs if rapture is under 250%, cause probably is better to use some int+crit proc/haste proc from dps trinkets.

    And maybe Spirit Sheel CD must be incresed to 1,5min(probably to 2min if you give again the 10% increase healing from barrier).

    On the other hand, holy's mastery is weak, probably a change to +%X increased healing/increased stamina on target during 6seg, or something like that could be more intersting.
    Renew is a weak spell too, it doesn't scale very well and probably need a mechanic more like riptide's shaman, more duration.
    And lightwell+gliph is too strong compared rest of the spells, maybe need a nerf here, but a buff on rest of spells.

    It's my opinion.
    (sorry for my english) :-)

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    I've always questioned the validity of this. Lets assume a raid with players that have 100k hp.

    If there is 100k dmg on the raid, unavoidable, predictable, a 100k shield is better than a 100k heal, for obvious reasons. Still, no encounter has such mechanics.
    [...]
    It's simple.
    Absorption is always better than healing, because it increases the effective HP of the target.
    Even when - as you wrote - no encounter has mechanics that REQUIRE absorption, there are a lot of common situations where absorbs are far more helpful than a reactive heal after the damage came in. For example:
    - Player X (100k HP) gets hit for 50k by an unavoidable AoE ability from the boss. Then, that player does a movement fail and takes another 50k damage through his fail. If he had a shield on him, he would have survived that. And fails happen, even to top end players, they fail more rarely than most players (while performing better at the same time) but still do fail at times because it's close to impossible to get everything right on tough content for multiple hours long.
    - Player X (100k HP) gets hit for 70k by whatever and there's even more damage coming in in 1-2 seconds. In panic, he immediately uses a self-heal cooldown, healthstone, some other defensive cooldown or whatever. Then he gets healed up by normal heals. Now if that player had shields on him, he wouldn't have dropped so low and wouldn't have had to waste his cooldowns already. And not just *his* cooldowns - the other healers are just as likely to use a big healing cooldown or mana-inefficient fast heal to get him up fast.
    - Last but not least, reducing the incoming damage helps to ease the stress for healers when big damage is coming in all the time in a progression raid

    There are probably more examples but these are common situations.
    Last edited by TaurenNinja; 2013-01-17 at 04:27 PM.

  18. #58
    I play disc almost exclusively and I am quite happy with the changes and think it will bring us more in line with the other healers. I see a lot of QQ but that is expected with any form of nerf. I personally think the changes make sense and will not destroy the spec but merely bring it in line with the other healing classes and promote spell diversity.

    My summary/impressions of the changes are
    (1) reduced cost of PWS making it more of a tool than simply a mechanism to proc rapture and return mana. I agree with some people complaining about multi-disc groups suffering from weakened soul but not much we can do about that.
    (2) Reduced return from rapture, this was much needed, not saying the new numbers are perfect but we really needed a nerf to end the current design of having infinite mana. Ideally, in a perfectly tuned world you should be finishing each encounter with 0% mana not 100%.
    (3) Changes to PoH and divine aegis - I think these changes will discourage PoH spam. DA will now only proc from crits, this will increase the value of crit and crits will provide a significant "bonus" shield as opposed to the current garaunteed shield. I am not sure about our AoE throughput but if things are really out of tune the base healing value of PoH may need to be increased for disc.
    (4) Changes to Spirit Shell - Spirit shell will no longer benefit from mastery. However you need to keep in mind that SS will now benefit from crits and DA which will be a fair trade off and further devalue mastery relative to crit.
    (5) significant buff to penance and flash heal - nothing more to say always nice to have a buff and i believe these changes are intended to promote spell diversity.

    In conclusion, i think the changes are smart and much needed. Our mana regen will hopefully be more in line with the other healers and end our near-infinite mana. There has been a change to several spells that i believe will discourage PoH spam and mastery stacking, the stat value of crit will increase and promote usage of a larger variety of spells (specifically our signature spells, atonement, PW:shield, and penance). There is a lot of QQ and "the end of disc" discussion but at a first glance but all i see is a bunch of changes to bring us more in line with the other healers. The only thing we really need is a non-group based AoE heal, something like Circle of healing would be perfect to fill in an area of weakness in our spells.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Rivellana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manamontana View Post
    Their design goal with all healers is obvious: they do not want healers blanketing a raid without a drawback.

    The design goal makes it easier to design raid encounters, and I welcome it.

    You have Atonement which is a very strong source of healing. I think Atonement is actually better than the Mistweaver Eminence, Atonement is a 1.5 sec GCD vs a 2 sec GCD (1 for Jab, 1 for TP). I really do think you should wait for some empirical evidence. Guilds will be testing the PTR tonight, and if Discipline Priests are inline with Resto Druids (who I think need more buffs) then I'll agree there's an issue. If however a Disc Priest is tied, or slightly below, a MW then I see no issues with that considering the amount of utility a Disc Priest brings.
    I see your point. As I've previously stated, I went from priest to mistweaver and back again and judging from some recent groups I've done on both of them, if a disc priest has bubbles up and is atonement healing, it seems to be getting used first...nothing else gets through it, even mistweaver eminence.
    Quote Originally Posted by balrok69 View Post
    Blizzard must to remember: Lich king... "We don't want people spam just shields", so now you want the people spam a little right?
    I also agree with both of you...they don't want people blanketing. I just find it ironic that they didn't want discipline blanketing the raid so they took away the ability to do it, and now PW:S usage has dropped so much that they want us to use it more.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manamontana View Post
    Their design goal with all healers is obvious: they do not want healers blanketing a raid without a drawback. Let's look at some history:
    The design goal makes it easier to design raid encounters, and I welcome it.
    I agree with blanketing heals/absorbs not being a great mechanic - however, all healers atm have choices in aoe to fit the use of their spells around specific situations. Disc has 2 choices: poh on a party, regardless the fact that maybe only 3 ppl in a group took dmg, then 1 in another and 2 in another, and single target spells. I've head ppl talking about atonement as a raidheal: how can you consider a single target spell as a raidheal? Sure its stupid in gimick encounters, but we arent balanced around those. Every other healer has at least 2 aoe heals, and out of those, at least 1 is a smart heal. Disc has 0 aoe smart heals - cascade is not a smart heal, it will prefer a 95% person just because its further. They even had the spell at hand - holy nova, all it needed was a good original mechanic to differentiate it from coh.

    You have strong normal heals though? I previously mentioned PoH: it has the potential to push 80-100k hps, which is around 33-50%~ better than CH which can generate some 55-70k hps (depending on buffs, ES, RT etc). You have Atonement which is a very strong source of healing. I think Atonement is actually better than the Mistweaver Eminence, Atonement is a 1.5 sec GCD vs a 2 sec GCD (1 for Jab, 1 for TP). I really do think you should wait for some empirical evidence. Guilds will be testing the PTR tonight, and if Discipline Priests are inline with Resto Druids (who I think need more buffs) then I'll agree there's an issue. If however a Disc Priest is tied, or slightly below, a MW then I see no issues with that considering the amount of utility a Disc Priest brings.
    My poh, at my medium gear of almost 500 ilev is healing for 31 k per person. Assuming it will hit 5 ppl, thats a 155k heal, on a 2 sec cast, its 75k hps, not 100k. Is my gear too low? I dont know, do you think in the medium hc modes I'm doing 75k is enough, if I get a fully stacked raid to make my poh heal 5 ppl?

    Why do you think holy priests aren't pushing 100k hps usually? They have prayer of healing too, and unlike a non-DA disc poh, it benefits from chakra sanctuary and from mastery. Do you see holy priests destroying meters tho? PoH has the potential to do The current ptr iteration poh is basically an untalented spell. For disc, it gets no specific bonuses outside crits, and crit for us comes only from gear, like any other healer. No talent boosts it specifically for disc.

    As for atonement, I agree its a strong tool, but it's a lot stronger in 10 mans than in 25 mans, and 25 mans is what I play. Not considering gimick mechanics, its a 30-40k hit that heals for 40-50k. Sure I can rock meters in gimmick places, but what about normal ones? I dont especially want to be that broken toy in strange circumstances. And in a 25 man, its a drop in the ocean.

    Once again, I'm not complaining about the nerfs to absorbs, I think they are needed. I dont enjoy having other healers saying my absorbs win by default, and implying that without me "cheating" I wouldnt be worth a dime. I would actually enjoy winning fair and square. But I honestly dont think without absorbs disc has actual healing power. There is a reason why the specc was so shit starting mop: disc had absorbs then too. They just didnt shine until stupid amounts of predictable dmg as hof has, coupled with stupid buffs and gear scaling.

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