Compared to other healers (not only disc), it kinda is. Sure, not at the middle range, mostly at the top range, but they are weaker than other healers according to parses.What I said had nothing to do with Disc nor Disc nerfs (despite being in this thread) rather at the comments people saying that Holy is garbage.
Doesn't mean holy is unplayable or useless, its just weaker in comparison.
Last edited by Manamontana; 2013-01-18 at 07:33 PM.
Disc also reduces the amount of healing all other healers can output. My parses are on par or higher than other healing classes when we have no Disc priest. Disc is unbalancing everything.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111111 The sample number for holy is very low here as well... because most are Disc
Last edited by Mazi; 2013-01-18 at 07:44 PM.
It's there. Shamans have mana tide and Ancestral Fort and Bloodlust. Paladins have beacon, hands. Druids struggle too; Rebirth being made more available really hurt them. It's no coincidence Druids and Holy Priests are the least common healers right now.I fail to see the need?
No, Holy isnt garbage, it's just a) not as good as disc b) lacking utility and c) Chakra's limitations.It's a much more difficult spec to play due to mana restraints, but that doesn't mean it's garbage
Bacon is the thing pigs give you when you're good.
Spec strength != position on meters currently.
Nerfing disc does absolutely nothing in making another healer stronger. It may APPEAR that way on meters, but we all know that that is fairly irrelevant.
If anything, nerfing disc would hurt other healers ability to perform as they may be forced to use more inefficient heals to make up for discs newfound lack of throughput. Now if resto druids had a mechanic that straight up punished them for overhealing, like say for every HoT tick that overheals you lose additional mana, THEN you might have a point. But that'd be a dumb mechanic and it does not exist.
You claim resto druids will be buffed by discs nerfs -- this makes no sense. Druids may do less healing on a meter due to absorbs, but they won't magically become better healers when those shields are gone. Sure their meter numbers may go up some, but who cares if they are still weak? (This is sort of moot as they are getting a band-aid 10% flat buff). Plenty of 10man raids have no disc priest, and guess what, the weak classes are still weak.
If all you care about is healing meters, uncheck "include absorbs." A healer's job is not to put out the highest number possible on recount/skada/WoL. It's to keep his raid alive/help kill the boss.
2) It has had divine hymn since WoTLK.... when did it ever lack a raid CD?
3) Holy can sustain HPS very well actually with mastery stacking. Upwards of 100k HPS on some bosses when played right.
4) Priests have binding heal, PoM, CoH, hymnx2, some of the most consistant AOE healing abilites on top of mobility via feathers/body and soul/life grip, guardian spirit, Spirit of redemption... divine insight, power infusion.... hmmmmm..... You can't really think holy has only PoH...
5) Holy IS better then disc at RAW HPS. Disc has too much power in the absorb field, it's been noted by blizzard, players, and just about anyone. Holy competes perfectly FINE with any other healing class. Disc just makes fights EASIER FOR PROGRESSION PURPOSES.
No offense, but until DS, holy divine hymn had 8 mins cd and was worse hps than poh spam. It was cheaper tho. A raid cd that does less than your normal rotation?It has had divine hymn since WoTLK.... when did it ever lack a raid CD?
He was talking about utility. What you listed are a bunch of holy spells that disc has too (replace coh with penance, guardian spirit with pain supp and divine hymn with barrier). Yays for Spirit of Redemption .4) Priests have binding heal, PoM, CoH, hymnx2, some of the most consistant AOE healing abilites on top of mobility via feathers/body and soul/life grip, guardian spirit, Spirit of redemption... divine insight, power infusion.... hmmmmm..... You can't really think holy has only PoH...
If you guys are happy with where holy is, that's cool. I'm sure the good holy priests will always get a raid spot. I'm wondering how many of the mediocre ones will tho, when they wont have disc to fall back onto. You can argue as much as you want about holy numbers being fine, just lacking the mana and not much utility - the fact remains, that a oom healer is a useless healer.
Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-01-18 at 10:47 PM.
Utility is more then just raid cooldowns dude.
Mobility + how many targets you can heal with a single spell. Utility is having a bag of tools you can dip into for a VARIETY of situations and all can be 100% effective.
As far as divine hymn, it's always been a perfectly fine raid CD.... in WoTLK it came out as completley overpowered, then got nerfed but was still good. In cata, I used it as holy just as much as barrier as disc in heroic content..
The problem with holy, is people have NO Idea what they are doing when they play it...
I played my priest for 5 years. The class has never been bad, in fact, it has been the same for the last 5 years.
Healing is pretty much about the player. Of course some thigns can screw the class, but still, even a nerfed to the stone class can be carried up by the player. It's not like a DPS with no damage source or a tank with no thread, a healer is about placing green numbers.
In my opinion all changes in healers are always good, nerfs and buffs, it only gives fun to the player.
2) Divine Hymn used to suck. Then in 4.3 they put in the talent that shortened its duration and increased its healing by 100% for holy priests.
3) 100k HPS is doable by all classes in a fight with consistent damage. Just out of curiosity, apart from Tsulong can you name me a fight where it would be preferable to bring a holy priest over a mistweaver? I leave out disc for obvious reasons, leave out pallys due to their gimmicky 4pc pvp, leave out resto druids because they're even worse than holy priests, and leave out resto shammys because they're mostly just wanted for mana tide and healing rain-friendly fights.
4) Now you're just rambling and listing abilities. You start listing aoe healing abilities yet include hymn of hope, which isn't.
5) I don't know why you're comparing raw heals with disc. If you take out absorbs, all disc is left with is atonement healing and aegis-less PoH. What's the point of that?
Your point #1 shows you have no idea what you're on about in regards to holy, let me demonstrate you a bit with a very recent heroic garalon kill what an actually good holy priest is capable of: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=2706&e=3106.
1) Yes I do think holy regen is 100% fine. If you have low regen, then obviously stack more spirit gems.... 13k spirit raid buffed myself and I can perform perfectly fine as holy on ANY fight. And yes, I out perform our mistweaver AS HOLY on every single fight and he is a very good mistweaver.
2) Holy paladins also stack a ton of absorbs, so trying to compare a holy paladin to a holy priest is very, very pointless because the way they heal are 100% different.
3) You just proved my point, thank you. ANY class can do the same HPS. If you REALLY think holy cannot compete on heroic fights like empress/garalon you are completely mistaken and are probably a bad holy priest stacking haste and spamming too many AOE spells trying to snipe heals.
Mastery + smart casting = HPS + HIGH HPM
Haste + casting as many spells as possible trying to create HPS = HPS + LOW HPM
Low HPM meaning you will be OOM very quickly and have a lot of *downtime* trying to regen.
4) Rambling listing abilities proving a point about utility, and as a holy priest. They have some of the most powerful AOE healing abilities to create utility.
You point out i listed mana regen abilities, congrats. Do you know why? Fiend + Hope(possibly 2 hopes if you have a shadow priest) thats A LOT of regen.
On an average boss fight as holy, I can regen 200k-300k mana because I can time my cooldowns properly and regen a FULL mana pool as well as having higher HPS/HPM because of mastery.
5) WHy am I comparing raw heals with disc? To point out that they are vastly different, but if you are a GOOD holy priest, you know when to cast the proper heals to maximize your burst HPS during an AOE phase on a boss.
IE; Having serendipity up and being able to time the PoH HIT a split second after the aoe happens, not waiting for the aoe then casting it.
Or having some mastery already rolling on the players before the aoe and doing the same thing.
Having a fresh prayer of mending on someone, maybe even having a couple renews up and making sure CoH is off cooldown.
There are so many things to a holy priest, and in general ANY raw healing class that need to be taken into account before people start going "AMG LOW REGEN HALP WUT 2 DO PLZ?"
Learn to play a holy priest kid, then get back to me.
And becuse I know it's coming. Check my logs, please.. yea I play disc right now on progression fights because it simply makes things easier. That does not however mean I couldn't play holy and do the same thing. BEcause I guarantee I can.
I just don't get how they can nerf the throughput of our only AoE heal (other than PoM and lvl 90 talents) by about 50% and not give anything in return (so far)...
IMO they are attacking the wrong problem. They should go after spirit shell (more) instead.
They don't want us to be shield-bots? Well congratulations, cause with our terrible AOE throughput next patch, SS and barrier will be the only reasons to bring a disc priest into a raid.
Was DA stacking ever even a thing?
Also, yay for less mobility if you chose to take anything other than solace! (do we know yet if it heals or adds evangelism stacks?)
Last edited by Heap; 2013-01-19 at 02:50 AM.