Disc 5.2 Nerf Discussion

[Darkener]

So wouldn't it make even more sense for them to see how they're doing against other pure healing classes and leave disc out of it? Seriously, just turn off absorbs on recount and disc will be at the bottom and then all the other healers can feel like they've accomplished something. That way I don't have to re-learn my class every patch.

Well, this may actually be happening anyway since PWS on the PTR no longer shows up in combat logs. Not sure if that is a bug or intended, but it would certainly make Disc priests look much worse than they are. OH, and Spirit Shell is bugged so that it causes every spell cast during SS to increase the mana cost of Flash Heal by 8 million mana (or thereabouts). I was able to see the mana cost of my Flash Heal go up as high as 26 million mana.

So, just as an FYI to all Disc Priests, do not look at any Raid testing during the current PTR Build 16486 to be indicative of anything. Too many bugs atm. Even for PvP, the Inner Focus glyph going baseline isn't actually working either. It's kind of a useless build as far as Disc testing. But the Binding Heal glyph does work, and it really does cost a friggin ton to use. Spam it a few times and you're at 50% mana. If you are a glutton for painful PTR testing videos you can check mine out: http://youtu.be/AsGUDs16aUQ

[wrynil]

agreed I like this aswell. Passive Divine Aegis was good, but only because we were lacking a spell like Spirit Shell. With Spirit Shell its nice to see the 100% passive go from divine aegis (in terms of prayer of healing).

As 10man disc priest I like the other changes aswell.

[Deleted]

Why can't they keep disc exactly how they are, and all the other classes turn off absorbs on recount so they can feel like they're winning?

Really?

So right now you don't think Disc is OP?

To try and put this into another context.

If say Rogues where super OP and where 20% ahead of everyone else in DPS, the Rogues could say "well 20% of my damage is Melle attacks" just ignore them in Recount and then we are the same.

While I 100% agree the boss getting killed is what is important, under your logic it would be ok if disc could absorb 1mill dmg every 10 seconds but it does not matter because absorbs don't count.

Maybe try being a bit realistic about it?

[Skadovsk]

agreed I like this aswell. Passive Divine Aegis was good, but only because we were lacking a spell like Spirit Shell. With Spirit Shell its nice to see the 100% passive go from divine aegis (in terms of prayer of healing).

As 10man disc priest I like the other changes aswell.

That's the problem, it seems like it won't hurt 10 mans at all.
But I can't honestly think what I'm gonna do in 25 mans, atonement heal until ss comes back from CD?
PWS is gonna be more expensive overall, penance, binding don't really heal a lot of people, by the time I PoH ON 1 GROUP AND hopefully heal all the party members, any other healing spec is already healing all the entire raid. PoM and any 90 talent won't really fill the role of PoH with aegis.
So it looks like smite spam while filling a few other spells in between.
NOPE, whywouldIplaythat.jpg
Taking away the faceroll? More like taking away the fun, holy paladins will have more absorbs after 5.2 than the spec designed to pull absorbs out of its ass.

[Deleted]

I don't think that disc will be 'useless' in 10 man come 5.2 with the current changes, I think disc in it's current state will mean spamming 3 buttons (solace, penance and smite) for 95% of every fight which is way more boring than any dpsers rotation and really shitty design.

[Abitor]

I don't think that disc will be 'useless' in 10 man come 5.2 with the current changes, I think disc in it's current state will mean spamming 3 buttons (solace, penance and smite) for 95% of every fight which is way more boring than any dpsers rotation and really shitty design.

solace,penance,smite,poh,binding heal(glyphe),pw:s it's ok other healer don't use more spells imo.

[Deleted]

PoH will have 0 use outside of SS. Binding heal can barely be used with that mana cost. Every other healer is using way more spells than that (if you aren't you're doing it wrong), I'm using over 50 bindings as disc right now (I still will in 5.2, but I'll be able to do almost exactly the same healing without 90% of them). Spamming PoH constantly isn't very interesting (not that I'm doing that in 10 man atm, it's just one of my tools) but even that has more depth than atonement healing (0 thoughts about targetting/positioning, 0 thoughts about evengalism stacking, 0 thoughts about cd usage apart from PI).

My dislike is (mostly) not about the disc nerfs being too harsh (I do think that disc will be quite bad considering the emphasis most fights have had on aoe healing though, but on some fights the added atonement dps will be huge as well) but the fact that this patch promotes the most boring 'rotation' a spec has had since tbc.

[Deleted]

PWS has not been buffed by 40%. That is just a tooltip bug.

Fenixdown, you must be joking. The fights where disc is topping the meters by miles are fights with huge fat spikes and little in between (windlord bladelord), fights with low level ticking damage and occasional spikes and tank healing fights with occasional aoe spikes. Disc currently has slightly less throughput than the top aoe healers, but a massive amount of absorbs, so it is consistently 3-10%, above shamans, paladins and holy priests, but monks are still 5% ahead of disc. Nerf PoH by 30% and remove absorbs and you will see that disc will go down like a rock. It is a mathematical certainty.

Elegon is not an aoe fight except at the end and in that fight disc is mostly spamming atonement, because of the damage on boss. Disc will still be doing really well on elegon after the nerf, except the last phase its not worth casting anything except atonement anymore.

As for the rest take all those fights where disc is really OP and remove 80% of divine aegis (30% of disc healing), remove 40% of spirit shell ~(30-40% of disc healing) and buff atonement from penance by 20%, which every disc uses at least once every 10s for stacking evangelism or they are not at the top of the ranks for sure.

We don't need to see the fights, we can predict exactly how disc will be by just looking at the all the experience we had from the start of MoP. Think back at the start of MoP. Now your regen will feel the same as it did back then (which blizzard agreed was bad). This is because rapture will yield less mana than before, but you will gain more mana from the new solace than you did from mindbender. Your PoH will feel weaker, because although it is only slightly lower, it has no guaranteed absorb, spirit shell will be 20% weaker. Binding heal will be much stronger, but really expensive and you notice a significant but not very large increase on penance. Back then would you say that would have been enough to fix discipline? I dare say if you suggest that people would be laughing at you.

Now unless every new fight is a niche fight, disc is going to be the same as the start of MoP. Not a very good place to be.

What will most likely happen, is a few weeks after the patch hits, you will have a huge crowd complaining about how bad disc is and we will have another horrible hotfix.

People who say binding heal is not good are dead wrong. You will be using the glyphed version of this spell, because it is incredibly strong, despite the mana cost. If you are injured then binding heal is an absolute no brainer. It has better HPM than it does now and better HPS and even now its a good spell to use if you can. The only downside is if you glyph it you can't use it unless you have a 3rd target. It is much better HPS than PoH. PoM is also much better HPM than PoH, especially with the 2 set. Once you get the 4 set your order of prefered spells will be penance, followed by PoM and binding heal when the others are usable. You have absolutely nothing that you can use for a situation where you have contant hard raid-wide damage. In this situation you will not cast PoH, you will cast PWS,penance,PoM every10s and fill in with binding heal. PoH will be used with spirit shell and Inner focus. Even with that what will happen is if the damage is challenging for other healers, you will just watch the bars drop and feel powerless.

[Deleted]

Binding heal will be great after the patch, but it still has a freaking high mana cost while rapture gets raped, we won't be able to support high use of it (and it's still shit compared to the 'aoe' healing options of the other classes). PoM actually being good again is nice though (too bad that and cascade will be our only solid aoe healing, like you stated).

[HPLathus]

Binding will only be decent as a spot heal, don't forget they nerfed the healing it does significantly and its mana cost is through the roof. TBH unless theres another fight like gara it's going to be an extremely situational spell

[Skadovsk]

Binding will only be decent as a spot heal, don't forget they nerfed the healing it does significantly and its mana cost is through the roof. TBH unless theres another fight like gara it's going to be an extremely situational spell

No they didn't, the nerf was for shadow, disc and holy get the 40% passive, same with flash.

[Deleted]

Binding will only be decent as a spot heal, don't forget they nerfed the healing it does significantly and its mana cost is through the roof. TBH unless theres another fight like gara it's going to be an extremely situational spell

I am afraid as the poster below you explained BH was not nerfed at all. Binding heal has pretty insane HPS right now. With my ~ilvl 495 gear I can hit about 120k HPS with it with full raid buffs. In comparison PoH is like 90k.

As for mana regen BH currently is has better HPM than any single target heal. 35% increase in mana cost but a 50% increase in healing. Its HPM has gone up even though it was quite high already.

With my current gear and factoring in crit and aegis PoH hits for 250k, while BH hits for 190k. So PoH heals for 33% more and costs 39% less, so its HPM is roughly double that of binding heal. However binding heal has 25% more HPS than PoH, its much faster and its not party limited. When you are injured glyphed binding heal is now a no brainer, unless you have inner focus up.

The main problem is you need to be injured to do it.

[Rorschachs]

Just change the chakra mechanic so we can use be holy for almost every situation + make disc the worst spec to play in pve and I will be fine with it.

[HPLathus]

I am afraid as the poster below you explained BH was not nerfed at all. Binding heal has pretty insane HPS right now. With my ~ilvl 495 gear I can hit about 120k HPS with it with full raid buffs. In comparison PoH is like 90k.

As for mana regen BH currently is has better HPM than any single target heal. 35% increase in mana cost but a 50% increase in healing. Its HPM has gone up even though it was quite high already.

With my current gear and factoring in crit and aegis PoH hits for 250k, while BH hits for 190k. So PoH heals for 33% more and costs 39% less, so its HPM is roughly double that of binding heal. However binding heal has 25% more HPS than PoH, its much faster and its not party limited. When you are injured glyphed binding heal is now a no brainer, unless you have inner focus up.

The main problem is you need to be injured to do it.

Maybe I read another note, I thought after the glyph was added they nerfed binding heal alone... maybe it was just shadow?

[Mazi]

Maybe I read another note, I thought after the glyph was added they nerfed binding heal alone... maybe it was just shadow?

It was for Shadow. They also adjusted the +Flash Heal bonus for Holy/Disc to include BH

[Skadovsk]

Just change the chakra mechanic so we can use be holy for almost every situation + make disc the worst spec to play in pve and I will be fine with it.

Hur hur, nerf the spec I don't like, USHOLYPRIESTS XDDDDD

You're what is wrong with this community.

[Noradin]

Binding heal has pretty insane HPS right now. With my ~ilvl 495 gear I can hit about 120k HPS with it with full raid buffs. In comparison PoH is like 90k.

As for mana regen BH currently is has better HPM than any single target heal. 35% increase in mana cost but a 50% increase in healing. Its HPM has gone up even though it was quite high already.

Unless you actively seek to stand in fire all the time you won't really be able to use all that HpS and it will go down to 80k HpS. Its high HpS and HpM are situational. If you did not take damage yourself or if no one else took damage it is not the spell you should use. It will never be able to take the place of PoH or any other AoE heal.
And if we cannot effectively spam it, then it is ok for it to have better HpM/HpS than other, spammable spells, as it raises our overall HpS/HpM only slightly and that is what gets balanced among specs/classes.

[jairash]

Has anyone done the math to see if secondary stat prio will change?

[Deleted]

I haven't been that comprehensive but from my math/predicted spell usage (10 man) haste>crit>mastery will give the most output post patch. Haste does consume additional mana (unlike crit/mastery) though, so there'll need to be a balance between haste, crit and regen (stacking pure haste will just make us go oom in a minute).

[simland]

Still not rocket science. Buff Disc AOE reactive healing and nerf proactive.

You will see the meters balance out once more to the way they have always been. HOTs > Fast Heal > Smart Heal > Big Heal (Over Heal)

Or if you're new to the game:
1) Druids
2) Pallys
3) Shamans
4) Priests