1. #1

    [Guardian] savage defense uptime?

    hello people,

    I am one of the officers in my guild and we usually have 2 DK's tanking but since we had recruited some new tanks we decided have have them tank.
    they are a prot warrior and a Guardian druid, now our healers were complaining that our guardian was taking a massive amount of damage and was hard to keep up (especially on the Wind lord mel'jarak), i was looking around at other guardian druids (who were clearing heroics) and didn't really find that much of a difference between them, but i'm not that good with comparing logs unfortunately so i was wondering what is the average uptime of savage defense supposed to be?

    or is it someting else completely what is happening ?

    WoL link: reports/rt-pp1t8d5mjs9io9me/

    if you can help us out it would be greatly appreciated .

    (Can't post links unfortunatly sorry)

  2. #2
    i don't have a lot of time since i'm at work so i just checked wind lord.

    looking at his/her way to spend rage and there's something off.

    45maul
    8 SD
    7 FR

    VS my log for the same encounter,
    24 SD
    10fr
    11maul

    For the first part of the fight, maul is not that important since its not the size of the hit we are getting hardly matter over the number of strikes we can dodge.

  3. #3




    I'm by no means an expert in bear tanking, but by looking at their logs and some logs of other bear tanks (along with a little bit of bear tanking knowledge) it seems like their SD uptime is quite low indeed. I haven't looked at their armory or looked into it much ( I'll leave that for better minds).

    Logs of other bear tanks for Windlord have their SD uptime around 60% or so, and his was around 22%. But like I said I'll leave the real number crunching to people with more knowledge than I.

  4. #4
    Her Savage Defense uptime is atrocious. For some reason she's dumping Rage into T&C instead.

    She used it 17 times in 457 seconds. On our last kill I used it 31 times in 388 seconds. She only had 2 more Mauls than I did, but 9 more FRs.

    Her total Rage gain: 3404 (approx)
    Total Rage used (Max): 2910

    So there's 500 Rage going to waste somewhere, and she's not using Savage Defense.

    Wat?

  5. #5
    I think I'm navigating to the wrong guardian because mine is saying they had an SD uptime of 3.3%....

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Your tank is using maul WAY too much. For good measures you should make him/her take it off his action bars for the next raid so (s)he is forced to dump rage with Savage defense or Frenzied Regen.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Notamonk View Post
    Your tank is using maul WAY too much. For good measures you should make him/her take it off his action bars for the next raid so (s)he is forced to dump rage with Savage defense or Frenzied Regen.

    I would not do that, T&C via maul is a pretty powerful tool now. She just need to learn to prioritize the right spell at the right time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahvanar View Post
    I would not do that, T&C via maul is a pretty powerful tool now. She just need to learn to prioritize the right spell at the right time.
    Well SD and FR are both plain better. It's not that T&C is "bad" or anything, but people just need to learn to use it correctly.

    Windlord is not a fight where you should be using it. At least not until the adds are all dead on normal.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Well SD and FR are both plain better. It's not that T&C is "bad" or anything, but people just need to learn to use it correctly.

    Windlord is not a fight where you should be using it. At least not until the adds are all dead on normal.

    hehe yeah, thats what i meant, i was trying to explain not to take maul out of their bar. i realized i poorly choose my words. thanks for the clarification!

  10. #10
    thanks for all the feedback people
    i'll talk to him and and hopefully he'll improve

    also if people have more feedback about it please feel free to post it

  11. #11
    As a Bear, I'll use Maul when I'm not the current target of the boss, or am dealing with trash. Just because the button lights up from Blizzard's end doesn't mean you need to hit the button. A dead bear can neither tank nor add DPS to the fight.

    Also, Karnudge, you need to look at specific fights, not just the overall, as that's from beginning of raid to end, downtime, bio breaks, and all.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Well SD and FR are both plain better.
    Curious as to why you think why FR is better than T&C. As long as the boss is hitting for high enough autoattacks that you're not wasting any of your T&C, FR heals for the same hp/rage as T&C prevents, and prevented damage is almost always superior to healed damage, plus you get the extra dps of maul.

  13. #13
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    Assuming at least 100k vengeance FR heals up a full boss hit, T & C can mitigate only a part of the hit.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Motoma View Post
    Assuming at least 100k vengeance FR heals up a full boss hit, T & C can mitigate only a part of the hit.
    So it's a question of scale?

    Scenario A: boss hits for 200k, you 60 rage FR for 200k.
    Scenario B: you T&C, boss hits for 100k, you use your remaining 30 rage to heal for 100k.

    Differences: In scenario A, your health takes a bigger dip. In scenario B, you do more damage. How does this not favor T&C in the vast majority of cases?

  15. #15
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    It's not really a question of maths, it merely works better in the real world from my experience. In some situations T & C would be a better choice however the more vengeance you have the better FR gets.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Motoma View Post
    It's not really a question of maths, it merely works better in the real world from my experience. In some situations T & C would be a better choice however the more vengeance you have the better FR gets.
    The formula for damage prevented by T&C is exactly half as much as FR heals, both scaling at the same rate with vengeance.

  17. #17
    Curious as to why you think why FR is better than T&C. As long as the boss is hitting for high enough autoattacks that you're not wasting any of your T&C, FR heals for the same hp/rage as T&C prevents, and prevented damage is almost always superior to healed damage, plus you get the extra dps of maul.
    There are going to be 6 targets attacking you until they're all dead. T&C can only hit one of those. In the context of Windlord T&C is a bad idea until all the adds are dead.

    Scenario A: boss hits for 200k, you 60 rage FR for 200k.
    Irrelevant in the context of Windlord, which is what the OP's question was about. He doesn't hit that hard on normal.

    The formula for damage prevented by T&C is exactly half as much as FR heals, both scaling at the same rate with vengeance.
    True. However again, in the context of this specific encounter it's not relevant until all the adds are dead. The amount of damage you can heal via FR exceeds the amount of damage you can prevent from any one single target.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motoma View Post
    Assuming at least 100k vengeance FR heals up a full boss hit, T & C can mitigate only a part of the hit.
    T&C costs half the amount of rage as FR. Lets say that you already have SD on cooldown, so you have 2 choices- FR, Maul. Me, personally, i would be using T&C whenever its up, and excess rage goes to FR. TC also scales with AP, about half as well as FR (I.E TC will absorb slightly under half the damage that FR would heal at 60 rage, so its essentially same rage per mitigation usage, except TC absorbs.)

    But yea, that bear, WAY too little SD usage. For Wind Lord, ALL phases, should be using SD whenever its up, or aiming for the max 66% uptime.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  19. #19
    Yeah, the way you mentioned it, Arielle, it sounded like it was a categorical statement that T&C was worse than the other two. I'm sure there are times to use T&C during Windlord before phase 2, but yeah, more or less irrelevant on normal mode.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    Yeah, the way you mentioned it, Arielle, it sounded like it was a categorical statement that T&C was worse than the other two. I'm sure there are times to use T&C during Windlord before phase 2, but yeah, more or less irrelevant on normal mode.
    You can totally use it once the Blademasters are dead, but they tend to be the last ones to die since they don't do anything particuarly dangerous or annoying.

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