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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
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    Taste for blood further nerf?

    So this is on the front page
    Taste for Blood has been redesigned. It now causes the Warrior to gain 2 stacks of Overpower (maximum of 5 stacks) when Mortal Strike deals damage, 1 stack when the target dodges, and no longer interacts with Heroic Strike. It now requires level 20 (was level 50). What the heck? Is getting 100% more from haste stuff gonna be enough to compensate for it not increasing heroic strikes damage?

  2. #2
    it has been that way for 5.2 for like 2-3 weeks

  3. #3
    This isn't news, it's been known for a while now, first off. This will be a nerf to pvp burst but should be a modest gain to sustained. Remember that Overpower has a 60% increased chance to crit, so you'll have regular large crits between rage dumps like slam and Hstrike.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    This isn't news, it's been known for a while now, first off. This will be a nerf to pvp burst but should be a modest gain to sustained. Remember that Overpower has a 60% increased chance to crit, so you'll have regular large crits between rage dumps like slam and Hstrike.
    The way it had always been worded to me made it seem like it was going to have its current effect AND give you two over powers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Flalia4 View Post
    The way it had always been worded to me made it seem like it was going to have its current effect AND give you two over powers.
    Ah, I see. Well that's not the case. they are also buffing Slam to 220% weapon damage from 190%. Like I said, it's a very minor nerf to burst and a minor buff to sustained.

  6. #6
    The increase in haste might make it overall a probably minor buff. I am not really sure that the tfb "fix" and slam damage increase are a buff per se as they also put a rage cost on overpower.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    The increase in haste might make it overall a probably minor buff. I am not really sure that the tfb "fix" and slam damage increase are a buff per se as they also put a rage cost on overpower.
    Personally I liked the old TFB it made arms feel different from fury. Im worried these changes will make the specs feel very samey.

  8. #8
    This is a terrible change. Putting a sizable Rage cost on Overpower severely reduces our damage done, especially in Execute phase where free Overpowers meant you were actually doing something while waiting for 30 Rage to Execute.

    The DPR of OP+HS is still better than Slam. We may be using less of those because of the 10 Rage cost on OP but we're still going to do those more than we use Slam.

    The Haste and Mastery buffs are good, it will increase our scaling.

    What we need to fix :

    ->Remove Rage cost of Overpower OR reduce it to 5 Rage and remove it's Rage cost when target is below 20% health.
    ->Reduce Slam's rage cost to 20 to make it's DPR a whole lot better than OP+HS. As it currently stands,

    OP+HS=210+110=320%/40=8
    Slam = 220/30=7.3

    Even if we were to take the additional damage into account, it's not a whole lot different.

    I think these changes, should at the very least help us out to maintain a fluid rotation and get the changes that we need. Also, the Overpower glyph needs to be changed somewhat.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    This is a terrible change. Putting a sizable Rage cost on Overpower severely reduces our damage done, especially in Execute phase where free Overpowers meant you were actually doing something while waiting for 30 Rage to Execute.

    The DPR of OP+HS is still better than Slam. We may be using less of those because of the 10 Rage cost on OP but we're still going to do those more than we use Slam.

    The Haste and Mastery buffs are good, it will increase our scaling.

    What we need to fix :

    ->Remove Rage cost of Overpower OR reduce it to 5 Rage and remove it's Rage cost when target is below 20% health.
    ->Reduce Slam's rage cost to 20 to make it's DPR a whole lot better than OP+HS. As it currently stands,

    OP+HS=210+110=320%/40=8
    Slam = 220/30=7.3

    Even if we were to take the additional damage into account, it's not a whole lot different.

    I think these changes, should at the very least help us out to maintain a fluid rotation and get the changes that we need. Also, the Overpower glyph needs to be changed somewhat.
    Yes haste and mastery scaling will be increased. But dont forget that crit scaling will be much worse, since Overpower/Mastery Proc will be a much higher part of our dps and dont benefit from additional crit. This actually results in crit becoming increasingly worse when aquiring more mastery rating.

    A much better longterm solution to buff mastery would have been mastery proc remaining at 55% but being able to crit once again.

    Right now i see it that Arms DPS might actually be buffed in 5.2 (depends on how blizzard adjusts the abilities), but the mechanics of the whole spec will make it scale even worse than now...

  10. #10
    Brewmaster willtron's Avatar
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    I interpreted it as 5.0.5 TfB but using Overpower instead of HS
    Velcro. What a rip off.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    What we need to fix :

    ->Remove Rage cost of Overpower OR reduce it to 5 Rage and remove it's Rage cost when target is below 20% health.
    ->Reduce Slam's rage cost to 20 to make it's DPR a whole lot better than OP+HS. As it currently stands,

    OP+HS=210+110=320%/40=8
    Slam = 220/30=7.3
    Well we know why they put a rage cost on op now and personally I find a meaningful rage cost on op is the right design choice. Not changing its damage though accordingly nor really doing something with slam though seems just stupid.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Well we know why they put a rage cost on op now and personally I find a meaningful rage cost on op is the right design choice. Not changing its damage though accordingly nor really doing something with slam though seems just stupid.
    Increasing the damage of Overpower could balance our damage done pre-execute, but it isn't particularly the answer considering that the design intent for Execute was that it was supposed to be used as much as possible considering the amount of damage it deals.

    Increasing the damage of Slam to fix the DPR priority over OP+HS is necessary. Decreasing it's rage cost is also a good alternative. Personally, I'd rather have a decreased Rage cost on Slam, because it lets us fill every GCD as much as we can.

    I find GC's comments regarding this change a bit disturbing. He seems to indicate that because of Sudden Death, we should be able to fill that GCD with a rage-free CS everytime we don't have rage to use Slam, which is ridiculous considering the low proc chance and the mechanic of autoattacks, and also that we must use CS to fill GCDs when we don't have rage rather than to use it as much as possible to maximize DPS.

    The Haste buff isn't really going to cut it. Doubling the Haste isn't really going to provide a significant boost in rage generation, because it doesn't increase the rage obtained from Mortal Strike. It increases the rage from CS enrages by a minute amount because it's RNG on RNG(More Haste leads to more procs leads to more chances of Enrage, RNG1*RNG2*RNG3)

    I have better solutions for the problem of Warriors sitting in Def stance in PvP :

    Put a stance restriction on Overpower, make it usable only in Battle and Berserker Stance

    That should effectively make us do very little damage in Def stance, and putting Overpower back on a zero rage cost will help PvE immensely.

    Fixing the DPR of Slam vs OP+HS is pretty damn easy. All you need to do is either reduce the Rage cost of Slam, or increase it's damage dealt, or increase HS's rage cost and have DC provide a greater benefit to bring it back to existing levels.

    Hope people can actually put forth these suggestions in the PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues thread, since I don't have a US Account.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    I have better solutions for the problem of Warriors sitting in Def stance in PvP :

    Put a stance restriction on Overpower, make it usable only in Battle and Berserker Stance
    While that certainly is a solution obviously it would be another very huge nerf which I think there have been plenty off. Decreasing rage cost though on slam wouldn't hurt.

  14. #14
    I just dont understand the development of arms and fury in 5.2. As far as I know blizzard wanted to buff arms and leave fury the way it is. But with the Bloodsurge change and the haste change (affecting all warrior speccs) Fury is still very much ahead of Arms. Especially considering the addition of 10 rage Overpower.

    Even with the mastery and slam buffs in mind, I just dont think arms is gonna cut it and I will stay fury even with 5.2.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire
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    So far Blizzard has been nerfing even the sustained on Arms before and I'm not sure if Mastery and haste buffs are going to be any buffs tbh. Probably more like a compensation for the lost dps before recent ptr changes so you won't lose +5k dps from the 5.1.

    Although I can't understand why they can't make Slam hit more similar to Frost DK's obliterate. Not like you can spam it in the current form anyway, so indeed of having an attack with weaker DPR/DPS than OP+HS combined doesn't really cut it. With the "quality of life buff" on Fury it makes it even easier to decide what to play on next tier.

    Edit: Just logged to test PTR how it works. On live my Arms warrior can do around 90k sustained dps. TG fury a bit higher, closer to 100k.
    I know the added latency to PTR does scew the numbers for me, but now I was doing around 75k dps with same gear... Have to test it again later, but doesn't feel good. Leap nerf alone hits quite alot, and mastery "buff" doesn't show anywhere. I did manage to hit slam 2 times on 20 million damage test though without straining me to 0 rage, so if you don't use HS at all and get bad procs, you can still hit slam np.
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-01-17 at 05:03 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    So far Blizzard has been nerfing even the sustained on Arms before and I'm not sure if Mastery and haste buffs are going to be any buffs tbh. Probably more like a compensation for the lost dps before recent ptr changes so you won't lose +5k dps from the 5.1.

    Although I can't understand why they can't make Slam hit more similar to Frost DK's obliterate. Not like you can spam it in the current form anyway, so indeed of having an attack with weaker DPR/DPS than OP+HS combined doesn't really cut it. With the "quality of life buff" on Fury it makes it even easier to decide what to play on next tier.

    Edit: Just logged to test PTR how it works. On live my Arms warrior can do around 90k sustained dps. TG fury a bit higher, closer to 100k.
    I know the added latency to PTR does scew the numbers for me, but now I was doing around 75k dps with same gear... Have to test it again later, but doesn't feel good. Leap nerf alone hits quite alot, and mastery "buff" doesn't show anywhere. I did manage to hit slam 2 times on 20 million damage test though without straining me to 0 rage, so if you don't use HS at all and get bad procs, you can still hit slam np.
    Yeah. Thats what I though aswell. At least I can now roll on tanks 1 handed weapons without having a bad conscience.

  17. #17
    High Overlord Randytravis's Avatar
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    Surely with these changes make HS now pointless for arms. For a rage dump you would just use slam? Perhaps only when u completely full of rage as HS is off GCD, but still. I perosnally enjoyed the variation with the od HS from TFB procs in the rotation. Even as it is now with 1 stack max in PvP i think it feels nice to play.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    So far Blizzard has been nerfing even the sustained on Arms before and I'm not sure if Mastery and haste buffs are going to be any buffs tbh. Probably more like a compensation for the lost dps before recent ptr changes so you won't lose +5k dps from the 5.1.

    Although I can't understand why they can't make Slam hit more similar to Frost DK's obliterate. Not like you can spam it in the current form anyway, so indeed of having an attack with weaker DPR/DPS than OP+HS combined doesn't really cut it. With the "quality of life buff" on Fury it makes it even easier to decide what to play on next tier.
    Because they can't heavily buff a spec that is causing the most qq. Just not going to happen.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Because they can't heavily buff a spec that is causing the most qq. Just not going to happen.
    PvE is also a part of the game and blizzard cant manage to nerf pvp and buff pve? If you havent noticed arms is one of the worst dps speccs in the game right now. Leaving you no choice but to go fury. Arms may be very strong in PvP, but thats no reason to leave them as shitty as they are in PvE right now.

  20. #20
    I hope something changes. Arms is actually going to be worse in 5.2 than what it is on live now, which I didn't think was possible.

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