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  1. #1
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    State of Mages [5.2]

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    • The Mage 2T15 bonus does favor taking Invocation, as people quickly pointed out, and we’re considering revising it.
    • The Arcane Mage 4T15 bonus is a multiplier on all of the effects of Arcane Charges. Damage, mana cost, and number of additional targets hit.
    • The Fire Mage 4T15 bonus is before Critical Mass. Net increase to your Pyroblast’s crit rate will be +6.5%.
    • This build included a new version of Blazing Speed. We changed it from the previous build because we thought that it was too strong. This is definitely something we’re still iterating on for 5.2. The new version replaces Blink, but goes farther than Blink (and distance is variable instead of fixed), does not cost a GCD, and provides brief stun and root immunity, and is on a different spell school. Feedback from playing with it is very helpful. We realize that there is somewhat of a conflict here with the PvP Glove bonus, and will resolve that if needed.
    *• Another talent we’re iterating on is Invocation; it’s quite possible that the current version is overpowered, but we’d like people to try it out, and give us feedback about how you use it, especially as Arcane.
    The Arcane 4T15 is very interesting. Curious why the fuck the Mana cost is being increased. That almost seems more like a nerf instead of a buff, IMO, especially since 20% of 75% (15% increase) is much higher than 20% of 25% (5% increase).

    They thought Blazing Speed was too strong?! LOL. Are you kidding me? Then why was Ice Barrier nerfed and why does no one still pick Blazing Speed??? Why did no one pick the previous build's Blazing Speed? Why will no one pick this Blazing Speed? One answer: BLAZING. SPEED. SUCKS.

    Edit: * Willing to bet Invo gets nerfed mana-wise purely because of Arcane, and both Fire and Frost will suffer greatly from it. Calling it here and now.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-01-11 at 01:59 PM.

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  2. #2
    "Number of additional targets hit"
    This is still functionally useless because you aren't going to use Barrage for AOE damage but at least it will look pretty.

    I like set bonuses that change the rotation rather than just passively adding damage but increasing mana cost seems a weird way to go about that, especially as it does no such thing for the other two specs.
    Blizzard's had a strange Arcane fixation this expansion. Why does everything need to effect that one spec more than the other two?

  3. #3
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    "Number of additional targets hit"
    This is still functionally useless because you aren't going to use Barrage for AOE damage but at least it will look pretty.

    I like set bonuses that change the rotation rather than just passively adding damage but increasing mana cost seems a weird way to go about that, especially as it does no such thing for the other two specs.
    Blizzard's had a strange Arcane fixation this expansion. Why does everything need to effect that one spec more than the other two?
    Yeah, the set bonuses aren't too nice for Frost/Fire. It's okay for Frost, but all it does is reduce RNG a tiny bit. Fire's is bullshit. 6.5% more crit (after CM) doesn't really do all that much that it COULD be doing.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post


    They thought Blazing Speed was too strong?! LOL. Are you kidding me? Then why was Ice Barrier nerfed and why does no one still pick Blazing Speed???
    I would really like to have the weed they are smoking, Like I think he meant the previous iteration of it being just on a 25 sec cd with use whenever, but I still wouldnt pick that over IB..

    I really don't know, I was looking forward for 5.2 with everything outside of the BS sharing with blink change, but now I fear that the direction they wanna take my class is such that I wont be playing come 5.2.. But guess thats what PTR is for, its such a shame that the majority of forums posters are going unheard atm. PvP glove bonus rofl..

  5. #5
    Using AB for aoe purposes will become more common especially to drop stacks of charges which seems like that is what Blizz is leaning more towards with the incoming changes

  6. #6
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlorilSpinebreaker View Post
    Using AB for aoe purposes will become more common especially to drop stacks of charges which seems like that is what Blizz is leaning more towards with the incoming changes
    ABarr*? AB = Arcane Blast.

    Also, what fight really requires heavy AoE that isn't 3-5 targets? (Elegon is the only one I know of)

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Also, what fight really requires heavy AoE that isn't 3-5 targets? (Elegon is the only one I know of)
    Wind Lord maybe?

  8. #8
    Not even a mention of RoP? Why am I even bothering?

    Oh, and I laughed pretty hard at reading "Blazing Speed was too strong"

    Oh, is that why no one picked it up?

  9. #9
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janir View Post
    Wind Lord maybe?
    Methinks you'd do more DPS single targeting adds down than cleaving to them, wasting AC stacks. On Heroic, that definitely holds a lot more true as you'll want to just burst him down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    Not even a mention of RoP? Why am I even bothering?

    Oh, and I laughed pretty hard at reading "Blazing Speed was too strong"

    Oh, is that why no one picked it up?
    Nor IW which he said was an issue.

    Pretty much. "BLAZING SPEED WAS TOO STRONG, EVEN THOUGH NO ONE PICKED IT, SO WE NERFED ICE BARRIER AND BS TO THE GROUND". Blizzard's logic.

    Actually, I've noticed a pattern. Whenever simple logic can be applied perfectly to Mages, Blizzard uses "Blizzard Logic" to try and solve a problem. Frost Bomb and Spellsteal are too strong? Nerf 9 things and make Spellsteal nearly unusable in PvE as well. Scorch costs too little for Arcane? Make it cost 10k mana so it hinders Frost/Fire Mages using Invocation even worse.

    Seriously, it's like they INTENTIONALLY go full retard when it comes to Mages.

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  10. #10
    I'm still amazed at the complete ignorance for Fire, sure that increased critical strike for Pyroblast is really nice but you have to get a Hot Streak in the first place, still waiting for that fix in the patch notes GC...

  11. #11
    Too bad he doesn't address Fire at all, or generally there are no real changes to it.

    Its one of the worst Singletarget-Spec of all classes right now. Even on fights were it should be ok because its the only spec that allows lots of movement, you will get destroyed by warlocks and hunters. Ironically it also has the worst AoE of all mage specs and basically all classes
    The only fight where fire > arcane/frost is Windlord right now and thats just because you can spread the 600% DMG Combustions which isnt possible on other fights because of new cleave mechanics.

    They should at least give fire back its aoe-power! Why not give firemages something like the new Bladeflurry? "Firestorm": When activated your fireball and pyroblast spells hit 4 additional nearby Targets for 35% of your DMG caused, but Manacosts are increased by 50%.

    With combustion being nerfed so heavy why not take away its target-restiction and let it spread to at least 10 targets again?

    Flamestrike and Dragons Breath... both are signature spells for Firemages, but they are just very weak! Why not make Dragons Breath interesting with a new mechanic? "Damage increased by 40% for every target hit, up to a maximum of 400%"... so when you use it singletarget in PvP it will still only hit for something like 10k (it doesnt even do so much dmg), but when you AoE you get a skill with good AE-Burst as it will hit for 50k against 10 targets.
    Same could be done with flamestrike, or at least just buff its DoT-DPS and make it instant for firemages.

    Right now we are forced to play arcane but honestly after having played it on about 13 of 16 Heroic-Bosses the spec just doesn't feel "right"... on fights like empress or protectors of the endless where you can just stand there and pump out ABs/AMs it feels like its doing too much DMG, on fights with lots of movement its very annoying and clunky to play arcane, but its still better DPS than fire It also sucks that you have nearly no real burst at all.

    I wish they could make frost right as its fun to play and quite a good allround-spec... but because of fucking PvP they are just not able to balance it for PvE

    Blizzard should nerf arcane a bit (but not too much), to make it our #1 singletarget-patchwerk spec. But they should bring back fire in line so we can at least play it on movement-and aoe-fights.

    Or i should just reroll Warlock with affliction being #1 on every fight, no matter if its movement, aoe, patchwerk or whatever.

  12. #12
    "*• Another talent we’re iterating on is Invocation; it’s quite possible that the current version is overpowered, but we’d like people to try it out, and give us feedback about how you use it, especially as Arcane."

    It is clear what Blizzard says here. If Arcane Mages find the way to keep playing with Arcane charge camping like it is played now and Invocation helps them to do that, they will change it.
    T15 4 set bonus is not bad for fire imo. In my current Item level(496) I have 33,75% critical with all raid buffs/flask/food. That is 43,87% with the multiplier. I bet that with the stats in T15 gear the critical from gear will be much higher. So with the +5% in Pyroblast you may end up having a very nice 55-60% chance to crit with Pyroblast and this is without the Trinkets/enchant procs. That is a lot of Pyroblast crits and a very powerful ignite.... do not underestimate the power of Fire!

  13. #13
    The Mage 2T15 bonus does favor taking Invocation, as people quickly pointed out, and we’re considering revising it.

    Can someone point it out why? I'm missing something here, can't find out what.

  14. #14
    So without this "bonus" we'll have about 50-55% chance to crit, isn't it nice too? (Btw like blue post say, it's 6.5% not 5%) For me crit is always fake stat. U can have like 70% chance to crit and no crit at all. Even before 5.1 patch nerf, few times I hadn't got any crit during whole pre potion, trinkets etc.
    Btw I wouldnt be very suprised if they have nerfed CM again after t15 and all new gear.

    I've been playing fire because it was best specc at the beginning and guild make me to choose it. Not very fun to play for me but it had been donig good dmg and with some luck gr8. After 5.1 patch, I was too lazy to reforge, regem (skipping that my whole gear is for fire) and I was keep playing it. But after I saw this "bonus" from 4pc i'm respecing right now. I'm done.

    PS it's all my opinions so in case don't be offended

    Quote Originally Posted by frostburnshoes View Post
    The Mage 2T15 bonus does favor taking Invocation, as people quickly pointed out, and we’re considering revising it.

    Can someone point it out why? I'm missing something here, can't find out what.
    I guess, the faster u can cast Invo, the better...I'm too stupid to make any math to prove this, but I think that it would be gr8 to start channeling at last sec of haste buff. Additionally other 90lvl talents get nothing.
    Last edited by Tryt; 2013-01-11 at 11:56 AM.

  15. #15
    So without this "bonus" we'll have about 50-55% chance to crit, isn't it nice too? (Btw like blue post say, it's 6.5% not 5%) For me crit is always fake stat. U can have like 70% chance to crit and no crit at all. Even before 5.1 patch nerf, few times I hadn't got any crit during whole pre potion, trinkets etc.
    Btw I wouldnt be very suprised if they have nerfed CM again after t15 and all new gear.

    I was hoping that maybe they give x% more ignite converted to combustion dot or something like that...silly me

    I've been playing fire because it was best specc at the beginning and guild make me to choose it. Not very fun to play for me but it had been donig good dmg and with some luck gr8. After 5.1 patch, I was too lazy to reforge, regem (skipping that my whole gear is for fire) and I was keep playing it. But after I saw this "bonus" from 4pc i'm respecing right now. I'm done.

    PS it's all my opinions so in case don't be offended

  16. #16
    So, would it actually be a good idea to try Fire again?
    I did some testing and i would have at least 50% crit raidbuffed with the multiplier or is it a waste of time, gold and possible damage done? :P

  17. #17
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostburnshoes View Post
    The Mage 2T15 bonus does favor taking Invocation, as people quickly pointed out, and we’re considering revising it.

    Can someone point it out why? I'm missing something here, can't find out what.
    Haste makes Invo better. New Invo isn't affected as much by Haste though, so I'm not sure why he really pointed that out. Putting down RoP takes a cast time, too, not to mention more haste = more MP5, which is something that one cares about if they pick RoP.

    To fix IW, they should decrease the cooldown of it based on your Haste. Then all 3 benefit greatly from Haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by lillbrorsan View Post
    So, would it actually be a good idea to try Fire again?
    I did some testing and i would have at least 50% crit raidbuffed with the multiplier or is it a waste of time, gold and possible damage done? :P
    Total waste of time. Fire needs tweaking to be better or INSANE amounts of crit. I remember post-nerf (1.25 CM), I got 8 pyroblasts on an Alter Time/PoM Combustion (so a lot of crits) and all I did was ~25k a second. Pre-nerf, that would have done around 60-70k a second. I was so furious.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 09:07 AM ----------

    So basically, we have GC admitting that Haste is only good for Invo when IW and RoP get increased MP5 from it, admitting Blazing Speed (in any form) is too powerful, so they created this AWFUL new version that replaces Blink, Invocation in it's PTR form is too powerful and its mana will probably be nerfed, RUINING Fire/Frost completely, and a tier bonus that nerfs Arcane more than it buffs it.

    Why exactly is this dev team (assuming they all worked together on this) still working in the industry? It 100%, undeniably, PROVES that they have no idea what the Mage class is anymore. They think this is "fun" when most Mages are not, actually, having fun, suffering the worst QoL issues over any other class atm, have a broken specc (Fire) that their lead dev continues to argue is perfectly fine, and they can't even get the L90 talents right, which were horribly designed to begin with. Not to mention, too many core mechanics exist for all 3 Mage speccs, the biggest one being the L90 talents, all of which deal with MANA. This means it's directly tied to Arcane's Mastery, and each one scales it differently. If one is too OP, then they nerf it, causing a backlash towards Fire/Frost, WHICH SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH MANA. IF WE WANTED TO DEAL WITH MANA, WE'D PLAY ARCANE OR A HEALER.

    FFS, hire a new face and see if they can do something for us Mages. That entire Blizz Quote is just seriously making you devs look like monkies flinging shit across the room at pictures of Mages and seeing which poo-pile sticks.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-01-11 at 02:15 PM.

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  19. #19
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    So basically, we have GC admitting that Haste is only good for Invo when IW and RoP get increased MP5 from it, admitting Blazing Speed (in any form) is too powerful, so they created this AWFUL new version that replaces Blink, Invocation in it's PTR form is too powerful and its mana will probably be nerfed, RUINING Fire/Frost completely, and a tier bonus that nerfs Arcane more than it buffs it.

    Why exactly is this dev team (assuming they all worked together on this) still working in the industry? It 100%, undeniably, PROVES that they have no idea what the Mage class is anymore. They think this is "fun" when most Mages are not, actually, having fun, suffering the worst QoL issues over any other class atm, have a broken specc (Fire) that their lead dev continues to argue is perfectly fine, and they can't even get the L90 talents right, which were horribly designed to begin with. Not to mention, too many core mechanics exist for all 3 Mage speccs, the biggest one being the L90 talents, all of which deal with MANA. This means it's directly tied to Arcane's Mastery, and each one scales it differently. If one is too OP, then they nerf it, causing a backlash towards Fire/Frost, WHICH SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH MANA. IF WE WANTED TO DEAL WITH MANA, WE'D PLAY ARCANE OR A HEALER.
    Agreed, on all points, but the PTR has been out for a week or so. There is still time to go in there and provide feedback about the class. If there's enough of us, chances are our words will get through to those blizzard blockheads.
    Seriously, did they even try fire and frost? Because all the focus goes to arcane at the moment. Why is arcane so freaking special? I want to play what I like ( frost ) not what you want me to play.

  20. #20
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurdiStorm View Post
    Agreed, on all points, but the PTR has been out for a week or so. There is still time to go in there and provide feedback about the class.
    "Beta has only been out for a month. Plenty of time for change" (Change comes for the worse with our L90 talents)
    "5.1 PTR has only been out for a week. Plenty of time for change" (Yeah, 3 days later, Fire gets a knee-jerked mega nerf)
    "5.2 PTR has only been out for a week or so. Plenty of time to change" (Do you see the pattern here?)

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