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  1. #481
    This thread should be close the title is misleading because OP has a wrong definition on the word legendary and there is no discussion in here what so ever.

  2. #482
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Before I answer you, why should legendary items be easy to obtain, and something that everyone should have? Whats your arguement in favor of having them this way? Other than the age old "I pay $15 / 13 Euro a month, i deserve everything else that the players that spend hours achieving as well with much less effort and dedication!"
    Why should they be easy?
    I cannot answer that question without comparing it to another legendary.

    Random.org gave 4, so I will go with the Glaives from Illidan as they were the fourth legendary weapon(set) in WoW.
    So what was hard in obtaining the Glaives?
    The answer to that is easy: Nothing.
    Getting the Glaives required no effort whatsoever besides having a high attendancy.
    As a guild you do what you were doing anyway and the player that would get them, would just have to be there.
    So was the Black Temple hard?
    Reliquary required a lot of dps, Mother needed people to farm S-res gear and the Council and Illidan had some pretty tough tactics.
    But that point is irrelevant as guilds would do that anyway.
    What we learn from this is that there is nothing special about having the Warglaives, you just had to be lucky: Any idiot can be lucky.

    So let's compare it:
    Mists of Pandaria-legendary:
    1. Listen to some babbling.
    2. 20 Sigils.
    3. Get honored.
    4. Kill the Sha.
    5. Collect 6000 Valor.
    6. Become revered.
    7. Win two Battlegrounds.
    8. Kill a boss with 130 million HP.
    And at this step you have only received a gem and a gemslot!!!

    Warglaives:
    1. Kill Illidan.

    If we cut out the stuff you'd be doing anyway as a raider, LFR or normal/heroic, we'd get to:
    MoP: Farm Reputation for Wrathion, do two Battlegrounds and kill some random outdoor boss.
    TBC: Nothing.

    So please, you keep calling this thing "easy" but what are you comparing it with?
    I've put more effort and dedication so far in this questline than in my Shadowmourne.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Why should they be easy?
    I cannot answer that question without comparing it to another legendary.

    Random.org gave 4, so I will go with the Glaives from Illidan as they were the fourth legendary weapon(set) in WoW.
    So what was hard in obtaining the Glaives?
    The answer to that is easy: Nothing.
    Getting the Glaives required no effort whatsoever besides having a high attendancy.
    As a guild you do what you were doing anyway and the player that would get them, would just have to be there.
    So was the Black Temple hard?
    Reliquary required a lot of dps, Mother needed people to farm S-res gear and the Council and Illidan had some pretty tough tactics.
    But that point is irrelevant as guilds would do that anyway.
    What we learn from this is that there is nothing special about having the Warglaives, you just had to be lucky: Any idiot can be lucky.

    So let's compare it:
    Mists of Pandaria-legendary:
    1. Listen to some babbling.
    2. 20 Sigils.
    3. Get honored.
    4. Kill the Sha.
    5. Collect 6000 Valor.
    6. Become revered.
    7. Win two Battlegrounds.
    8. Kill a boss with 130 million HP.
    And at this step you have only received a gem and a gemslot!!!

    Warglaives:
    1. Kill Illidan.

    If we cut out the stuff you'd be doing anyway as a raider, LFR or normal/heroic, we'd get to:
    MoP: Farm Reputation for Wrathion, do two Battlegrounds and kill some random outdoor boss.
    TBC: Nothing.

    So please, you keep calling this thing "easy" but what are you comparing it with?
    I've put more effort and dedication so far in this questline than in my Shadowmourne.
    I was basically about to say all of this, and you said it for me. I love you. You deserve some sort of Medal of Forum Excellence Award.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Your whole argument is complete crap because repeatedly the lore characters in the game refer to player characters as "Heros" Not Hero, not singular, PLURAL. Meaning, more than one hero can get their hands on the same legendary weapon.

    Can we agree that the "Legendary" in this expansion is just not very legendary? Its just really common because even a cave man can get one. A legendary item should be difficult to obtain. "its legend preceeds itself" It should be very cool lore wise, i agree. But it should be difficult to obtain, and only a few should ever obtain a legendary while it is relevant content.

    As for your comment about being a "special snowflake," why shouldn't people who do extraordinary things be rewarded accordingly? Legendary weapons are supposed to be the best items in the game, so why should they be given to people who don't do extraordinary things to obtain them?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 08:21 PM ----------



    You failed to read the thread. I am not talking about TBC warglaives, im talking about current expansion "legendary" items.
    You fail to read period. Legendary weapons, in lore, are unique. Only one of each exists. Or in the case of Warglaives, TWO.

    /yourinsaneranting

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 02:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Thats a good description of the state of the game as it is right now actualy.. sad but true

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 08:33 PM ----------



    Before I answer you, why should legendary items be easy to obtain, and something that everyone should have? Whats your arguement in favor of having them this way? Other than the age old "I pay $15 / 13 Euro a month, i deserve everything else that the players that spend hours achieving as well with much less effort and dedication!"
    The MoP legendaries require the same amount of time and dedication from every single player who earns them. We have to farm reputation by killing hundreds of mobs, run raids until we earn 20 sigils, then run another raid to loot the essence of the sha of fear, THEN we have to earn 6,000 valor which can only be done over 6 weeks of valor farming, as well as killing hundreds more mobs for the next step of reputation. Then we have to gather a small group of people together to kill an opposing faction mob, complete and win two battlegrounds, and we finally get our current maximum legendary reward. Next tier, we will have to farm even more.

    Whether you like to admit it, more time and dedication has to be made for these legendaries than any previous legendary. RNG isn't hard. Just as someone could farm Molten Core their whole life and never receive the eye of sulfuras, I could farm it once and get it straight away.

    Legendaries take more actual effort now than they ever have, and those willing to complete normal and heroic modes earn them FASTER than those who don't.

  5. #485
    Welfare Legendaries... ever since WOTLK legendaries lost their 'meaning'. Legendaries were rare, now they are abundant. I remember 2-3 guys on the realm having Glaives, or Thunderfury (at the content appropriate level). Never saw an Atiesh. Now? Everyone had Shadowmournes, Tarecgosa's, Fangs.... and because people seems unhappy their class didn't get a legendary at the time... here we go, legendary gems\sockets\meta gems for everyone! You don't even need to be on a raiding guild, just LFR it!

    I dislike this new legendary philosophy, but who cares.

  6. #486
    Legendary, by definition of this game, is the next level in rarity above Epic.

    Of course at this point, Epic doesn't mean anything anyway. But back when it did, purple items were less common than blues, and blues less than greens, etc. Orange items then were above Epics. Bosses dropped purple items, and a very small chance to give you an Orange. Seems to be more rare to me.


    As of now, there is nothing rare about any of this quest. No filters or choke points.

  7. #487
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Welfare Legendaries... ever since WOTLK legendaries lost their 'meaning'.
    Legendaries since WotLK required more effort than the Classic/TBC-ones.
    So I have no idea what you are talking about.
    Legendaries were rare, now they are abundant. I remember 2-3 guys on the realm having Glaives, or Thunderfury (at the content appropriate level).
    That's due to dropchance, not effort.
    I dislike this new legendary philosophy, but who cares.
    Jaylock cares, luckily Blizzard doesn't.
    They understand that RNG is a bad way of making something Legendary.
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    As of now, there is nothing rare about any of this quest. No filters or choke points.
    How do you call the rep-farming and everything?
    And what exactly is so great about RNG being the filter/choke point?

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythicalfury View Post
    So you have a crystal ball that shows you what the final patches legendary will be?
    N less you do ,you have no idea what the end result will be.
    For all you know the lfr end one could just be an epic weapon, whilst normal and heroic get a legendary.
    5.2 is a gem not a weapon
    No need for a crystal ball to realize that every player will be able to acquire a legendary, most likely through LFR as well. It's impossible for Blizz to go "so uhhh you farmed all this rep, gathered all these sigils, worked your way to 6k VP, great work on that. Unfortunately only hardcore raiders will be able to complete the final step and obtain the legendary."

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Voolawl View Post
    Yup. I called it back at the last Blizzcon, when they announced everything, that they were streamlining content so that bad players could pretend to be at or around top tier players. This is just an example of that: making something that should actually mean Legendary available to anyone.

    Plus a cheap version of Pokemon just didn't catch my fancy. I can't say cancelling was a loss, except for maybe a couple encounters this last tier, nothing really stands out about the expansion.
    It's quite easy to have an opinion on something you haven't played. It doesn't help you win your argument, however. If you were a hardcore raider who has cleared 16/16H or Loremaster of Pandaria, or someone who has put in even a small amount of actual playtime in the expansion, I might be interested in why you feel this expansion pales in comparison to others. But if you haven't invested time into questing, learning about the lore, raiding end game content, or ultimately experiencing the actual quality of the expansion first hand, then your opinion doesn't really hold much water.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    In fact it should be green because thats what it is if everyone can get it. Legendary items used to mean something, and it took high end raiding to obtain them. Its funny how Blizzard has totally shifted their position of it being an item of prestige and honor to where its at now...

    "Oh hey look, you dont even need to be in a raid guild to get a legendary!"

    (thought bubble) "Jaylock thinks this is terrible game design."

    Your thoughts on the "legendary" item this expansion?

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    you know they probably come out with a new color and rareity.. ANcient color red/black/green who knows

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    I was basically about to say all of this, and you said it for me. I love you. You deserve some sort of Medal of Forum Excellence Award.
    Now i do see your point yes but keep in mind the dropchanse was extremley low and clearing bt wasnt the easiest walk in the park

  12. #492
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    You'll notice in the achievement pane that most of the legendary isnt unlocked yet. Instead of having an inventory of unusable items, now we can use our quest progress.

  13. #493
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    It's Blizzards own previous models of Legendaries that has brought this kind of thought about (in my opinion at least).

    In that past Legendaries have been something that took time and effort from the people wanting to acquire them, and they were usually only available for set a set class, spec or role. For the most part, certainly the earlier legendaries, were rare. But this was more to do with RNG restriction than, the process to acquire them (think Warglaives, or waiting for that right binding, etc). This has led to people viewing them in such a way, that now Blizzard is making a legendary for all, that will be common as muck, it's no longer legendary, but just another green you looted from that trash mob.

    It's legendary because of what you do to get it, not because only you have, or just a select few have it. And I think a quest chain that lasts the entirety of the expac is pretty legendary in itself, let alone any reward that may come from it.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakerel View Post
    It's Blizzards own previous models of Legendaries that has brought this kind of thought about (in my opinion at least).

    In that past Legendaries have been something that took time and effort from the people wanting to acquire them, and they were usually only available for set a set class, spec or role. For the most part, certainly the earlier legendaries, were rare. But this was more to do with RNG restriction than, the process to acquire them (think Warglaives, or waiting for that right binding, etc). This has led to people viewing them in such a way, that now Blizzard is making a legendary for all, that will be common as muck, it's no longer legendary, but just another green you looted from that trash mob.

    It's legendary because of what you do to get it, not because only you have, or just a select few have it. And I think a quest chain that lasts the entirety of the expac is pretty legendary in itself, let alone any reward that may come from it.
    You lost me when you said time and effort to acquire them.

  15. #495
    I don't consider this gem a 'legendary' in the say way i consider the Firelands staff as one. But i think that the amount of effort involved makes it worthy of the legendary colour. Its not like i logged in and got it 10 minutes later by doing a daily quest. More people have it simply because its available ot everyone not just a single class

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Can we agree that the "Legendary" in this expansion is just not very legendary? Its just really common because even a cave man can get one. A legendary item should be difficult to obtain. "its legend preceeds itself" It should be very cool lore wise, i agree. But it should be difficult to obtain, and only a few should ever obtain a legendary while it is relevant content.
    No. Because that's your opinion. One which is very obviously not shared by other players given the length of this thread and the number of people posting in disagreement with your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    As for your comment about being a "special snowflake," why shouldn't people who do extraordinary things be rewarded accordingly? Legendary weapons are supposed to be the best items in the game, so why should they be given to people who don't do extraordinary things to obtain them?
    People who do extraordinary things get rewarded much faster than casuals. And given the amount of time needed for just the first two steps, I find it exceedingly unlikely that the actual legendary weapons at the end of the chain will be acquired by any but the most hardcore players.

    But then shouting out that the sky is falling at the sign of a single rain drop is what this whole thread is based on, I doubt you even care about the full possible extent of this quest line.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Also, there shouldn't be a "one size fits all" legendary. They had the train of thought that they would choose which classes now got a legendary, and which patch to introduce a legendary if they felt it was a good time. But now they have completely steered away from that and offering legendaries to the masses. "oh hey, look at that, not only do i get faceroll purple pixels, but now i get a faceroll orange pixel item!"

    This just sickens me.
    So long as rogues get a legendary, it's par for the course. XD

    Well, with the exception of Wrath, but they got two accessible (even statistically designed for them) in TBC.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 10:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakerel View Post

    It's legendary because of what you do to get it, not because only you have, or just a select few have it. And I think a quest chain that lasts the entirety of the expac is pretty legendary in itself, let alone any reward that may come from it.
    This. Quel'delar was an epic but felt more Legendary than some of the BC and Classic legendary drops.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  18. #498
    Somethings got jaylocks jimmys in a bunch, i don't get how you can call this heated passion for the game when all you do is stick your fingers in your ear screaming I cant hear you so i must be right
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  19. #499
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So long as rogues get a legendary, it's par for the course. XD
    We only get so many of them because we're the coolest and deserve them the most

    *preen*

    (joking! joking! put down the pitchforks, guys)

    This. Quel'delar was an epic but felt more Legendary than some of the BC and Classic legendary drops.
    So I've heard. I'm still sad I've never found a Hilt. But that was my precise thought with regard to the new Legendary chains: it's a good model for those those things ought to be done.

    Frankly, we should have more chains like that, with or without a sweet item at the end. Everyone enjoys doing really epic quest lines, even people that don't particularly like questing itself. How many of us have fond memories uncovering Lady Prestor, or aiding Tirion in EPL, or helping Akama in Shadowmoon Valley, or the Wrathgate? Like... all of us.
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  20. #500
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    You're basing your views on much older, and very different Legendary Models. Legendaries have changed dramatically since Vanilla / The Burning Crusade.

    I do agree though, that with its current iteration, I don't feel compelled to get the Legendary Gems. Sure, they're a nice bonus, but you can't flaunt them!

    That said, we could end up combining all of our gems, and other legendary items to form a very powerful legendary tool, something that took the entire expansion to acquire is certainly going to be a lot more impressive then something you did in just a patch.

    Remember, that while it was data mined, and data mined information is never 100% accurate, there were legendary icons mined for all the weapon slots.

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