Page 26 of 27 FirstFirst ...
16
24
25
26
27
LastLast
  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Why should they be easy?
    I cannot answer that question without comparing it to another legendary.

    Random.org gave 4, so I will go with the Glaives from Illidan as they were the fourth legendary weapon(set) in WoW.
    So what was hard in obtaining the Glaives?
    The answer to that is easy: Nothing.
    Getting the Glaives required no effort whatsoever besides having a high attendancy.
    As a guild you do what you were doing anyway and the player that would get them, would just have to be there.
    So was the Black Temple hard?
    Reliquary required a lot of dps, Mother needed people to farm S-res gear and the Council and Illidan had some pretty tough tactics.
    But that point is irrelevant as guilds would do that anyway.
    What we learn from this is that there is nothing special about having the Warglaives, you just had to be lucky: Any idiot can be lucky.

    So let's compare it:
    Mists of Pandaria-legendary:
    1. Listen to some babbling.
    2. 20 Sigils.
    3. Get honored.
    4. Kill the Sha.
    5. Collect 6000 Valor.
    6. Become revered.
    7. Win two Battlegrounds.
    8. Kill a boss with 130 million HP.
    And at this step you have only received a gem and a gemslot!!!

    Warglaives:
    1. Kill Illidan.

    If we cut out the stuff you'd be doing anyway as a raider, LFR or normal/heroic, we'd get to:
    MoP: Farm Reputation for Wrathion, do two Battlegrounds and kill some random outdoor boss.
    TBC: Nothing.

    So please, you keep calling this thing "easy" but what are you comparing it with?
    I've put more effort and dedication so far in this questline than in my Shadowmourne.
    The same arguement can be said about the 8 item list you gave right there for Mop. "You do what you were doing anyway to get the legendary gem," except the problem I have with your list is item #2, and #4, and #8, all things that can be done in LFR. LFR does not require legendary effort, it requires no effort. None. Other than going AFK and jumping a few times and auto attacking while standing in bad shit all over the ground.

    I would be perfectly fine with how the legendary works in Mop if they made steps #2, #4, and #8 require you to do them on normal mode raids or heroic.

    Scratch LFR out of it, and its all of a sudden worth calling "legendary" and even then, deep down, personally, i think it should only be heroic mode raids only. (but thats just me)
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The same arguement can be said about the 8 item list you gave right there for Mop. "You do what you were doing anyway to get the legendary gem," except the problem I have with your list is item #2, and #4, and #8, all things that can be done in LFR. LFR does not require legendary effort, it requires no effort. None. Other than going AFK and jumping a few times and auto attacking while standing in bad shit all over the ground.
    It's interesting how you think that people who put so little effort into the game would bother with any of the other steps necessary to complete the legendary quest line.

  3. #503
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Litwak's Arcade Sunny Scotland!
    Posts
    6,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The same arguement can be said about the 8 item list you gave right there for Mop. "You do what you were doing anyway to get the legendary gem," except the problem I have with your list is item #2, and #4, and #8, all things that can be done in LFR. LFR does not require legendary effort, it requires no effort. None. Other than going AFK and jumping a few times and auto attacking while standing in bad shit all over the ground.

    I would be perfectly fine with how the legendary works in Mop if they made steps #2, #4, and #8 require you to do them on normal mode raids or heroic.

    Scratch LFR out of it, and its all of a sudden worth calling "legendary" and even then, deep down, personally, i think it should only be heroic mode raids only. (but thats just me)
    LFR may not be the most challenging of modes, but trust me some of us that go in there work our asses off to make the run succeed. I'd love to see how the majority of my LFR runs would be if all the healers that actually you know.. do their job and heal, were to suddenly just stop and go afk. DPS might beable to go AFK, but I can tell you that if any healer does it just gives more work to the others.

    I find your attitude to be rather narrow minded, when you make blanket statments such as the bolded above, when it is not the case at all.

    So while YOU may not think people in LFR are actually putting in effort or working for the rewards, I can tell you , you are wrong, because alot of us actually do.

    Legendaries and their quest chains are a great feature in WoW, and it would be a shame if only a tiny amount got to see those amazing story lines. Why stop others from enjoying this content, just because they can't schedule normal/heroic raids into their daily lives? Why does it matter to you what others have or get to experience?

  4. #504
    Stood in the Fire Management's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    462
    I, a PvPer with low knowledge of raiding, have a legendary weapon.... No offense blizz, but you are headed the wrong way. Not to mention the complete turd hammering that has become of pvp. Give every class one, just one unique cc to that class, not 1 million for each spec. Ohh, and not to mention the retarded healing that every single, hybrid or non hybrid class, gets. Sorry, went completely off topic. I just had to let it out.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by MurdiStorm View Post
    I like this new system more. I work to earn my own legendary, not for some other dude that's been nominated by the higher-ups. I get to experience a bit of lore, some questing, and earn a decent reward in the process, and this makes the game much more fun to me.

    I hope they keep it this way. Wow may be a MMORPG, but sometimes you just have to experience your own adventure.


    This.

    Is it really worth getting all emo and butthurt over ONE (that's 1) Legendary being attainable by everyone who puts the time into completing the chain? Who's to say that the next Legendary won't follow the previous "be nominated by guild and spend X weeks grinding for mats" formula?

  6. #506
    Personally i dont see how any of these items are legendary anyway by your standards Jaylock. Since each legendary just required a grind for tokens by doing normal raids, every caster could get the caster legendaries and melee get the melee legendaries and classes could get the class locked legendaries.

    To me legendaries arent legendary because of how rare they are in an RPG setting. Its about the process aka the Quest you go through to aquire it. So you can sit back and say look at the huge legendary questline i undertook to aquire this bad boy. Not look i grinded tokens in a raid and got another new shiny.

  7. #507
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    12,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The same arguement can be said about the 8 item list you gave right there for Mop. "You do what you were doing anyway to get the legendary gem," except the problem I have with your list is item #2, and #4, and #8, all things that can be done in LFR.
    No, not really.
    Without the legendary, I wouldn't be doing dailies, I wouldn't be doing BG's and I wouldn't be doing Heroics to cap my valorpoints (because I already have all the items).
    The only thing special about most old legendaries was the "OMG $%@%# YEAH IT DROPPED!".
    That feeling is great, we all loved it! But when you really think about it, it does not feel legendary at all to hope for a drop.

    The Onyxia, Quel'Delar and Ahn-Qiraij questlines, those were Legendary.
    Doing a raid you were doing anyway pales in comparison to that, even when those things were "easy" and most people could do them.

    LFR does not require legendary effort, it requires no effort. None. Other than going AFK and jumping a few times and auto attacking while standing in bad shit all over the ground.
    Yes, we all got your point by now: Raiding LFR is not Legendary.
    Well, guess what: Hoping for a 0.01% dropchance isn't Legendary either.

    Do you want to know what makes a legendary legendary? The questline and the lore.
    And at the moment this is more legendary than many other orange-weapons.
    I would be perfectly fine with how the legendary works in Mop if they made steps #2, #4, and #8 require you to do them on normal mode raids or heroic.
    So you don't care about them being Legendary, you just don't want to see them in the hands of people who raid LFR.
    Scratch LFR out of it, and its all of a sudden worth calling "legendary" and even then, deep down, personally, i think it should only be heroic mode raids only. (but thats just me)
    For once you are right, it is just you.

    So I hope we got this straight:
    Hoping for a 0,01% dropchance is not legendary at all!
    And that low dropchance is the only thing that separated the Warglaives from stuff like the Black Bow of the Betrayer.

    PS. You should really brush up your English or get a dictionary, because you are mistaking Legendary with hard-to-get.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So I hope we got this straight:
    Hoping for a 0,01% dropchance is not legendary at all!
    And that low dropchance is the only thing that separated the Warglaives from stuff like the Black Bow of the Betrayer.
    The legendary part was the journey getting there. The journey getting to illidan, and the legendary quest line that lead up to entering the doors of the black temple. Yes you had to complete that quest line to get into black temple, and it involved the legendary feat of:

    Killing Magtheradon
    Killing Lady Vashj
    Killing Nightbane
    Killing Gruul the Dragonkiller
    Killing Kael'Thas Sunstrider
    Killing Rage Winterchill (mt hjyal for the phylactery)

    The first 5 bosses were awesome in their own right. It was an accomplishment to kill these bosses. The legendary part of it was the lead up to getting the legendary item. The hopes of a chance of it dropping after all that hard work and effort. The thrill of finally seeing the first legendary glaive drop, and the suspense and drama of which of the 2 great rogues were to get the set first.

    How are you not seeing this? Hand of Adal title was only available to people who completed that quest chain. It was a pre-cursor to getting the legendary item. It was legendary effort for most of the World of Warcraft community of players. Sure, high end guilds that spend days and every waking hour raiding on the cutting edge got there first and the time it took was minimal (in terms of length of the expansion), but still, they spent hours upon hours of raiding to get there. Their effort was legendary in their own right.

    So the chance of an item dropping off a raid boss, however low it was was not the legendary part of obtaining the weapon, i can agree there. It was the precursor build up to having a chance that it would drop. Thats what made the legendary items so special. They were few in number, they took great effort to obtain. Very few people had them back then. Thats what the main difference is. There is no legendary effort required to get the Mop "legendary" Pure and simple grinding and time is all that is necessary. No skill. No coordination. No guild required. No teamwork effort. Its just pointless.
    Last edited by Jaylock; 2013-01-18 at 11:53 PM.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So the chance of an item dropping off a raid boss, however low it was was not the legendary part of obtaining the weapon, i can agree there.
    The glaives being a complete RNG drop negated the entire journey of getting to Illidan. You had that 'legendary journey' with no guarantee of ever seeing the legendary items. That's not a 'legendary journey', that's a lot of grinding just to hope to get a legendary. There was a chance that people who did all that work would never get rewarded with legendaries for that work. While people who came in after Patch 2.4 could jump straight into BT and potentially get the legendaries in the first week.

    That's not good design, which is why they dropped it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    There is no legendary effort required to get the Mop "legendary" Pure and simple grinding and time is all that is necessary. No skill. No coordination. No guild required. No teamwork effort. Its just pointless.
    Spending a lot of time in TBC = super awesome legendary journey. Spending a lot of time in MoP = boring grind with no skill or teamwork needed.

    Your bias against the game is showing.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So the chance of an item dropping off a raid boss, however low it was was not the legendary part of obtaining the weapon, i can agree there. It was the precursor build up to having a chance that it would drop. Thats what made the legendary items so special. They were few in number, they took great effort to obtain. Very few people had them back then. Thats what the main difference is. There is no legendary effort required to get the Mop "legendary" Pure and simple grinding and time is all that is necessary. No skill. No coordination. No guild required. No teamwork effort. Its just pointless.
    And this differs from an expansion long quest how?

  11. #511
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    12,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The legendary part was the journey getting there. The journey getting to illidan, and the legendary quest line that lead up to entering the doors of the black temple. Yes you had to complete that quest line to get into black temple, and it involved the legendary feat of:

    Killing Magtheradon
    Killing Lady Vashj
    Killing Nightbane
    Killing Gruul the Dragonkiller
    Killing Kael'Thas Sunstrider
    Killing Rage Winterchill (mt hjyal for the phylactery)
    So players/guilds that weren't working on a Legendary weren't doing that? Never knew that.
    PS. It didn't take that long before you could skip all those bosses and could go straight into Black Temple.

    But what you are arguing is that Black Temple felt Legendary, NOT the weapon it dropped!

    The first 5 bosses were awesome in their own right. It was an accomplishment to kill these bosses. The legendary part of it was the lead up to getting the legendary item. The hopes of a chance of it dropping after all that hard work and effort. The thrill of finally seeing the first legendary glaive drop, and the suspense and drama of which of the 2 great rogues were to get the set first.
    So in short: Screaming because the RNG-gods favoured you..
    Yeeaaah, really legendary! That's just as legendary as.. I don't know.. every other item that dropped from the boss?

    How are you not seeing this? Hand of Adal title was only available to people who completed that quest chain. It was a pre-cursor to getting the legendary item. It was legendary effort for most of the World of Warcraft community of players. Sure, high end guilds that spend days and every waking hour raiding on the cutting edge got there first and the time it took was minimal (in terms of length of the expansion), but still, they spent hours upon hours of raiding to get there. Their effort was legendary in their own right.
    The effort in getting into Black Temple, not the weapon.
    By your logic the entire leveling process includes the effort for a legendary.
    Hell, with your logic I could argue that buying my PC was part of the effort of getting the item.

    There is no legendary effort required to get the Mop "legendary"
    At least there is more effort in this than in getting the Warglaives!

  12. #512
    Everyone isn't going to get a legendary this expansion (sure they might find it easier to finish the legendary next expansion than farming some of the old 1s). Blizz said in Cata that the legendary rogue daggers and caster staff were too common so I doubt they are going to make everyone able to get the legendary. A legendary gem and some weapon upgrades aren't a legendary.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by defer09 View Post
    The game was different 6 years ago. In a 40 man raid, 1 person having an OP legendary did not effect balancing at all.

    If you have a raid stacked with hard to obtain legendaries then it is impossible to balance around that. Look at DS. You could stack the raid with 10-15 legendaries and have an extreme advantage over other guilds.

    This system allows balancing around having a legendary becasue everyone will have them.

    I would honestly prefer that no legendaries were in the game.

    I think we all know the balancing nightmare that took place after the entire raid of casters in 25mans all had the caster staff from firelands.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    The glaives being a complete RNG drop negated the entire journey of getting to Illidan. You had that 'legendary journey' with no guarantee of ever seeing the legendary items. That's not a 'legendary journey', that's a lot of grinding just to hope to get a legendary. There was a chance that people who did all that work would never get rewarded with legendaries for that work. While people who came in after Patch 2.4 could jump straight into BT and potentially get the legendaries in the first week.

    That's not good design, which is why they dropped it.


    Spending a lot of time in TBC = super awesome legendary journey. Spending a lot of time in MoP = boring grind with no skill or teamwork needed.

    Your bias against the game is showing.
    My guild farmed illidan for months even after Sunwell opened and we got 1 legendary illidan sword in that whole time and then the guy who got it quit mid Sunwell. We never got a full set which could have made a big difference to my guild in Sunwell. In my Vanilla guild we farmed MC for over 6 months and never saw even a single binding of the windseeker or the Rag item for Hand of Ragnaros. Items such as those that make a big difference to a guilds progression shouldn't be entirely about luck.

    So ye... I agree with you.

  15. #515
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,842
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    I think we all know the balancing nightmare that took place after the entire raid of casters in 25mans all had the caster staff from firelands.
    And that, in a way, really is the bottom line to this thread and the many others like it over the last few months. No one posting here knows for certain what the final reward will even be with any specifics or what's finally required to get it. No one knows how many people will get it either. To my mind it's all really just noise with very little in the way of signal. In any case, I can't get very exercised over the difference between calling something a 'legendary' or calling it an 'end-of-expansion reward'. It's the same thing in either case so really it's just an argument over semantics.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The legendary part was the journey getting there. The journey getting to illidan, and the legendary quest line that lead up to entering the doors of the black temple. Yes you had to complete that quest line to get into black temple, and it involved the legendary feat of:

    Killing Magtheradon
    Killing Lady Vashj
    Killing Nightbane
    Killing Gruul the Dragonkiller
    Killing Kael'Thas Sunstrider
    Killing Rage Winterchill (mt hjyal for the phylactery)

    The first 5 bosses were awesome in their own right. It was an accomplishment to kill these bosses. The legendary part of it was the lead up to getting the legendary item. The hopes of a chance of it dropping after all that hard work and effort. The thrill of finally seeing the first legendary glaive drop, and the suspense and drama of which of the 2 great rogues were to get the set first.

    How are you not seeing this? Hand of Adal title was only available to people who completed that quest chain. It was a pre-cursor to getting the legendary item. It was legendary effort for most of the World of Warcraft community of players. Sure, high end guilds that spend days and every waking hour raiding on the cutting edge got there first and the time it took was minimal (in terms of length of the expansion), but still, they spent hours upon hours of raiding to get there. Their effort was legendary in their own right.

    So the chance of an item dropping off a raid boss, however low it was was not the legendary part of obtaining the weapon, i can agree there. It was the precursor build up to having a chance that it would drop. Thats what made the legendary items so special. They were few in number, they took great effort to obtain. Very few people had them back then. Thats what the main difference is. There is no legendary effort required to get the Mop "legendary" Pure and simple grinding and time is all that is necessary. No skill. No coordination. No guild required. No teamwork effort. Its just pointless.
    The rose tinting on your shades must be as thick as Hubert Farnsworth's glasses. For starters, Hand of Adal is not worth much since people who kept the quest in their logs could get it much much later, expansions later. Second, BT was much more accessible towards the end of the expansion. This "legendary" journey you are talking about only exist in your strange perception of things. No one that raided BT came out with orange speckles floating around them, since that seems to be one of the qualities you deem legendary in your previous post. Don't try to argue that the glaives were any different from MC legendary weapons, because they were not. Every legendary pre wrath was just a lucky drop. Your guild could be world 1st or good enough to down illidan twice, it did not change that chance your group had at legendary weapons. World class raiders with more skill than you will ever muster went without getting a legendary due to rng; yet, there were folk who managed to get them with much less skill and effort.

    Your examples suck! At least use the wrath examples, they took effort past regular raiding and sheer luck.

  17. #517
    Well it fits the theme of the expansion - everyone better get on doing some dailies. Requiring no teamwork at all to get up to this point in the "legendary" quest is beyond boring but funnily enough I suppose that is how people like it.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Well it fits the theme of the expansion - everyone better get on doing some dailies. Requiring no teamwork at all to get up to this point in the "legendary" quest is beyond boring but funnily enough I suppose that is how people like it.
    I'm assuming heroic and normal mode legendaries will be better quality than LFR ones. I fail to see the issue.

  19. #519
    It will definitely grant a legendary item that will require some good effort towards the end of the expansion, or perhaps during thunder king's raid.

    It will definitely be more legendary than older legendaries... once the last patch hits, just rerolling a char and trying to do everything to get it will be near impossible, it probably takes like 10 weeks of contasnt play and several farming or mobs / dailies to simply progress through the legendary quest, and thats only for the first tier...

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    It will definitely grant a legendary item that will require some good effort towards the end of the expansion, or perhaps during thunder king's raid.

    It will definitely be more legendary than older legendaries... once the last patch hits, just rerolling a char and trying to do everything to get it will be near impossible, it probably takes like 10 weeks of contasnt play and several farming or mobs / dailies to simply progress through the legendary quest, and thats only for the first tier...
    Which would comparable to previous legendaries.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •