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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Mogu and trolls?

    Ok as we all know Night Elves Descended from Dark Spear Trolls many thousands of years ago. However reading though some of the stuff for the up coming content I can't help but notice something odd.







    Female Mogu http://www.wowhead.com/news=209326/5...1:46975:0:10+0

    What the first image shows is a hulking troll who looks a bit like he's in Mogu gear, also he looks a bit like a Mogu.

    In the second image we see the female Mogu looks just like a female troll. So my thinking is the curse of flesh effects Mogus by turning them into Trolls.



    Maybe I am reading to much into this. But it really is starting to look like they plan to drop that soon.

    Also I think there is a goblin connection as well see image
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...del_07_1_1.jpg

    Look at his face. And compare http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._cataclysm.png



    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2013-01-17 at 08:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Also I think there is a goblin connection as well see image
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...del_07_1_1.jpg

    Look at his face. And compare http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._cataclysm.png
    And if you compare a gnomes face to a humans it'll look similar. Shocker.

    Mogu already have an origin story in that they were changed the same way the fish guys were, by the magic waters in the vale of eternal blossoms.

    They look a bit similar (and only females at that), nothing much more to say.

  3. #3
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    There are no female Jinyu and Mogu ingame.

  4. #4
    The mogu were titan creations afflicted by the Curse of Flesh, but the trolls are said to have pre-dated the arrival of the titans, having been alive during the time of the Old Gods before the titans came. So I don't think the connection is there.

    There may be one between goblins and trolls though, I seem to recall the goblin races being enslaved by the trolls before they developed their current high intellect. They may be some kind of distant sub-species.

  5. #5
    Nope. First, the Mogu we fight, for the most part, are fleshy. They have some stone ones among them, like those constructed Jade Warriors, but the majority are already made of flesh. The Consorts are not even original Mogu, as Lei Shen used the Thunder Forge to craft them.

    Second, Blizzard already confirmed that both Trolls and Aqir PREDATED the Titans. Since the Mogu are now confirmed to be of Titan origin, this means that the Mogu came after the Trolls.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    And if you compare a gnomes face to a humans it'll look similar. Shocker.

    Mogu already have an origin story in that they were changed the same way the fish guys were, by the magic waters in the vale of eternal blossoms.

    They look a bit similar (and only females at that), nothing much more to say.
    Actually the lore coming out in the next patch and raid info is the Mogu were made by the Titans for some purpose. However with the waters and the curse of flesh Mugu could have become Trolls, Goblins, and Night Elves.

    It is very interesting to compare the faces, because they are more than just similar they are progressively similar. ie they share most features but one or two.

    Ears all.
    Mogu Tusks = Troll
    Mogu Monster Eyebrow = Elves
    Mogu Glowing eyes = all but goblins.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 12:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    There are no female Jinyu and Mogu ingame.
    Data mine in the next patch.
    http://www.wowhead.com/news=209326/5...1:46975:0:10+0

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Actually the lore coming out in the next patch and raid info is the Mogu were made by the Titans for some purpose. However with the waters and the curse of flesh Mugu could have become Trolls, Goblins, and Night Elves.
    Except like we already pointed out, Trolls predated the Titans.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Nope. First, the Mogu we fight, for the most part, are fleshy. They have some stone ones among them, like those constructed Jade Warriors, but the majority are already made of flesh. The Consorts are not even original Mogu, as Lei Shen used the Thunder Forge to craft them.

    Second, Blizzard already confirmed that both Trolls and Aqir PREDATED the Titans. Since the Mogu are now confirmed to be of Titan origin, this means that the Mogu came after the Trolls.
    You are referring to a discussion with one of the dev members and a magazine. Which is not set in stone. Since they are making it up as they go.

    However in game: Within the Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone, and the raid instance of Ulduar there are several blueprints for different Azerothian races, including Trolls, Tauren, Humans and Elves.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Except like we already pointed out, Trolls predated the Titans.
    Only problem is the in game lore makes it seem that the Titans made the world, and then after a long period of time visited and found the Old Gods had corrupted the world so they tried to remove them. You need to listen to raid dialog in titan themed raids. It is not so clear anymore who came first or why.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    You are referring to a discussion with one of the dev members and a magazine. Which is not set in stone. Since they are making it up as they go.
    Until it is overwritten or said to be debunked, it's canon. The magazine is also what confirmed Night Elves even came from trolls in the first place.

    However in game: Within the Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone, and the raid instance of Ulduar there are several blueprints for different Azerothian races, including Trolls, Tauren, Humans and Elves.
    Those are not blueprints, they are statues. Decorations likely put up by a really bored Lokan. Otherwise the fact a NIGHT ELF is being displayed at all is rather far fetched, since the Titans left the planet before Night Elves even became a thing. If we are going to use those statues as proof of something, then I can aruge that the Titans could forsee the Sundering because that big globe in Lokan's throne room showed all the landmasses as post-sundering, even though it's way easier to point out Lokan just updated the globe himself.

    Only problem is the in game lore makes it seem that the Titans made the world, and then after a long period of time visited and found the Old Gods had corrupted the world so they tried to remove them. You need to listen to raid dialog in titan themed raids. It is not so clear anymore who came first or why.
    That information was not even from a raid, it was from the Tribunal of Ages in the Halls of Stone. And no, it didn't say they returned a long period after. It could have been a long period, it could have been a week. All we know is that at the time the Earthen were being overtaken by the Curse of Flesh. Either way, the Trolls predating the Titans is still canon, because predating does not mean just the second visit, it means predating the Titans landing on the planet at all.
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2013-01-17 at 09:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Urti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    There are no female Jinyu and Mogu ingame.
    A female mogu model was datamined in patch 5.2
    "Stop being a giant trolling asshole." - Boubouille
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    "Facts became discussable when critical thinking stopped being the focus of education."- Chonogo
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  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    That troll is jin'rokh. He has existed in game before but with a dire troll model.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 09:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Urti View Post
    A female mogu model was datamined in patch 5.2
    Yeah, twin consorts will be two mogu females.

  12. #12
    Physically, she actually looks more reminiscent of the Draenei and Worgen females to me-- I suppose it's the feet and the skeleton.

    I can see the similarities in the faces, but that doesn't necessarily make an evolutionary connection. Gnomes and humans, as was pointed out, also have very similar facial features, as do dwarves.

    I don't think this kind of correlation fits with the lore, personally.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    I can see the similarities in the faces, but that doesn't necessarily make an evolutionary connection. Gnomes and humans, as was pointed out, also have very similar facial features, as do dwarves.
    To be fair though, Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes did all come from Titan constructs. They do have a connection.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    Physically, she actually looks more reminiscent of the Draenei and Worgen females to me-- I suppose it's the feet and the skeleton.

    I can see the similarities in the faces, but that doesn't necessarily make an evolutionary connection. Gnomes and humans, as was pointed out, also have very similar facial features, as do dwarves.

    I don't think this kind of correlation fits with the lore, personally.
    Gnomes, Dwarves and humans are made in the image of the Titans. So really they have titanic faces. With Mogu, Trolls, Night Elves, and Goblins we have a different archetype. The coming patch is making Mogu and trolls visually closer, and also making Mogu Titanic Creations. This is why I am putting out this theory. However one of the devs in October said something contrary to this idea. The real question who was it? Because they seem to be heading in the direction of Mogu being the Troll ancestor.

    On a side note, Warcraft has three different pantheon of gods, Titans, Naaru, and the Old gods. With a second tier of demi-gods aka Ancients. Most of the beast-men races seem descend from the Demi-god ancients. However the Demi-god ancients seem to relate to the Titans in many cases. The question really is who made what? Because we are near the end of the background lore, as we progress towards the inevitable fight against actual Titans.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    The real question who was it? Because they seem to be heading in the direction of Mogu being the Troll ancestor.
    That is a theory you have based on limited, very subjective evidence. They are not "heading in that direction" like you seem to be implying. The Mogu, in fact, looks almost nothing like the trolls. Those "tusk" you mentioned are not even tusks, they are fangs. The one troll you pointed out, Jin'rohk, is specifically said to be "boosted" by the Thunder King to help defend the Throne of Thunder, which is why he looks more beefy with lightening.

    On a side note, Warcraft has three different pantheon of gods, Titans, Naaru, and the Old gods. With a second tier of demi-gods aka Ancients. Most of the beast-men races seem descend from the Demi-god ancients. However the Demi-god ancients seem to relate to the Titans in many cases. The question really is who made what? Because we are near the end of the background lore, as we progress towards the inevitable fight against actual Titans.
    You just totally blew any credibility as a lore buff you had by calling the Naaru "Gods". The Naaru are space traveling demi-gods, probably on a similar level of the Ancients/Loa, and nowhere near the power of the Titans or Old Gods.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Except like we already pointed out, Trolls predated the Titans.
    Indeed. What isn't clear is whether Night Elves predate them or are a result of them, there's reason to think the latter now. Especially with seeing how Titans shaped the aspects from proto-dragons.
    My own fan speculation is the Trolls had help from the Titans to fight the Aqir. That help came in the form of the Mogu on the ground (which is how they became allied) and the Titans selecting a group of the most martial of trolls to ascend, via Titan magic, to Night Elves, similar to protodrake aspects becoming their current form.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 05:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    You just totally blew any credibility as a lore buff you had by calling the Naaru "Gods". The Naaru are space traveling demi-gods, probably on a similar level of the Ancients/Loa, and nowhere near the power of the Titans or Old Gods.
    Naaru aren't even on par with Demigods. They are like "Light and Shadow Elementals".

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    [/COLOR]Naaru aren't even on par with Demigods. They are like "Light and Shadow Elementals".
    I would put some of them at demigod status, like A'dal, but you are right that they have a lot that are barely even close to the power of some rather talented mortals. One even leads the army versus Illidan but couldn't face Illidan or his generals itself.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I would put some of them at demigod status, like A'dal, but you are right that they have a lot that are barely even close to the power of some rather talented mortals. One even leads the army versus Illidan but couldn't face Illidan or his generals itself.
    Probably just splitting hairs, but where does an Elemental Lord stand compared to a demigod, like Cenarius vs Ragnaros?

  19. #19
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Naaru aren't even on par with Demigods.
    Elune says hi.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Elune says hi.
    Elune's not a Naaru. Can it with your terribly sourced campaign of misinformation. Fanwank is bad enough about a legion expansion without ill-informed loudmouths like yourself trying to cite a meaningless remark from a single lore character whom has been proven ignorant of Azeroth as more valid than the buckets of written lore with respect to both Elune and Naaru (and how clearly different they are).

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