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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Probably just splitting hairs, but where does an Elemental Lord stand compared to a demigod, like Cenarius vs Ragnaros?
    Considering it took Cenarius, Malfurion, and Hamuul to push Ragnaros back into the Firelands, it's likely he was on par with higher demigods like Malorne.

    Elune says hi.
    Yes, because an offhand comment done by a purple space goat to promote controversy in the community is surely 100% factual lore. /sarcasm

  2. #22
    Also re.: OP, that first troll pic is of Jin'rokh the Breaker, a dire troll who has been imbued with the Thunder King's magic, hence his mogu-like gear and tattoos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Probably just splitting hairs, but where does an Elemental Lord stand compared to a demigod, like Cenarius vs Ragnaros?
    Probably superior, as Cenarius needed help from archdruids and players to face down Ragnaros on his home turf, plus all the animal demigods in Mount Hyjal combined were only somewhat stalemating Ragnaros' forces until the Alliance and the Horde tipped the scales.

    Incidentally, my own theory re.: trolls vs aqir was that they had help from the dragonflights. Bug people like to burrow, and back then the black flight was still guarding the deep earth, so...

    And incidentally incidentally, Elune being somewhat similar to the naaru may be significant, but in a different way than some people think. We don't really know anything about the naaru or where they came from, but let's give this crazy theory a shot:

    Old Gods. Big bad news. Made of substances not of this universe. When they die, they give rise to evil creatures made of anger, hate, and other negative energies.

    Gods, like Elune. What happens when they die? Mayhap they shatter into fragments, like a mirror. Each one radiating positive energies, like the Light...

    So maybe the naaru were born from some kind of deity similar to Elune, a deity that was broken into uncounted pieces, each one becoming a naaru. Thus, their essence would be of that god, but reduced. Just as the Sha are of the Old Gods, but lesser.

    It's not that Elune is a naaru. It's that the naaru are related to a god-like entity similar to Elune.

    Maybe.
    Last edited by Golden Yak; 2013-01-18 at 07:34 AM.

  3. #23
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Considering it took Cenarius, Malfurion, and Hamuul to push Ragnaros back into the Firelands, it's likely he was on par with higher demigods like Malorne.



    Yes, because an offhand comment done by a purple space goat to promote controversy in the community is surely 100% factual lore. /sarcasm
    Check his signature and you'll understand.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Check his signature and you'll understand.
    Her* and what about it? More lore-ignorant people feel a need to throw off-topic troll commentary my way? Btw, it's a response to someone else saying "Elune is a Naaru, deal with it"

    Incidentally, my own theory re.: trolls vs aqir was that they had help from the dragonflights. Bug people like to burrow, and back then the black flight was still guarding the deep earth, so...
    Timeline seems to be getting really blurred that far back. We don't know when the Titans empowered the Flights or the exact time when the Trolls went to war with the Aqir. All we have now is a date at 12000 years which was when the Pandaren revolted against the Mogu and overthrew them. The trolls aided the Mogu, and supposedly the Night Elves attacked the Trolls and aided the Pandaren but I've yet to see anything in game or otherwise with respect to that.

  5. #25
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    the theory does not hold water. the trolls predate the titans, they call the titans travelers.

    mogu were made after the titans showed up.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Timeline seems to be getting really blurred that far back. We don't know when the Titans empowered the Flights or the exact time when the Trolls went to war with the Aqir.
    16,000 years ago was when the trolls shattered the aqir empire of Azj'Aqir, according to in-game books. This would be well before the black dragonflight went crazy-flakes - they would still have been the titans' top dogs when it comes to protecting Azeroth's subterranean regions.

    Not sure if they've given a concrete date on when the titans ousted the Old Gods and reworked the planet, but the only number ever given was 150,000 years or so.

  7. #27
    I didnt read past page one, but my theory is that the titans created a mogu like races in Draenor and those got the curse of the flesh and turned into Orcs.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Weirdbear's Avatar
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    Your wild theories dont do it for me. There's just to much speculation. And adding to that you pinpoint Dark Spear trolls as ancestors to Night Elves. Some theories suggest it to be Dark trolls. Dark trolls are not Dark Spear trolls.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Only problem is the in game lore makes it seem that the Titans made the world, and then after a long period of time visited and found the Old Gods had corrupted the world so they tried to remove them. You need to listen to raid dialog in titan themed raids. It is not so clear anymore who came first or why.
    They didn´t create it - they reshaped it in their image. Which is what all their creations was meant to do.
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    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
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  10. #30
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    The Titans have never been on Draenor.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Maybe I am reading to much into this.
    Yes. The Mogu leg anatomy clearly displayed by the consort is a far bigger difference between them and the trolls/elves than the tusks are a similarity. Mogu are anatomically even closer to draenei than trolls.

    Employing your logic of "similarities of facial structures demonstrate ancestry", dwarves, gnomes, elves and humans would all be evolutionary stages of each other too.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The Titans have never been on Draenor.
    Or were they?!

    http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8513/ianwow018.jpg

    Something caused the 'earth giants' to devolve into tiny, fleshy orcs...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Something caused the 'earth giants' to devolve into tiny, fleshy orcs...
    You do realize that the "Earth Giants" themselves were fleshy, right? Otherwise their BONES wouldn't have been used to form the Temples of the Damned. They wouldn't have bones at all.

    I prefer the idea that Draenor is untouched, and that all the races on it evolved through either natural or local methods. The fact the Burning Legion considered it a "backwater" world means it likely was not on their original destruction path, and the destruction path was specifically following the Titans as they worked.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    16,000 years ago was when the trolls shattered the aqir empire of Azj'Aqir, according to in-game books. This would be well before the black dragonflight went crazy-flakes - they would still have been the titans' top dogs when it comes to protecting Azeroth's subterranean regions.

    Not sure if they've given a concrete date on when the titans ousted the Old Gods and reworked the planet, but the only number ever given was 150,000 years or so.
    Right now there is supposed to be the dawn of the aspects which already said the aspects were mere protodrakes when they banded together to facedown Galakrond. It's also stated that the Titans empowered them, which made them what they are today which is clearly not a proto-drake but far more advanced and powerful. Such gifts were passed on, at least the forms and greater intelligence, to their progeny and drakes and dragons look nothing like proto-drakes and proto-dragons any more beyond both being flying lizards. The timeline for this matters. If it coincides or even takes place later than 16000 years, it means the dragons had nothing to do with the Trolls fighting the Aqir. If it takes place before it, they *could* have lent a hand but then just as easily the Titans themselves could've helped as well. 15000 years ago is when the Vrykul began to suffer the ill effects of the curse of flesh (which resulted in human babies). Which means they were already off the planet, and the Vrykul themselves felt abandoned by the Titans and rejected them as their gods. (aside from those loyal to Thorim)

    The new Mogu lore says the Mogu was the Titan's stone legion and did battle directly with the armies of the Old Gods, of which the Aqir were clearly a part of. The Mogu thumbed their noses at every other race on the planet, other than the Trolls and there has to be an explanation for it, clearly they weren't awed by the impressive power of the Trolls; Lei Shen could fart more power than they could ever muster. If they had fought alongside each other it could've been an alliance forged long ago in battle. Pure speculation but makes sense to me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 08:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I prefer the idea that Draenor is untouched, and that all the races on it evolved through either natural or local methods. The fact the Burning Legion considered it a "backwater" world means it likely was not on their original destruction path, and the destruction path was specifically following the Titans as they worked.
    Me too. This unified universe gibberish is not compelling at all. It makes for bad stories not good ones. Im sure some people would be like "Oh how awesome Draenei and Orcs are flesh cursed mogu and Old Gods are everywhere, and Elune is a Naaru so everything is all wrapped up in a nice tidy package" but
    that is not in the slightest bit interesting and is just laziness in story telling.
    Last edited by Justignoreme; 2013-01-18 at 08:03 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    And if you compare a gnomes face to a humans it'll look similar. Shocker.

    Mogu already have an origin story in that they were changed the same way the fish guys were, by the magic waters in the vale of eternal blossoms.

    They look a bit similar (and only females at that), nothing much more to say.
    no they werent. the mogu were the stone soldiers of the titans that fought the old gods.

    also when a mogu gets cursed and turned into flesh.... it turns into a mogu... thats why most of the mogu are flesh...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 03:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Or were they?!

    http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8513/ianwow018.jpg

    Something caused the 'earth giants' to devolve into tiny, fleshy orcs...
    the old gods have had influence on draenor however as far as we know the titans havent

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 03:10 AM ----------

    oh also the trolls were here BEFORE the titans showed up
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    no they werent. the mogu were the stone soldiers of the titans that fought the old gods.

    also when a mogu gets cursed and turned into flesh.... it turns into a mogu... thats why most of the mogu are flesh...
    Not to mention they made the Vale xD

    the old gods have had influence on draenor however as far as we know the titans havent
    That was never confirmed to be an Old God at all. Recycled model for something of barely any significance does not an Old God on Draenor make.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    I didnt read past page one, but my theory is that the titans created a mogu like races in Draenor and those got the curse of the flesh and turned into Orcs.
    the orcs evolved from ogres. who evolved from gronn offspring, which evolved from gronn, which evolved from bone giants, which evolved from who knows whats

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 03:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Not to mention they made the Vale xD

    That was never confirmed to be an Old God at all. Recycled model for something of barely any significance does not an Old God on Draenor make.
    theres old gods in space, the arrakoa worship dark ones, their summoning an old god looking creature from space. its most likely an old god
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  18. #38
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Or were they?!

    http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8513/ianwow018.jpg

    Something caused the 'earth giants' to devolve into tiny, fleshy orcs...
    that would be more indicative of old gods than titans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark
    However in game: Within the Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone, and the raid instance of Ulduar there are several blueprints for different Azerothian races, including Trolls, Tauren, Humans and Elves.
    except that fundamentally makes no sense... the titans didn't plan humans, and as has been said, and verified by blizzard themselves, tauren and Trolls existed before the titans ever came to Azeroth. I'm pretty sure they're just fancy shmancy statues.

    As for the curse of flesh timeline, the only "date" I ever got pertaining to it was from the Quest "Anguish of Nifflevar," where the quest giver comments that the vision of the vrykul lamenting their "aberrant" human child dates to 15,000 years ago... which seems an awfully short time, given that the sundering itself happened 10,000 years prior to current events. Moreso that the Pandaren revolution occured 12,000 years ago.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-01-18 at 08:15 AM.
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    Kaleredar is right...
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    theres old gods in space, the arrakoa worship dark ones, their summoning an old god looking creature from space. its most likely an old god
    Source? Old Gods are entirely an Azeroth phenomena.
    Like I said, they reused a model for C'thun but it doesn't mean much of anything.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    You do realize that the "Earth Giants" themselves were fleshy, right? Otherwise their BONES wouldn't have been used to form the Temples of the Damned. They wouldn't have bones at all.
    Or were they stone bones? Ra-Den's got blood, after all, and he's all stony.

    Okay, not every theory can be correct. I prefer Draenor being non-titan touched myself, although the Old Gods have been there, probably before BC's era too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    If they had fought alongside each other it could've been an alliance forged long ago in battle. Pure speculation but makes sense to me.
    Yep, very possible. The trolls were enemies of the aqir obviously, so they might not have been fond of the Old Gods either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Source? Old Gods are entirely an Azeroth phenomena.
    Like I said, they reused a model for C'thun but it doesn't mean much of anything.
    Oooh, I love answering this one. Boom!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1008430853#2

    Question #4. Fear the Old Gods!
    Last edited by Golden Yak; 2013-01-18 at 08:19 AM.

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