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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    2006 - Company of Heroes - Senior Designer
    2004 - Warhammer 40k Dawn of War - Design and Story
    You seem to be quite butthurt about him failing so miserably. There there. Bravik said himself that Blizzard lost their Action RPG talent a while ago. The RTS clown Wilson had no clue what he was getting in to. You can spew poison all you wan't, but Diablo 2 remains a great game that will be loved by millions around the world.

    Diablo 3 was sold for 10 dollars 3 months after its release and given away for free to wow subscribers. It is a disaster. It is and eyesore. It was a flop. You can shout until you are blue in the face and none of that will change.

    Lets cross our fingers and hope Ghostcrawler is next on the list.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2013-01-18 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #222
    I don't understand wh people are always refering to the sold copies...

    Yes the game was sold very good, why? Because of reputation and the franchise name!
    It's like with every other very good thing, people will buy the sequell because they expect it to be good aswell, but it doesn't have to be ... because once people are seeing that this thing is utter crap they already bought it.

    And that's exactly what happend with Diablo3 because this game has no monthly fee that would drop, every buck is payed in advance while purchasing the game, before you played it.


    People expected an outstanding game because of Blizzards reputation and success with WoW and Diablo2 before, but they were not provided with it, they got crap and still payed for it.


    So if you want a to compare numbers you have to take the numbers of how many people are playing the game now ... or were playing it half a year later.

    Not the numbers of how many people were trustful enough to buy the game from a once great company and got disapointed soon after.
    Last edited by Talime; 2013-01-18 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #223
    no offense but...
    I DAMN GLAD he step away from this.
    and i do hope blizzard learn the lesson not do release unfinish game like this again

    *and i really hope he not move to titan project
    "if you dont like it, dont play the game! I love the way this game is 100% and nothing should be changed, because beta's aren't meant to improve a game. I will defend this games honor with my life and will refuse that anything bad be said about things that could be improved!"

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  4. #224
    The Lightbringer Howard Moon's Avatar
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    Spoiler: BenBos is Jay Wilson.
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  5. #225
    Pit Lord Ravenblade's Avatar
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    His legacy will be that under his lead the team turned a referential franchise into one which serves as antithesis for the entire genre and one laden with controversial design decisions. I am not surprised that he buried his reasoning PR-style under a heap of creativity-related reasons and fills in the rest with various expressions of pride however I am not holding a grudge against him. It just didn't work out as he had hoped popularity-wise. The game is sort of stuck between two rocks, it sold well but has a lot of popularity issues. You'd think at these sales numbers it would be on levels of Minecraft and Day Z in terms of popularity, but nope, it got treated like a stepchild by various gaming sites which is ironic when you see that the same sites two or heck, let's say fours years before release would freely provide advertisement for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctifer616 View Post
    Then how can you tell if a game (or anything else is popular)? Diablo 3 biggest issue is hype. Just look at D2 numbers and compare them to D3. D2 sold around 4 million copies, LoD sold about 2 million copies, D3 sold more than 10 million with 6 million just in the first week. D2 fan base wasn't big enough to account for all of D3 sales. There is a ton of people that bought D3 without even knowing what it is about. Just reading some of the early complains from some players where just silly "I have to endlessly farm?", "I have to play the game beyond normal to reach max level?".[...]
    Yes, Diablo 3's biggest issue was hype. It was contributed and promoted by Blizzard themselves and in a fairly aggressive manner and only at the end they tried to moderate it - without success though. People really believed it to be the messiah of PC gaming and would be played for years to come. Some people went to extreme levels when it was released (quit jobs, took long leaves, bought expensive equipment, sold their entire game collections etc.)

    It is very difficult to compare D2 sales on 1:1 basis considering that when it was released in 2000 where its sales numbers were marked as record as well. No surprise when you consider the size of the PC market at that time. Of course at a point sales are stagnating and not increasing much further. Today 10m are a record candidate as well but in a time where such number would not be insanely even for the PC market when it comes down to concurrent players, at a time when the PC gaming market is outnumbered by consoles and mobile devices. As such it is much harder to land a title with a footprint the same size of the likes of Diablo 2:LoD and Broodwar. Game companies would look up to these and say: Our games must be as good and innovative as these in order to succeed. The irony is that when it comes to the ARPG genre then competitors now can trust their own formulas now instead of trying to be as good as Diablo 3. It gave a lot developer companies much more breathing room where they feared they would be completely swept aside before.
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  6. #226

  7. #227
    I'll just put this out there now: I fully believe that Jay Wilson was told to put the GAH/RMAH in the game and make the game work around it. If you think that Jay Wilson would have actively inserted the GAH/RMAH of his own accord, I fully believe you to have no common sense.

    Jay Wilson's task was to create the game around that base idea and he made an excellent game. The only real problem is the game was, in a lot of people's eyes, forced to revolve around the GAH/RMAH. If you took that one aspect of the game away, it would clearly be natural to have vastly higher drop rates and far more higher quality items dropping.

    Blizzard wanted to try out having a trading hub for the players which they could profit from. That backfired and I do not believe it's Jay Wilson's fault. Then why does Jay Wilson defend it? Because he has to. It's part of his job. He's passionate about the company and the game and he can't just throw his hands up and say that it's shit.

    Instead he tried to compensate as best as he could for the player's sake in future patches, with the additions of Paragon levels and MP. However, it's obvious that he was never allowed to relegate the GAH/RMAH to a defunct position - he's got to keep that in play no matter what.

    How else could you explain someone going from Dawn Of War and Company of Heroes to just suddenly throwing real money transactions into a game? And let's be honest; that is Diablo 3's only major flaw.

  8. #228
    Herald of the Titans Santti's Avatar
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    You guys speak as if Diablo 3 would have been better if Jay would have never touched the game, or Diablo 3 getting better after he leaves. There's not much difference between Diablo 2 and Diablo 3. Both are the same grinding games with different story.

    How would you have made it different? You just shout it should have been different, but how?
    Last edited by Santti; 2013-01-18 at 12:57 PM.

  9. #229
    The Lightbringer Howard Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    I'll just put this out there now: I fully believe that Jay Wilson was told to put the GAH/RMAH in the game and make the game work around it. If you think that Jay Wilson would have actively inserted the GAH/RMAH of his own accord, I fully believe you to have no common sense.

    Jay Wilson's task was to create the game around that base idea and he made an excellent game. The only real problem is the game was, in a lot of people's eyes, forced to revolve around the GAH/RMAH. If you took that one aspect of the game away, it would clearly be natural to have vastly higher drop rates and far more higher quality items dropping.

    Blizzard wanted to try out having a trading hub for the players which they could profit from. That backfired and I do not believe it's Jay Wilson's fault. Then why does Jay Wilson defend it? Because he has to. It's part of his job. He's passionate about the company and the game and he can't just throw his hands up and say that it's shit.

    Instead he tried to compensate as best as he could for the player's sake in future patches, with the additions of Paragon levels and MP. However, it's obvious that he was never allowed to relegate the GAH/RMAH to a defunct position - he's got to keep that in play no matter what.

    How else could you explain someone going from Dawn Of War and Company of Heroes to just suddenly throwing real money transactions into a game? And let's be honest; that is Diablo 3's only major flaw.
    Good post, you may very well be correct about JW being forced to make the game work around the AH. He himself may have hated the idea, which is maybe why he is leaving now: he's sick of acting the scapegoat. I guess we'll probably never know, unless he spills the beans some day.

    Still, I can't manage to feel sympathy for him. Especially after the "fuck that loser" incident.
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  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctifer616 View Post
    Then how can you tell if a game (or anything else is popular)? Diablo 3 biggest issue is hype. Just look at D2 numbers and compare them to D3. D2 sold around 4 million copies, LoD sold about 2 million copies, D3 sold more than 10 million with 6 million just in the first week. D2 fan base wasn't big enough to account for all of D3 sales. There is a ton of people that bought D3 without even knowing what it is about. Just reading some of the early complains from some players where just silly "I have to endlessly farm?", "I have to play the game beyond normal to reach max level?".

    Also, there are people that hated on the game just because everyone else did. There were people that had over 100, 300 and even 1000 hours played and said that the game is crap. Think about this, what kind of human being dose something willingly that they don't enjoy? Why not stop, why not do something else? If I start playing a game and I don't enjoy it, I stop playing it. I would assume every other rational human being would do so. I did the same thing in D2, finished on normal, didn't feel like playing nightmare and hell and simple stopped.
    I think your post is SPOT ON.

    The funny thing is that all people that don't like (some) things in D3 are not even conform to their own ideas of what D3 should be.

    Too hard, too easy, too grindy, not grindy enough, too much AH, too much bind on account (patch 1.07), not enough challenge, too much challenge.


    -examples-

    The on line thing is really, really a laugh these days of 200 million tablet computers and wireless internet everywhere, but still THOUSANDS of 1/10 posts were made on Metacritic because of this hours before the game even launched.

    ----> since there is NO consistency in these so called complaints, I can see only ONE consistent whine: It is cool to tackle the BIG one. Be that Apple in 2013, Microsoft in 1999, IBM in the 80's, WoW since 2006 ...

    Kids need stuff to think they are different (we are not the masses) and simply right now it looks "cool" to piss on Blizzard.

    Just as if there is any significance to hate a game company that sells tons and tons of games people buy.

    You don't like it? Go do something else. I don't like SC2 much, so I don't play it much...

    What you see is puberty and self indulgence. And some never will grow up really.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-18 at 01:26 PM.

  11. #231
    Even if he forced him with a gun to his head to implent the RMAH ... that's not an excuse for every other issue in the game.

    It even begins with how items are designed.
    Diablo2 had an increadable complex system with diferent stats you need far beyond strengh and haste.

    ou had the ability to spent attribute points to determine what items you could wear and what not ... there even were different armor types which had different effects like movement penately and so on.

    You had skillpoints to spend, creating so many different builds and inventing builds.

    Everything in D3 is lackluster ... you drop an item and see by the DPS value if it is an improvement or not ... there is not something like put alot of strength into your sorceress to equip the heaviest armor possible and then tank the monsters while they are standing inside a firewall.


    Diablo2 was complex and offered the ability to experiment and play with the game ... diablo3 is so dull and restricted ...

    Also the RMAH is not the reason why there is not a gamemaking system like diablo2 had ... a list of games with names you could chose from ... a big chatroom you can join to talk to people ... and so on.


    No Jay Wilson is the one to blaim for this game being a fail in every single aspect, it has nothing to do with the RMAH.

  12. #232
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomolithic View Post
    Sorry guy, but you're going to have to work on the construction of your sentences before I read that through.

    Not even trolling you, but I really can't read that and make any sense of it whatsoever.

    EDIT: I probably won't read it even if you do restructure it. I think I get the gist though, and here's my answer. Go play Diablo 2.

    Infracted
    Actually just stared at this in disbelief.

    So, Mr Darsithis, you'll let people get away with verbal attacks on individuals, but you won't allow someone to state that he can't physically read something due to poor sentence structure. And therefore allowing said person (with 19k posts), to go away and get a better understanding of the english language before posting again?
    Don't really give a rats pituti if this gets me banned, but the hypocrisy of mods here is ridiculous.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Talime View Post
    Diablo2 was complex and offered the ability to experiment and play with the game ... diablo3 is so dull and restricted ...
    How can you call D3 restricted when compared to D2 where you had to level a character from scratch to try out a new builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talime View Post
    Everything in D3 is lackluster ... you drop an item and see by the DPS value if it is an improvement or not ... there is not something like put alot of strength into your sorceress to equip the heaviest armor possible and then tank the monsters while they are standing inside a firewall.
    I am actually playing a melee frost Wizard. Is it the optimal build? Nope, is it fun? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talime View Post
    Also the RMAH is not the reason why there is not a gamemaking system like diablo2 had ... a list of games with names you could chose from ... a big chatroom you can join to talk to people ... and so on.
    SC2, WoW and D3, they all have matchmaking, that's they way Battle.net 2 works. You can't blame Jay Wilson for that (assuming you blame him for that).

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Moon View Post
    Good post, you may very well be correct about JW being forced to make the game work around the AH. He himself may have hated the idea, which is maybe why he is leaving now: he's sick of acting the scapegoat. I guess we'll probably never know, unless he spills the beans some day.

    Still, I can't manage to feel sympathy for him. Especially after the "fuck that loser" incident.
    Because of the "Fuck that Loser" comment is why I can't believe Shinzai's post you replyed to.

    Not saying Shinzai is wrong cause he could be wrong but I just highly dough it.
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctifer616 View Post
    Then how can you tell if a game (or anything else is popular)? Diablo 3 biggest issue is hype. Just look at D2 numbers and compare them to D3. D2 sold around 4 million copies, LoD sold about 2 million copies, D3 sold more than 10 million with 6 million just in the first week. D2 fan base wasn't big enough to account for all of D3 sales. There is a ton of people that bought D3 without even knowing what it is about. Just reading some of the early complains from some players where just silly "I have to endlessly farm?", "I have to play the game beyond normal to reach max level?".

    Also, there are people that hated on the game just because everyone else did. There were people that had over 100, 300 and even 1000 hours played and said that the game is crap. Think about this, what kind of human being dose something willingly that they don't enjoy? Why not stop, why not do something else? If I start playing a game and I don't enjoy it, I stop playing it. I would assume every other rational human being would do so. I did the same thing in D2, finished on normal, didn't feel like playing nightmare and hell and simple stopped.
    lol. Diablo 2 and Lod sold much more than 4 million copies. I think you have your sources from Wikipedia and are just unable to read so:

    As of August 29, 2001, Diablo II has sold 4 million copies worldwide.
    Diablo 2 sold 4 mill copies 12 years ago.

    In Fact up to this day Diablo1+2+Lod sold over 17 million copies.

    So please get your facts straight before spewing bullshit.
    Last edited by Belial91; 2013-01-18 at 01:44 PM.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by thomolithic View Post
    Actually just stared at this in disbelief.

    So, Mr Darsithis, you'll let people get away with verbal attacks on individuals, but you won't allow someone to state that he can't physically read something due to poor sentence structure. And therefore allowing said person (with 19k posts), to go away and get a better understanding of the english language before posting again?
    Don't really give a rats pituti if this gets me banned, but the hypocrisy of mods here is ridiculous.
    That's something I stated a long time ago in a thread I even called out a mod and it got me banned for nearly a month.

    Then again I did kinda tell that mod to go eat a.......well you know the rest but the point before it still stands.

    This is not the right time nore place to say it but I do feel the mods just hand out infractions on really stupid posts and not the main ones that need it. thomolithic's post did not break any rules but yet he got infracted......
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  17. #237
    Because with D3 you have to play the way the devs intended it.
    There is a melee skill fpr a Wizard for this sake ... it's not because someone was smart enough to came ofwith this idea after expermimenting ... there is no room for experimenting.

    And for the character leveling for new builds: That was one reason for the longliveity of diablo2 and the reason for the fun you had all the time ... there was a reason to go back to play the game again because you wanted to try something different. And while doing so you also got some new items.

    Sure there was farming like baalruns ... but there was also building up a new character if yu wanted to try something different.



    Like I said you play a melee Wizzard with that one melee skill she has for exactly this sake, it might not be best in terms of DPS because it isn't balanced, but you play it like a dev intended it.



    Matchmaking has its room in SC2 ... but not in WoW or D3 ... in WoW "Matchmaking" is only present in very small situations like random dungeons, lfr or arena ... but you still play in an open world on your server with full chats.

    Diablo3 doesn't have this.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Belial91 View Post
    Diablo 2 sold 4 mill copies 12 years ago.
    Actually 11 years and 4 and a half months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belial91 View Post
    lol. Diablo 2 and Lod sold much more than 4 million copies. I think you have your sources from Wikipedia and are just unable to read so:
    If you have a more exact number please post it. I used those numbers since they are a good part away from it's official release, I doubt that they sold more than 1 million copies after that date, but if I am wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctifer616 View Post
    Actually 11 years and 4 and a half months.



    If you have a more exact number please post it. I used those numbers since they are a good part away from it's official release, I doubt that they sold more than 1 million copies after that date, but if I am wrong, please go ahead and correct me.
    http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Diablo_II
    Which links its sources directly from Vivendi Website


    Lmao "a good part away". You can't be serious. D2 came out 2000. Your sources are from 2001 xD

    By April 2001, Diablo II had become one of the most popular online games of all time. Major factors that contributed to Diablo II's success include what fans found to be addictive hack-and-slash gameplay, and free access to Battle.net. Diablo II may be played as a single player game, multi-player via a LAN, or multi-player via Battle.net, with the last being the most popular. It has also become one of the top thirty best selling computer games ever. Including Diablo II, the Diablo series has sold 17 million copies.[1]
    17 Million

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Moon View Post
    Good post, you may very well be correct about JW being forced to make the game work around the AH. He himself may have hated the idea, which is maybe why he is leaving now: he's sick of acting the scapegoat. I guess we'll probably never know, unless he spills the beans some day.

    Still, I can't manage to feel sympathy for him. Especially after the "fuck that loser" incident.
    https://twitter.com/Angryrobotics/st...10195111280641

    This probably is one of the reasons. He thinks that the Diablo fans are abusing him.

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