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  1. #1

    I don't get it .. (Shadow 5.2 PTR)

    Devouring Plague now deals its damage evenly through its duration.

    can someone Clarify this thing for me ?


    Sick avatar/Signature by Ammeg

  2. #2
    it does shittons of instadamage then a fast dot for 4-5(?) sec. guess the change to its a pure dot for the duration and no burst when you put it up?

  3. #3
    yeah, damage is the same, just the burst is gone

  4. #4
    I don't like latest patch at all. Shadow already has no burst CD and real burst is possible only when we have3 orbs, procs on MS and/or MB. Long set up time and RNG...

  5. #5
    I hope this is going places, otherwise it's nothing else than an already not needed NERF on add fights, or when you're trying to snipe something.
    I bet it has to do with PVP for some reason...

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Its actually a pretty good change. In PvE it means that the dmg is gonna be higher than before, due to our mastery. In PvP it reduces arguably much too high burst potential of the class. PvP dmg will still be enough, since dmg is still delivered in quite a short timeframe. It only means that the high DP dmg can be countered with healing.

    This also opens up for more PvE dmg buffs, since increasing PvE dmg isnt directly tied to more PvP Burst anymore.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    @burk23:

    This also makes it much more susceptible to disease removal in PvP than it has been. While not something Shadow will like, I do approve of more opportunities for skillful play in PvP being added.

  8. #8
    in pvp it'll be a nerf regardless of disease removal.

    Say you have 20% crit, and a 3 orb DP will do 75k dmg upfront and 75k dmg over dot.
    You have a 20% chance do to 150k dmg upfront and then each tick of 75k/7 has its own 20% chance to crit. We'll say 20% of them crit, and round up, so 2.
    Total damage is 150K + 75k/7*2*2 + 75k/7*5 = 246k

    With it all in dot form, each dot tick will be twice as strong, 150k/7, but each has its own individual chance to crit.
    If the same number of dot ticks crit, we are at 193k

    In the long run the total damage would even out yes, but under the assumption that the initial cast would have crit, it is a nerf for that instances burst.

    You can simplify the math by just looking at the upfront half which gets redistributed, assume 5 ticks for simplicity, and assume 100k dmg
    20% crit means 20% of the time that 100k is now 200k
    Distributed out, in order to get it to 200k you need every single tick to crit
    The chance of that is crit chance^number of ticks. So in this simplistic case its .2^5, or .032%. It's worse with the actual number of ticks depending on haste levels, 6-8.

    Edit: I guess this doesn't account for mastery though.
    Add in mastery chance, say 30%. Assume 2 mastery procs in both instances.
    That'll add 43k to the 193k to bring it to 236, and it'll bring the 246 to 268. So 268 vs 236

    In the 2nd case we can treat it just 7 ticks at 20k, so with expected values we'd get 2 crits for 180k total. We'd need 1 extra to crit to keep the damage equal. With 7 ticks at 20%, ev is 1.4 crits, so 2 is already being generous.
    Last edited by Meaks; 2013-01-20 at 08:26 PM.

  9. #9
    You mean if 50% of your damage crits you do mroe dmg?
    No way.
    You're talking about 20% of cases, in 80% of cases the average will be higher because of more crits on the DoTs.

    So...you're just fear mongering basically.

  10. #10
    Single target PvE its a buff. You're getting stronger ticks on the DoT, which is affected by haste whereas the pure damage on the application is not.

    PvP, its a spike damage nerf.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Meaks View Post
    in pvp it'll be a nerf regardless of disease removal.

    Say you have 20% crit, and a 3 orb DP will do 75k dmg upfront and 75k dmg over dot.
    You have a 20% chance do to 150k dmg upfront and then each tick of 75k/7 has its own 20% chance to crit. We'll say 20% of them crit, and round up, so 2.
    Total damage is 150K + 75k/7*2*2 + 75k/7*5 = 246k
    You are assuming that 150k upfront is sure to crit though, which is not the case. Also you cant just round up to 2 dot ticks critting since that makes it a 2/7 crit chance which is 29% which is a huge difference. Since it is only 20% chance to crit, you cant use 150k, but instead use (75*1.2)k = 90k.

    90k + (75k*1.2) = 180k

    After the 5.2 change, it will simply be:

    150k*(1.2) = 180k

    Although damage did not seem to change, it is still a buff for PvE because haste and mastery will benefit the entire damage after 5.2, whereas before it only benefit the second half (the dot half). But i'm sure everyone figured that part out already.
    Last edited by zsun; 2013-01-21 at 08:05 AM.

  12. #12
    It may be a small buff to single target sustained damage, but what I like about how DP is now is that you can kind of burst adds on boss encounters with it, I mean, its not like we have much else we can do to burst something with a few globals. I wonder if this is there way of addressing shadow orbs not really scaling well.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ircien View Post
    Devouring Plague now deals its damage evenly through its duration.

    can someone Clarify this thing for me ?
    DP right now does 2 portions of damage. One instant upon casting, and the other as a dot. As of next patch all damage will be as a dot, the instant damage will be baked into the dot. This means spriests will have even less burst.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thehealbus View Post
    I wonder if this is there way of addressing shadow orbs not really scaling well.
    Oh, good point. 50% more haste scaling on that portion of the rotation.

  15. #15
    This change makes me hopefull, not only is it a slight pve buff(of witch we still soarly need more). But it's also groundwork for more potential buffs, since we dont do that much burst after it.

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thehealbus View Post
    It may be a small buff to single target sustained damage, but what I like about how DP is now is that you can kind of burst adds on boss encounters with it, I mean, its not like we have much else we can do to burst something with a few globals. I wonder if this is there way of addressing shadow orbs not really scaling well.
    Shadoworbs scale just perfectly fine. Its true that the Orb generation itself doesnt scale, but the result of the Orb generation (Devouring Plague) scales with haste, mastery and crit. Actually since DP is now a pure dot, it scales better than before with haste and mastery. So there is no reason to think shadoworb generation would have to scale with haste, cause then Devouring plague would double dip with haste.

  17. #17
    Grunt Rubbaducky's Avatar
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    Hmm I really did like the direct damage portion of DP (especially when it crit ), but if it means it's somewhat getting an overall buff, I guess I can't complain.

    Now just to get MB CD reduced with Haste.. :3 I can see that potentially being a late tier set bonus.

  18. #18
    It does mean the haste breakpoint for extra ticks on DP will become a larger factor in gearing than before - gaining an extra tick will be quite a large bump for DP.
    Assuming of course it can still gain extra ticks...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by zsun View Post
    You are assuming that 150k upfront is sure to crit though, which is not the case. Also you cant just round up to 2 dot ticks critting since that makes it a 2/7 crit chance which is 29% which is a huge difference. Since it is only 20% chance to crit, you cant use 150k, but instead use (75*1.2)k = 90k.

    90k + (75k*1.2) = 180k

    After the 5.2 change, it will simply be:

    150k*(1.2) = 180k

    Although damage did not seem to change, it is still a buff for PvE because haste and mastery will benefit the entire damage after 5.2, whereas before it only benefit the second half (the dot half). But i'm sure everyone figured that part out already.
    Thank god someone here took a math class. I was about to cry at the other post. To further add mastery to your equation @30%

    5.1:
    (75k*1.2)+(75k*1.2*1.3)= 207k

    5.2:
    150k*1.2*1.3= 234k

  20. #20
    Haste scaling for DP is mostly irrelevant outside of breakpoints. The change will increase the value of getting an extra tick and that's about it.

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