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  1. #21
    He says it's not his place to judge the decision making of other guilds and then he goes on to do just that! It's clear that he should be thinking about his own integrity before questioning that of others.

  2. #22
    I don't see extending as cheating at all, not even in the slightest. More or less in this case it was used as a tool to skip progression, extending the raid lock wasn't cheating, "skipping" Tsulong was. If UT wanted to extend again next tier I would have zero problems with it, because at the end of the day, it is what cost them server first Sha and server first WotE.

    I can kind of see how it might be taken that way in the post made by my GM after a quick read. But he is only saying that extending the lock is doing nothing but putting their members at a disadvantage which we all agree on. He does refer to extending as disingenuous which is an opinion and of course you do not have to agree with that. I believe it would help if more of you understood the history between UT and Demise but at the end of the day none of us will gain enough from that story to make it worth while. We've been very spirited competitors up until this point but it is hard to keep motivated once you know that you are up against a guild who will go beyond(in our opinions, and obviously theirs too if you watched that video clip/looked at the logs with 100million less damage done unstable sha, nothing in the first day phase at all) the TOS to finish a boss.

    I'm sure when UT goes back to Tsulong they wont have much issue earning a kill. And we are well aware that we would of lost rank one on Wowprogress even if they took till early Feb to do Sha, the holidays will do that to you. All of this aside, they do have some very good players and it is sad to of seen it go to that level. I would of wanted better for them but sometimes you get caught up in the moment and lose track of what's right and what's wrong.
    Last edited by Vishiz; 2013-01-18 at 10:15 AM.

  3. #23
    Extending lockouts has advantages and disadvantages like most everything in life, it's not cheating. However, I don't agree with their method of doing Tsulong/extending to not have to do that fight. They are obv shitters and will get their own.

  4. #24
    "Go beyond the TOS to finish a boss" Please, elaborate on that. At this point you nor your GM have brought any proof to the table to show that guild did anything. All you are doing is resorting to childish defamation. If you believed they did something wrong, you could have just reported them and moved on. Instead, you are posting ambiguous things about "understanding the history" between you and a guild that seems to have consistently beat you to justify your crying.

  5. #25
    im reading it now, but what is up with all the US XX kills?, how about world(us/eu) XX?............jez

  6. #26
    Euro guilds too much better I believe the Sha kill we had was world 76th

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    im reading it now, but what is up with all the US XX kills?, how about world(us/eu) XX?............jez
    Lots of American guilds prefer to compare themselves to other American guilds, maybe because US guilds generally have lower world rankings than EU guilds. When BL/vodka fail to get a World First, they always have to mention "US first".

  8. #28
    I think they only compare to other US guilds because saying world 294 isn't really impressive and most people they are catering too don't intend on playing on EU servers

  9. #29
    Well he was rigth in one thing in his blog - the race is over and they lost to UT whatever method they choose to achieve victory - in the end of the day we are talking about a computer game -_- they finished it first u finised it after them ... and it had non effect on your life -_- i guess they reported UT for this to GMs but got answear like "meh we dont care" so they came here to seek justice /shrug

  10. #30
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    Hello MMO-Champ community,

    As we wrapped up this tier with a fairly decent rank given being an Alliance guild on a Horde dominated server (0 Galleon kills until well after it was useless loot) our GM took the time to reflect back on this tier as a whole - reflecting on integrity of top tier WoW guilds and his overall thoughts on the tier. We play on a server that as a whole has had some pretty decent competition and this tier was no exception. We embraced the challenge of overcoming the gear deficit early on during progression and pulled together to come out ahead of the competition for 2/3 realm firsts (WotE and Sha).

    During the progression push in ToES we positioned ourselves in such a way that we would be ahead of the curve, UT had not killed anything while we had a couple Lei Shi kills and a couple of Protector kills in favour of them taking realm first Empress before the holidays hit. When raiding resumed in a more regular fashion after the holidays the race was back on to us to kill Empress in a timely manner then push through Tsulong and get a jumpstart on Sha.
    What ended up happening in the few weeks following was not expected and is explained in the post linked prior (WoL screenshots+audio).

    Other guilds have done similar things in the past (TM/Gamble come to mind this tier) and there were repercussions for what happened. When we learned of what had POTENTIALLY happened at first I was sceptical but was soon being shown more and more things that would ultimately change my mind on the matter.

    What does guild integrity mean to you (be you a raider yourself, a casual, anything)? What does this say on Blizzard’s behalf regarding exploiting (something that they have cracked down on before)?

    I’m interested to hear what you think.
    Makes a thread about integrity and shames another guild in the process........seems legit.
    Also kicks off the thread with some excuse making for getting beat in in early tier progression and uses galleon(or galleons potential drops) as a scapegoat. It's widely known the majority of raiding guilds didn't enjoy galleon gear for early progression at all.
    Last edited by kushlol; 2013-01-18 at 11:35 AM.

    Made by dubbelbasse

  11. #31
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Extending a lockout =/= cheating and it's certainly not disingenuous, not even close.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    Lots of American guilds prefer to compare themselves to other American guilds, maybe because US guilds generally have lower world rankings than EU guilds. When BL/vodka fail to get a World First, they always have to mention "US first".
    Man, you guys didn't even get to the second page without devolving the discussion into petty US vs. EU nonsense. Good job.

    Introducing MMOC's Law of Terrible Internet Arguments:

    As any discussion about guilds on the MMO-Champ forums progresses, the probability it will degrade into a bitchfit between US and EU players increases exponentially.

    That said, this whole thread really seems to be about a butthurt GM being very unhappy about being beaten by a competing guild on the same server. Integrity is one thing, but naming and shaming a guild for the sole purpose of making it seem like their legitimate kills and progression were any less legitimate is just as bad.


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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Man, you guys didn't even get to the second page without devolving the discussion into petty US vs. EU nonsense. Good job.

    Introducing MMOC's Law of Terrible Internet Arguments:

    As any discussion about guilds on the MMO-Champ forums progresses, the probability it will degrade into a bitchfit between US and EU players increases exponentially.
    I don't see any discussion about "petty US vs EU nonsense". A guy asked why US guilds always post their regional rank while hardly anybody in other region even cares about regional rankings, I answered with my best guess at why and gave an example of 2 top guilds who always post their US rank when the number is better. Not bashing, just giving my best guess at WHY US guilds like to use their US rank instead of world rank. I might be wrong with my guess, but don't accuse me of starting a flamefest between US and EU players.

  14. #34
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    That said, this whole thread really seems to be about a butthurt GM being very unhappy about being beaten by a competing guild on the same server. Integrity is one thing, but naming and shaming a guild for the sole purpose of making it seem like their legitimate kills and progression were any less legitimate is just as bad
    In full agreement here ,my mind is still a little blown that they view raid extension as cheating. I guess people will make up any excuse though to validate why they got beat.

    Still laughing that a tool made available by blizzard for everyone to use is being considered cheating or sketchy/. The OP may experience G-force jumping off that high horse.
    Last edited by kushlol; 2013-01-18 at 12:16 PM.

    Made by dubbelbasse

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos
    I don't see any discussion about "petty US vs EU nonsense". A guy asked why US guilds always post their regional rank while hardly anybody in other region even cares about regional rankings, I answered with my best guess at why and gave an example of 2 top guilds who always post their US rank when the number is better. Not bashing, just giving my best guess at WHY US guilds like to use their US rank instead of world rank. I might be wrong with my guess, but don't accuse me of starting a flamefest between US and EU players.
    Look at the post right above the one I first quoted. EU and US has absolutely zero relevance to this topic, regardless of the context. And you can't make broad, generalized statements like "US guilds generally have lower rankings than EU guilds" without inciting the exact US vs. EU stupidity I was criticizing.


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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Look at the post right above the one I first quoted. EU and US has absolutely zero relevance to this topic, regardless of the context. And you can't make broad, generalized statements like "US guilds generally have lower rankings than EU guilds" without inciting the exact US vs. EU stupidity I was criticizing.
    I should've been more precise, true. "There are less US guilds in the top 40 than EU guilds by far(9 US, 28 EU for T14), and that has been the case for a very long time". Also, you're the only person who was offended by it enough to post about it. Now I'll stop, to avoid the derailing you are worried about.

  17. #37
    So not having unstable sha's spawn in day phase is ok? I don't think people read the whole thing properly...

    No one is claiming raid extending is cheating, the claim is a different guild exploiting tsulong HM by not having Unstable Sha's spawn. Not sure how that is cleaver use of game mechanics when you do something to make them not spawn at all.

  18. #38
    Exploiting Tsulong is clearly a bad thing but I'm baffled as to why anyone would think extending a lockout is cheating, when they are using it for the exact purpose that Blizzard implemented it.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LudaKrishna View Post
    So not having unstable sha's spawn in day phase is ok? I don't think people read the whole thing properly...

    No one is claiming raid extending is cheating, the claim is a different guild exploiting tsulong HM by not having Unstable Sha's spawn. Not sure how that is cleaver use of game mechanics when you do something to make them not spawn at all.
    It was pretty apparent what was being implied in his guilds " tier summary" he linked...guessing you didn't read that.

    Made by dubbelbasse

  20. #40
    Some people put integrity above all else, others just want to win. Something can be said for both, in my opinion.
    Originally Posted by Tidycat
    Has anybody ever thought that the people that are leaving isnt because the game is bad? 300,000 people. Can we assume that some of those people have since died (im not too sure how they canceled if they died, but whatever),

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