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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirv3s View Post
    Elite Tyrannical Gladiator’s gear can only be purchased with Conquest Points after 27,000 Conquest Points have been earned for the season.

    Why is the advantage of being skilled removed? Why does Blizzard make rated arenas & BGs another place to die to boredom... everybody will hit the CP required for elite-gear at the same time, removing the whole idea of it.

    I don't understand, if you go and start PVP in the middle/end of the season, why is it a hypothesis that you should be able to get to the top? I just started to play PVP a month ago, no problem and easily to +2.2k rating.

    Eventually, the whole game will consist of endless farming and all the skill-based requirements being removed.
    No. Ever since that stupid 2.2k threshold was introduced in Cataclysm people would go for 2.2k and sit there for the entire season for the sake of gear. How is that competitive?

    And how about those that just want to to BGs? I PvP for the sake of PvPing, and getting rewarded for that is somewhat nice I guess. And listen very carefully: The word 'elite' doesn't tell anybody a flippin bit about your skill. It says you've managed to reach 2.2k

  2. #262
    Brewmaster Notos's Avatar
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    Catching up will still be a slow process (grinding out X weeks' worth of conquest), but it's still a huge improvement from now, so yay!
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  3. #263
    everyone who is QQing about the pvp gear needs to question their skill in pvp if all they do is pvp for gear. I pvp for Rank, Achievements, and titles. When you get your first rank 1 title everything else doesn't matter.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirv3s View Post
    Elite Tyrannical Gladiator’s gear can only be purchased with Conquest Points after 27,000 Conquest Points have been earned for the season.

    Why is the advantage of being skilled removed? Why does Blizzard make rated arenas & BGs another place to die to boredom... everybody will hit the CP required for elite-gear at the same time, removing the whole idea of it.

    I don't understand, if you go and start PVP in the middle/end of the season, why is it a hypothesis that you should be able to get to the top? I just started to play PVP a month ago, no problem and easily to +2.2k rating.

    Eventually, the whole game will consist of endless farming and all the skill-based requirements being removed.
    I feel like it isn't removing skill.. 27k conquest is still 13 weeks of minimum RBG cap. ~3 months to get elite gear. The season will be nearly over by the time you reach the cap, let alone get any of the gear. You will need to have a decent rating in order to reach the 27k cap with ample time left in the season.

  5. #265
    The Lightbringer aikoyamamato's Avatar
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    I went to ArenaJunkies fully expecting massive QQ. I was pleasantly surprised. These are welcome changes to most of the AJ community, according to responses in the 5.2 PvP changes thread. There are a lot of really good players there, so I think that says something.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadOwnz View Post
    everyone who is QQing about the pvp gear needs to question their skill in pvp if all they do is pvp for gear. I pvp for Rank, Achievements, and titles. When you get your first rank 1 title everything else doesn't matter.
    Most of the complaints are veiled attempts to complain about this completely killing rating selling. 8 or 9 people with T2 upgraded weapons have been making bank this season and most of Catas seasons and before that it was done via 3's mostly. You have to be relatively skilled at the game to be able to pull it off, but you can't go on any high pop server without seeing some guy spamming about selling rating.


    There is an argument to be made that perhaps they could put some more achievements/aesthetics for those that really do climb the ladder (expand a bit on the Gladiator rewards and such) but the arguments trying to defend the current status quo are laughable at best.

  7. #267
    Anyone else agree that arena should just be done naked?

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    But these aren't real Gladiators that are complaining. It's the barely 2200 crowd that can only achieve elite gear and that's their crowning achievement in the game, so now they are hissing at everyone because they don't get to -feel special-. Seriously, feeling special. Just reading that makes me laugh hard.
    This, pretty much. Want to feel special? Earn 2.2k anyway and earn that special green text that shows how much better you are than the rest of the world. Jk, Wintraders ruined any prestige 2.2k had long ago.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  9. #269
    I thought the whole point of rated pvp was to go after the end of season rewards like the mounts and titles and not the gear.

  10. #270
    In the next season if you have around 2.2k (~2700 points a week) rating you will unlock t2 gear in 10 weeks, but if you just do few arenas a week (1800 points, assuming no rated BGs) it will take you 15 weeks to unlock t2 gear.
    Assuming pvp seasons change roughly every 5 months, the latter way will get you t2 in the end of the season.

    True pvp players that care about skill play for high rating, not for t2 gear.

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  11. #271
    Legendary! Arbs's Avatar
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    So PvP is back to the old ways of Skill > Gear, I like these changes. PvP could actually be fun now and maybe even put it self on the right track for some sort of balance. Maybe this way we will see new pvpers arise from the shadows and these people who sit on Rank 1 will have to continue to defend it and not just sit on it when they put in the least amount of effort in to it.

    I can now do BGs all I want and still be able to aquire gear without having to do Arenas, I very happy with this change. I always have hated Arenas there the biggest mistake added to this game and have cause so many problems for the game, Glad i don't have to ever touch them unless I wanna do them for fun.

    Great change here, very excited for it.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-01-19 at 03:38 PM.

  12. #272
    On frostmourne you can't go 20 seconds without someone spaming 2200+ carries for cash. This is not an exaggeration just log on and see alliance side trade. Its pretty obvious why there is some resistance to the changes. Looks like a few people will have to get real jobs.

  13. #273
    What did pvpers expect was going to happen after years of decline participation? The upper management of wow probably wanted better retention and more participation in order to justify the extra cost of running rank pvp. I'm not going to look up the thread, but a player on the wow forums did the math and showed that the number of glads overall since season three has been declining up until about halfway cataclysm. This last move by Blizzard will be the nail in the coffin for ratings on gear and it's complete failure. Blizzard probably did the calculations and figure that having a long grind was better for retaining customers and keeping pvp rank active. Although based on what I seen in swtor pvp gear that rank rated, but only has a variation in color isn't going to motivate people. Realistic you would need a complete different armor design and not just a different color.

  14. #274
    Kinda hilarious at all the people complaining about this change because they want to dominate undergeared people forever.

    Reminds me of all the no skilled scrubs who made twinks back in the day in the level 19 bracket because being overpowered there with their grossly overpowered twink gear was the only way they could win in PVP and they didn't touch it at level cap because they didnt stand a chance. Glad they have taken so many steps toward killing twinking, and glad they have made this change as well.
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  15. #275
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    I don't see how this is removing competition. All its doing is shifting competitive pvp so it revolves around prestige, titles, and other prizes instead of all of that plus gear (in theory). They took out the weapon requirements but the prestige, titles, and other prizes are still there. So compete for those.

    As far as it being about farming, I feel like that's what the game is. It's all one big grind. You grind to hit max level, grind to get all your gear, grind your way to better ratings if you can.

    On paper, the changes seem okay but I don't think it will be nearly as bad as the people who are against it are making it out to be. And I also don't think it'll be nearly as good as the people who are for it are making it out to be.

    -removal of rating req. seems fine
    -think we need to see how the MMR change plays out before we make judgments one way or another.
    -the catch up seems like a good change for alts.
    -not sold on the 27,000 conquest point threshold

    I'm all for skill being better than gear but maybe I'm blind and misread something. How are these changes going to lessen the gear gap? There seems to be a lot of people convinced that these changes will level the playing field but I just don't see it (and yes, I realize the rating for weps is gone).

    It could end up that instead of seeing trade chat filled with offers of 2200 carries in rbgs, we'll see offers of high conquest caps. Its more long-term so maybe fewer people will do that but if they think the price is reasonable from week to week maybe they'll do it anyways. I don't know, I guess I can see players exploiting for high conquest caps the same way they do now for T2. And if that ends up being the case, then the gear gap will still be there. Players like having an edge and some will do whatever they can get away with to get it.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  16. #276
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Blimey, this thread is starting to convince me there's hope for humanity yet! Also noticed the same on AJ, definitely a welcomed change to anyone with more than two braincells.
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  17. #277
    If skill is an advantage then equal gear shouldn't be a problem. Bad players will still take longer to gear out mind you.
    "Warriors make you sap, Paladins let you sap."

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    I'm all for skill being better than gear but maybe I'm blind and misread something. How are these changes going to lessen the gear gap? There seems to be a lot of people convinced that these changes will level the playing field but I just don't see it (and yes, I realize the rating for weps is gone).

    It could end up that instead of seeing trade chat filled with offers of 2200 carries in rbgs, we'll see offers of high conquest caps. Its more long-term so maybe fewer people will do that but if they think the price is reasonable from week to week maybe they'll do it anyways. I don't know, I guess I can see players exploiting for high conquest caps the same way they do now for T2. And if that ends up being the case, then the gear gap will still be there. Players like having an edge and some will do whatever they can get away with to get it.
    Do the math.

    High rated players will take about 9 weeks to get their T2 weapon. Low rated players will get 2.2k CP a week if they do RBGs, or 1.8k if they do not. So, let's say PvP players earns 2k a week on average. These players will take 14 weeks to get their T2. That's a 5 week disparity -- a little over 1 month where high rated players have a weapon advantage -- as opposed to this season, where gear disparity will exist for 4 months (most high rated players got their T2 approximately 3 weeks after the season started on Oct 2nd) if season 12 ends mid-February.

  19. #279
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mican17 View Post
    Do the math.

    High rated players will take about 9 weeks to get their T2 weapon. Low rated players will get 2.2k CP a week if they do RBGs, or 1.8k if they do not. So, let's say PvP players earns 2k a week on average. These players will take 14 weeks to get their T2. That's a 5 week disparity -- a little over 1 month where high rated players have a weapon advantage -- as opposed to this season, where gear disparity will exist for 4 months (most high rated players got their T2 approximately 3 weeks after the season started on Oct 2nd) if season 12 ends mid-February.
    Yeah, I get the math. I went on world of wargraphs and saw some ridiculously high rbg ratings and so thought they could get ridiculously high conquest caps. Didn't realize it caps out at 3850. The underlying point that I was trying to get to is that its still easier to gear from RBGs and maybe they should change that. Seems really easy to get rating and therefore points in rbgs.
    Last edited by shell; 2013-01-19 at 10:50 AM.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    I went to ArenaJunkies fully expecting massive QQ. I was pleasantly surprised. These are welcome changes to most of the AJ community, according to responses in the 5.2 PvP changes thread. There are a lot of really good players there, so I think that says something.
    Most of the ppl on AJ are either good pvpers or trying to be. Of course better gear helps but being a good player helps more. The ppl that are going to be most upset by this are the bad players that will now have ppl out gearing them that wouldn't have before or the ppl that are right at 2200 and used to get to that threshold and out gear ppl just below them. Ppl that are saying giving everybody a chance, even if it is a long shot for some, to get the same gear removes skill are mistaken. Ppl playing in gear that doesn't have as big of a gap in quality will help raise the skill bar for everybody not remove it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 03:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Blimey, this thread is starting to convince me there's hope for humanity yet! Also noticed the same on AJ, definitely a welcomed change to anyone with more than two braincells.
    1 more then the average BG and world griefer has and the only ones really QQing over this.
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