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  1. #301
    isnt the rating still going to be there and they are just removing the gear requirement point caps or w/e?

  2. #302
    Brewmaster slackjawsix's Avatar
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    i like the change because if someone joins the season late they wont be struggling to climb over 2200 rating its not always about skill getting to 2200
    i live by one motto! "lolwut?"

  3. #303
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Counting all changes together, it seems like everything points into one direction....
    Opening the doors, encouraging more people to participate in PvP. So apparently, there's a chance that active PvP suffered from even more lack of interest (or at least the same) of the playing community than dungeons and raiding has. And as with the PVE part, it's also very bad business practice to maintain a high amount of development expenses for PvP for just a small fraction of people. The solution to encourage more people to participate seems rather logic.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Opening the doors, encouraging more people to participate in PvP. So apparently, there's a chance that active PvP suffered from even more lack of interest (or at least the same) of the playing community than dungeons and raiding has.
    That's what I was thinking (the density of bots was a symptom, caused by lots of non-bots giving up PvP).

    And the cause they gave was just what I thought too: the large gear gap in PvP between dreadful, malevolent, and T2 gear, which they were forced to include because of the large intra-tier gear inflation in PvE.

    The different parts of the game are tied together, and when they change one, it can break others. The PvE changes broke PvP, and they're having to tweak to try to make it work again.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    and no doubt some of the whining comes from people who pay to get 2200. They would have to pay more than once in this new system.. but the wintrading in RBGs problem still has to be solved too.
    100% agree, not sorry to see boosters having to pass out resumes in RL.

    i dont really care what happens in RGBs though...although ive heard it's a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  6. #306
    Dreadlord Gouca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Counting all changes together, it seems like everything points into one direction....
    Opening the doors, encouraging more people to participate in PvP. So apparently, there's a chance that active PvP suffered from even more lack of interest (or at least the same) of the playing community than dungeons and raiding has. And as with the PVE part, it's also very bad business practice to maintain a high amount of development expenses for PvP for just a small fraction of people. The solution to encourage more people to participate seems rather logic.
    How does it discourage people to play PvP if 2.2k players just get a different colour set as a reward?

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirv3s View Post
    How does it discourage people to play PvP if 2.2k players just get a different colour set as a reward?
    Did you misphrase that question? It makes no sense in the context of what he was saying.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  8. #308
    only thing im going to miss is bragging with my elite on my monk and bashing 100k crits on low geared

  9. #309
    to get gear to do better needing to kill people with that better gear should not be. sadly if any part of PvP is a grind to you why do it it is not like at some point you wont be fighting other players it starts as fighting other players and ends with fighting other players.

    but to start by fighting players with better gear then you needing to win to get better gear is just plain stupid now if wining gets you the gear faster and "cool perks" like title and mount cool. but i should not log in see a team with 2200 weps and go well fuck this i am not healing so my team just dies fast so i can get a game i have a chance of winning. even now you still need to win to get points it is just even if you just stay at 2000 the whole time you will get the top weps and then you get to try to push 2200 for the title and mount on equal footing. not this out classed shit we have now. + the pvp rank required enchants i like the idea of.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Counting all changes together, it seems like everything points into one direction....
    Opening the doors, encouraging more people to participate in PvP. So apparently, there's a chance that active PvP suffered from even more lack of interest (or at least the same) of the playing community than dungeons and raiding has. And as with the PVE part, it's also very bad business practice to maintain a high amount of development expenses for PvP for just a small fraction of people. The solution to encourage more people to participate seems rather logic.
    This season is by far the one with the lowest amount of people playing. Thats probably the only reason they decided to do something.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    Now a clicker keyboard turner will just have the best gear if he farms enough.
    and what exactly is bad about that?

    This way the clicker keyboard turner will have more fun than he can have now because he doesnt feel quite as helpless. Still helpless but not quite as.

    And I will have more fun because after I killed him there will be no doubt I was the better man and not just the guy with the better gear.

    It's an awesome change for anybody who likes the actual PvP aspect of PvP.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazdum View Post
    This season is by far the one with the lowest amount of people playing. Thats probably the only reason they decided to do something.
    I find it interesting that their solution really doesn't address the biggest problem: that casual PvP, in non-rated BGs, will still reward mostly terrible gear. They're expecting people to grind out rated BGs and arena, forms of participation that require players manually create groups and teams. In contrast, there are two levels of solo-tiered PvE gear (from heroic 5 mans and LFR).

    To really solve the problem, they needed some equivalent of LFR for PvP. I'm imagining a variety of rated BG that you queue for solo. Now the problem is making this work.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    If you are so skilled you can beat them with the same gear. True pvp games have no gear or gear scaled to the same levels.
    /thread 10char


    Quote Originally Posted by Chareoss View Post
    I for one, do not agree with the choices they have made simply to keep people playing longer. The whole reason the drop rates are so low and loot is based on RNG is to keep us raiding longer and our subscriptions ticking.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirv3s View Post
    Why is the advantage of being skilled removed?
    Pve'rs have been asking this question to blizzard since burning crusade introduced wellfare badge epics.

    glad to see that pvp is finally getting the same treatment pve'rs have been getting for 3 1/2 expansions.

    those as you probably call them on ventrillo "scrub" players pay 14.99 just like you do. and they pay to have fun. Not to be your content and see the graveyard 80% of the match (other 20% is them in the gy being farmed).

    blizzard's fix for this is the same as their approach to the pve gear rift prior to said wellfare epics.

    and now a video from when pvp was actually fun.

    Last edited by Arteous; 2013-01-21 at 06:59 PM.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    If you are so skilled you can beat them with the same gear.
    Agreed but...

    True pvp games have no gear or gear scaled to the same levels.
    ...is no true Scotsman.

    Almost every player versus player game in existence doesn't contain long grind which give an artificial, insane advantage. I don't understand why it is such an accepted phenomenon in WoW and a few other MMORPGs (definitely not all).
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirv3s View Post
    I don't understand, if you go and start PVP in the middle/end of the season, why is it a hypothesis that you should be able to get to the top? I just started to play PVP a month ago, no problem and easily to +2.2k rating.
    Not everyone is as awesome as you are. You should be proud of your awesomeness and don't bother with that gear other can get. Because you, my fried, will still be so awesome.

    On the other hand, the game is not made "for awesome PvPers only", so they finally thought "let's do something for the non-awesome people and help them by trying to alleviate the gear gap". Because whatever awesome someone is, someone geared 1 tier above will shit on his head with all the "skill is above gear" crap

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 07:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Almost every player versus player game in existence doesn't contain long grind which give an artificial, insane advantage. I don't understand why it is such an accepted phenomenon in WoW and a few other MMORPGs (definitely not all).
    It's really simple. From Blizzard's point of view, gear farming is "content". The players (most of them) see it as "progress". I think it sucks too.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Arteous View Post
    Pve'rs have been asking this question to blizzard since burning crusade introduced wellfare badge epics.

    glad to see that pvp is finally getting the same treatment pve'rs have been getting for 3 1/2 expansions.

    those as you probably call them on ventrillo "scrub" players pay 14.99 just like you do. and they pay to have fun. Not to be your content and see the graveyard 80% of the match (other 20% is them in the gy being farmed).

    blizzard's fix for this is the same as their approach to the pve gear rift prior to said wellfare epics.

    and now a video from when pvp was actually fun.

    1 shotting ppl yup that sure is where we need to take pvp. Nothing like making ppl use a end game pve wpn to play cheat mode pvp.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  18. #318
    Brewmaster Anium's Avatar
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    don't care still farm scrub nubs no matter

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Almost every player versus player game in existence doesn't contain long grind which give an artificial, insane advantage. I don't understand why it is such an accepted phenomenon in WoW and a few other MMORPGs (definitely not all).
    That's true for older (read: more obscure, less mainstream) games, less so for more recent ones. One of the best examples is the CoD series:

    CoD 2 is awesome. Automatic weapons have heavy recoil and low accuracy so they're balanced against others and the only "grind" there is is that you gain levels through kills (reset after every match) which give you an additional grenade and, at the highest level, an occasional airstrike (which is stupid, but not too gamebreaking).

    The newer CoD games are pure garbage. Automatic weapons have little to no spray so you can just sprint around and kill stuff shooting from the hip (since all the kids are playing it with a fucking gamepad; how else would it work?). You have to grind levels and unlock weapons (e.g. when you want to play a sniper you start with a half-automatic rifle with basically no zoom and play against snipers that have 6x zoom scopes) and you also unlock several I-Win-Buttons like homing explosives, half-automatic grenade launchers, air strikes and helicopter runs that give you guaranteed kills no matter your skill level. Even knifing is a dick move in those games since it's One-Hit-Kill and you move insanely fast without heavy weapons.

    And this is true for most shooters.

    WoW has created something similar in the context of MMORPGs, but whether the players have simply been conditioned to its junk PvP or if it's just targeting the lowest common denominator (broader audience, similar reason why shitty music, writing etc. is generally more successful than decent counterparts) I'm not sure. Possibly both.

    It would seem that decent PvP itself doesn't attract the masses (anymore?).

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Feranor View Post
    That's true for older (read: more obscure, less mainstream) games, less so for more recent ones. One of the best examples is the CoD series:

    CoD 2 is awesome. Automatic weapons have heavy recoil and low accuracy so they're balanced against others and the only "grind" there is is that you gain levels through kills (reset after every match) which give you an additional grenade and, at the highest level, an occasional airstrike (which is stupid, but not too gamebreaking).

    The newer CoD games are pure garbage. Automatic weapons have little to no spray so you can just sprint around and kill stuff shooting from the hip (since all the kids are playing it with a fucking gamepad; how else would it work?). You have to grind levels and unlock weapons (e.g. when you want to play a sniper you start with a half-automatic rifle with basically no zoom and play against snipers that have 6x zoom scopes) and you also unlock several I-Win-Buttons like homing explosives, half-automatic grenade launchers, air strikes and helicopter runs that give you guaranteed kills no matter your skill level. Even knifing is a dick move in those games since it's One-Hit-Kill and you move insanely fast without heavy weapons.

    And this is true for most shooters.

    WoW has created something similar in the context of MMORPGs, but whether the players have simply been conditioned to its junk PvP or if it's just targeting the lowest common denominator (broader audience, similar reason why shitty music, writing etc. is generally more successful than decent counterparts) I'm not sure. Possibly both.

    It would seem that decent PvP itself doesn't attract the masses (anymore?).
    It seems to be an invention by Activion-Blizzard, and it seems to be adopted by other games. Competitors study WoW, and realize why players get hooked on it.

    But players who played WoW at serious levels and quit WoW, or had a burn out, start to realize how the game works. Heck I realized while playing WoW.

    This is also why every time I read about someone wanted a "WoW killer" I am like "oh please, I hope they're not going to copy these parts of WoW"

    Also, my statement is true in the traditional sense of gaming. Quake didn't have this nonsense CoD has, and neither did CS. Games from the past 2000 years neither. But also, AFAIK, the CoD series default builds still allow a player to win. A low level vs high level or a recently dinged level 90 has no chance versus a full mal.

    There's also a lot of games which enforce ladder very well. SC2 for example. WoT for example (everyone's win rating being 50/50).
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

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