1. #1

    AMR with my SimCraft'd stat weights is telling me to lose 15% mastery for 15% haste?

    Wonderlube- Ele shaman (Illidan)

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Yes, it seems right. Even at my Shaman's ilvl, simcraft says haste is the best single-target stat, and most top ele shaman stack haste up to 40+%
    I know the sticky says 'figure it out your damn self' in the stat priorities section, but a quick reforge plot of your character says you'll gain ~3k dps if you trade 5k mastery for haste.

  3. #3
    So I should reforge into more mastery for fights that have adds a majority of the time, or at crucial points?
    Wonderlube- Ele shaman (Illidan)

  4. #4
    I'll answer ur query in a few different ways.

    1. Yes haste is better.

    2. Don't just get weights and do a full reforge, if you can't use plots; If haste > mastery do a couple of mastery to haste forges and re sim. If haste is still higher do again, keep track of the dps output as well.

    3. Full mastery and full haste forges aren't that much different single target and mastery is significantly better on aoe at high gear levels so just go mastery if aoe strength is important in your group.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal
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    I would not use AMR and instead just use the addon reforge lite since it does the job just as well or even better, as for haste vs mastery i would say that you are supposed to keep them equal and not go over board with either however i do not play elemental very much so don't quote me on that.
    Louis <Vanguard> - Kassak EU
    Exphs (Alt) - Silvermoon EU

  6. #6
    kind of got the same problem which really confuses me... if i sim my toon and put the scale factors to AMR its telling me to lose 17% haste but only gain 7% mastery an 1700 int.... i really dont know what to do anymore... would cost me alot to change it all (and maybe back again if its not good)..... gnaah ^^

    scale factors:
    int 5.14 / Hit 5.35 / crit 1.90 / haste 1.71 / mastery 2.15 (Ranking: Hit > Int > Mastery > Crit > Haste)
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Yoshiio/simple

    its only my 2nd specc but since i have to DPS alot of fights i want to do as best as possible :///
    Last edited by yoshioo; 2013-08-13 at 04:10 PM.

  7. #7
    Yoshioo, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Everything Mr. Robot does is math based on the stat weights. However, SimC gives you stat weights based on your current gear (plus tiny changes to stats). So by the time you optimize, it's possible SimC would give you new stat weights.

    Your best bet is to do this:
    1. Put your custom weights into Mr. Robot. Click optimize.
    2. Click the 'export' button on our site and grab the SimC code.
    3. Go to the Simulate tab of SimC and paste our code. Click Simulate.
    4. Grab your new stat weights and put those back into AMR.
    5. Repeat until you get the highest DPS score. Then use those optimizations.

    Here's a blog post on using SimC with AMR: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2013/04/h...with-mr-robot/

    Also, try turning on the beta optimizer (under options, on the upper right look for a beta check box). The new algorithm guarantees to get you the absolute best set of reforges, gems and enchants
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Yoshioo, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Everything Mr. Robot does is math based on the stat weights. However, SimC gives you stat weights based on your current gear (plus tiny changes to stats). So by the time you optimize, it's possible SimC would give you new stat weights.

    Your best bet is to do this:
    1. Put your custom weights into Mr. Robot. Click optimize.
    2. Click the 'export' button on our site and grab the SimC code.
    3. Go to the Simulate tab of SimC and paste our code. Click Simulate.
    4. Grab your new stat weights and put those back into AMR.
    5. Repeat until you get the highest DPS score. Then use those optimizations.

    Here's a blog post on using SimC with AMR: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2013/04/h...with-mr-robot/

    Also, try turning on the beta optimizer (under options, on the upper right look for a beta check box). The new algorithm guarantees to get you the absolute best set of reforges, gems and enchants
    This is not really necessarily correct, Basic example.

    Lets say you have up to 1000 stat that you can move freely between two stats but no other alterations are possible (for simplicity). And lets say that the best solution is to have 500 of each. If you currently have 1000 toward Haste and simcraft is looking at increments to each stat; mastery may be stronger as haste loses value past that mid point. Using the stat weights you will get out, AMR would tell you to forge / gem toward the 1000 Mastery in completeness at the weights are not dynamic. Resimming at the 1000 toward Mastery scenario could likely yield results with haste as the highest stat, causing you to then reforge / gem completely to haste, never finding that ultimate middle point. This is the scenario that the OP and others are running into.

    The correct way to maximise your dps single target is to incrementally undertaken reforges / regemming where it won't affect your hit cap to work ou the right place. What you will find is there will be a 'gap' wether ratio wise or numerically wise that should be maintained between haste and mastery where simcraft will maintain approximate stat weights. Prior to the LVB change this was just a certain amount of haste at which point mastery was always slightly better then 1 more point of haste for myself. With the LVB change this is pretty much how totemspot describes it, with minor variations for particular gear setups.

    Ultimately, however, a full haste / full mastery reforge are very close to eachother, so go with whichever feels better... Next tier we will cap haste / mastery? And then it will just be about dropping to crit as much as possible.

    By the way, ask mr robot should have an option to value hit as the highest of your normal stat weight when comparing items or just in general. I find it extremely frustrating to see a spirit (hit) mastery item valued higher than a haste mastery item at high gear levels when obviously that spirit (hit) will just move around on reforges on other gear (generally to your best stat if possible). Removes my ability to quickly compare individual items and make decisions on loot distribution. I tried setting the value lower, but then it doesn't cap.
    Last edited by desert-wind; 2013-08-14 at 04:58 AM.

  9. #9
    Desert, you are obviously well knowledged about SimC! So here's a bit more info you might find useful: you're correct about the haste/mastery example. So when we make our stat weights, we actually run them through a program we wrote that interfaces with SimC. We test out real gear sets and real reforge/gem options and run them through SimC. We continue iterating until we find a stable set of stat weights (and any relevant haste breakpoints). We try to make sure our default stat weights get you to where you want to be - if you're going to add 1000 of 1+ stats, we want to make sure you are working towards the best setup (not based on your current exact setup). If that distinction makes sense.

    Regarding the hit/spirit gear scenario. If I'm following correctly, I believe we can already handle what you want to do. When you load a gear list, you should see a couple of ranking options: absolute and relative. Absolute ranks items in a vaccuum - it's a measure of how good that item is, all by itself, including the best gems, enchants and reforges. However, the absolute ranking isn't going to take caps into account, so the hit is valued at 100%, as you have noticed.

    Relative ranking assumes you are only replacing that ONE slot. It takes all of your other gear and stats into account. So if you are looking at the chest list, Mr. Robot will equip it behind the scenes and run an optimization on the entire set of gear. He looks at the overall score difference, and that's the score assigned to that particular item. This is done for every item in the list. Now, let's say it's best to keep all of the hit on one of the chest pieces in the list, and reforge your weapon out of hit instead. That does NOT assign all of the hit value to the chest - it only looks at the difference in score, for the entire set of gear.

    So give 'relative ranking' a try - let me know if it does more what you're looking for. If not, let me know and give me another example so we can add it to our list of improvements.
    1
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Yoshioo, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Everything Mr. Robot does is math based on the stat weights. However, SimC gives you stat weights based on your current gear (plus tiny changes to stats). So by the time you optimize, it's possible SimC would give you new stat weights.

    Your best bet is to do this:
    1. Put your custom weights into Mr. Robot. Click optimize.
    2. Click the 'export' button on our site and grab the SimC code.
    3. Go to the Simulate tab of SimC and paste our code. Click Simulate.
    4. Grab your new stat weights and put those back into AMR.
    5. Repeat until you get the highest DPS score. Then use those optimizations.

    Here's a blog post on using SimC with AMR: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2013/04/h...with-mr-robot/

    Also, try turning on the beta optimizer (under options, on the upper right look for a beta check box). The new algorithm guarantees to get you the absolute best set of reforges, gems and enchants
    Thank you so much! Im gonna try that out today b4 raid and give it a shot (eventhough it will take a long time to sim like 2-4 ?!? times)

    Quote Originally Posted by desert-wind View Post
    The correct way to maximise your dps single target is to incrementally undertaken reforges / regemming where it won't affect your hit cap to work ou the right place. What you will find is there will be a 'gap' wether ratio wise or numerically wise that should be maintained between haste and mastery where simcraft will maintain approximate stat weights. Prior to the LVB change this was just a certain amount of haste at which point mastery was always slightly better then 1 more point of haste for myself. With the LVB change this is pretty much how totemspot describes it, with minor variations for particular gear setups.

    Ultimately, however, a full haste / full mastery reforge are very close to eachother, so go with whichever feels better... Next tier we will cap haste / mastery? And then it will just be about dropping to crit as much as possible.
    so that means i forge/gem like 500 hast to mastery or vice versa and sim again ?!?

  11. #11
    Yoshioo - yes you can change just a few stats at a time and resim like desert suggested. You can manually do that on AskMrRobot.com so you don't have to waste real gold in game. Just click on any gem or reforge on our site and a window will popup. You can then select whatever you want to play around with stats. Then click the export button to get code for importing into SimC.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

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