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  1. #1

    Elemental shaman haste break points/soft caps

    Hiya,
    i am an experienced resto shammy and ive recently started to get to know elemental shammy, i just have one question and thats haste breaking points ....im currently holding the 4 set with 37% mastery and 13.48% haste(5730) can anybody be critical enough to help me ?

    /apriel

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Elemental ignores all haste breakpoints. Getting an extra tick of flameshock is an incredibly minuscule damage increase. You either stack haste or mastery, depending on PE/EB choice.
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  3. #3
    theres got to be a point where mastery becomes more important though....
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    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaNinja View Post
    theres got to be a point where mastery becomes more important though....
    "Haste breakpoints" usually refer to the numbers at which a DoT or HoT gains another tick, or at which a spell is GCD capped.

    There isn't a set point at which haste magically falls behind mastery. Haste is superior for EB for a very brief period. Mastery becomes better... I would guess somewhere around 480ish ilvl (but you should always sim yourself anyway, regardless of what anyone says). Haste is superior to mastery for PE basically the entire time. I'm at 500ilvl and haste still sims higher (though not by much). Once you get close to LvB being GCD capped most of the time, mastery will start to pull ahead. I'm guessing we'll hit that point somewhere in the next tier, probably in early heroic raid level.
    Last edited by Eruionmel; 2013-01-18 at 02:44 PM.
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  5. #5
    thanks for your help
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
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  6. #6
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    No problem.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    There isn't a set point at which haste magically falls behind mastery. Haste is superior for EB for a very brief period. Mastery becomes better... I would guess somewhere around 480ish ilvl (but you should always sim yourself anyway, regardless of what anyone says).
    Why do people keep saying this? I'm at il 504 and use EB almost exclusively. Haste sims better than Mastery just like it did at 494, and 484 and 474. I keep seeing people make this blanket statement that Mastery is better for an EB build and I feel like it must be based on personal 'feeling' because I've never seen any theorycrafting proof on this forum or anywhere else, and Haste consistently sims better for me. Maybe it comes down to the settings people use on Simcraft.

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    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegempolice View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? I'm at il 504 and use EB almost exclusively. Haste sims better than Mastery just like it did at 494, and 484 and 474. I keep seeing people make this blanket statement that Mastery is better for an EB build and I feel like it must be based on personal 'feeling' because I've never seen any theorycrafting proof on this forum or anywhere else, and Haste consistently sims better for me. Maybe it comes down to the settings people use on Simcraft.
    The second I switch to EB, mastery jumps way ahead of haste (and it's been like this for at least 2 months). In fact, crit very nearly eclipses haste. Most people I've seen using EB have switched to mastery priority, so I would assume they are also simming it higher. Are you using EM or EotE? EM probably favors mastery, where EotE favors haste. If you're using EB and EotE, I could see haste coming out on top still. But hey, simcraft sometimes does weird stuff for people. Like that guy who posted saying that crit was simming out above mastery and haste.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by thegempolice View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? I'm at il 504 and use EB almost exclusively. Haste sims better than Mastery just like it did at 494, and 484 and 474. I keep seeing people make this blanket statement that Mastery is better for an EB build and I feel like it must be based on personal 'feeling' because I've never seen any theorycrafting proof on this forum or anywhere else, and Haste consistently sims better for me. Maybe it comes down to the settings people use on Simcraft.
    I'm using EotE + EB and mastery pulled ahead when I had around 5,5k haste.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Brightleaf (the haste one) is simming 500 DPS lower than Ets, and according to his sim should be using mastery. Not only that, both of them sim mastery and crit over haste.

    Brightleaf : 106280 dps
    1.55mas > 1.49crit > 1.38haste

    Ets : 106727 dps
    1.54mas > 1.49crit > 1.35haste

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 01:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeequ View Post
    I'm using EotE + EB and mastery pulled ahead when I had around 5,5k haste.
    Good to know, thank you. Oh, also, has crit also pulled ahead of haste? And if so, any idea when? Or were they concurrent?
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    Dreadlord Kaga's Avatar
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    Possibly stupid question, but nevertheless...

    What is the first step after finding weights via simming? Surely a regem/forge would then change the weights, in such a way that would change their order again?

    I've been blindly stacking haste all expac without being aware that both mastery and crit might overtake at some point, so i should probably consider simming my char and tidying things up a bit.
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  13. #13
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaga View Post
    Possibly stupid question, but nevertheless...

    What is the first step after finding weights via simming? Surely a regem/forge would then change the weights, in such a way that would change their order again?

    I've been blindly stacking haste all expac without being aware that both mastery and crit might overtake at some point, so i should probably consider simming my char and tidying things up a bit.
    If you look above, those two shaman with very similar ilvls were using different stat priorities, but their stat weights were almost identical. I'm not positive that this remains true at all times, but it may. Regardless, you can always reforge for the priority that simcraft gives you and then resim yourself to see which of the two comes out highest.
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    Dreadlord Kaga's Avatar
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    I guess iteration is key?

    I just foresee simming to find that mastery is king, do some optimisation in-game, sim again to find haste is king. repeat. D:
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  15. #15
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaga View Post
    I guess iteration is key?

    I just foresee simming to find that mastery is king, do some optimisation in-game, sim again to find haste is king. repeat. D:
    I very much doubt that you would find that to be your experience; however, if you did, that would just mean that mastery and haste are fairly equal for you and you could balance them for the best result.
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  16. #16
    Dreadlord Kaga's Avatar
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    Good point tbh, ty!
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    Brightleaf (the haste one) is simming 500 DPS lower than Ets, and according to his sim should be using mastery. Not only that, both of them sim mastery and crit over haste.

    Brightleaf : 106280 dps
    1.55mas > 1.49crit > 1.38haste

    Ets : 106727 dps
    1.54mas > 1.49crit > 1.35haste

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 01:31 PM ----------



    Good to know, thank you. Oh, also, has crit also pulled ahead of haste? And if so, any idea when? Or were they concurrent?
    Try simming this one http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Advol/advanced :P
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    Good to know, thank you. Oh, also, has crit also pulled ahead of haste? And if so, any idea when? Or were they concurrent?
    Yes Crit pulls ahead aswell, haven't looked into it better. Somewhere around the same time as Mastery.

    What I've noticed is that haste is on a yoyo effect. The more haste you have, the more it sims for. Currently at around 5,5k haste haste sims for 1.0x and at 7k+ haste it simmed for 1,3x.
    Last edited by Zeequ; 2013-01-19 at 03:18 PM.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Advol : 94004 dps
    1.40mas > 1.35haste > 1.29crit
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    die welt ist doch ein dorf

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    Advol : 94004 dps
    1.40mas > 1.35haste > 1.29crit
    what settings did you use?

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