Elemental shaman haste break points/soft caps

[Deleted]

Do I glyph fire elemental if I take EP? Since it also reduces the uptime from the elemental..

[Deleted]

Tested PE with Haste > Mastery yesterday, and I was always lower on DPS than EB with Haste > Mastery. Hell, I even ranked on the kill.

[Nebria]

Do I glyph fire elemental if I take EP? Since it also reduces the up time from the elemental..

depends on the fight length. there is no full talent/glyph setup set in stone you could use for all bosses.

[Kesandri]

Do I glyph fire elemental if I take EP? Since it also reduces the uptime from the elemental..

You will need to know the length of the fight so you can work out the total time of FE uptime you would have with or without glyph.

[Eruionmel]

Tested PE with Haste > Mastery yesterday, and I was always lower on DPS than EB with Haste > Mastery. Hell, I even ranked on the kill.

PE is lower DPS on low-movement fights, there's no contesting that. However, I find the DPS difference to usually be in the realm of 1k or so with perfect gameplay. Any mistakes in rotation due to the extra spell and the difference shrinks. Any unexpected/extraneous movement when EB is off cooldown and the difference shrinks. Basically, I find PE performs close enough that I don't mind the difference. I rank regularly with it.

[Anaphaze]

You need to stop simming your DPS on Patchwerk fights. What fight this tier is a Patchwerk fight? The answer is none. When you sim ANY of these high end shamans, or when I sim myself, on any fight style other than Patchwerk, Haste is always higher. You need to gear for the fight you're doing, not the way Simulationcraft Patchwerk fights tell you to do. For example on a Helter Skelter fight, brightleaf's stat weights are: 1.54 haste 1.41 mastery 1.35 crit.

[Nebria]

You need to stop simming your DPS on Patchwerk fights. What fight this tier is a Patchwerk fight? The answer is none. When you sim ANY of these high end shamans, or when I sim myself, on any fight style other than Patchwerk, Haste is always higher. You need to gear for the fight you're doing, not the way Simulationcraft Patchwerk fights tell you to do. For example on a Helter Skelter fight, brightleaf's stat weights are: 1.54 haste 1.41 mastery 1.35 crit.

yes that's true. question is what model fits real raids best? I read somewhere helter skelter needs some improvement. also what means helter skelter? what is it simulating? movement? adds?
also every boss is different from each other. some have more movement some have less. on some you use cl to cleave. so overall you see simc can't give you data which fits every where for every time.

wow head is describing the styles this way

The two options here are Patchwerk or Helter Skelter. Flickwerk is a boss in Naxxramas whose name has become synonymous with fights that expect no movement from DPSers, allowing them to concentrate completely on their rotations. A helter skelter simulation is one where damage is prevent periodically to simulate fights where you are forced to move or are otherwise unable to do damage.
Patchwerk sims don't closely model many actual fights but they do give a good baseline for things like stat weights and makes a good default.

[Angrytauren]

I know I fail for asking this, but what is the final conclusion...I read almost every post but I have close to no clue how simcraft works. At what point does Mastery overlap haste if it ever does?

And should I take EP or EB with said stats?

I'm not rich enough to reforge/gem all stats so I can't just go and test it :<

If you aren't interested in number crunching or running sims, a good rule of thumb is to treat mastery as our breakpoint stat and haste as our stack-it-up stat. Because of how our mastery works(Giving us a % chance to duplicate a spell), aiming for fractions: 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4- is more likely to generate an additional cast over an odd percentage, because of the rule of RNG.

So these breakpoints would be: 25%, 33.3%, 50%, 66.6%, 75%.

It's not a perfect system, but it's close to awesome for an all purpose rule of thumb.