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  1. #161
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Let's say that you like manual cars, but they offer you a ferrari, but it's going to be an automatic car. Will you be stupid enough to keep a 90HP manual car rather than take the automatic 300HP car?


    No you won't. So same goes here.
    Sure I would. B/c the insurance cost of that Ferrari alone would bankrupt me.

    @Topic: Seriously people, get a grip. The quest density in MoP is so high, that flying wouldn't save you much time anyway. Most of the time I don't even mount up on my land mount, because Where I need to go is just 20m away.

    I could understand your whine if the quests were like the pre Cata Duskwood, when you ran 5mins straight... every 3 damn quests ... <_<

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Sure I would. B/c the insurance cost of that Ferrari alone would bankrupt me.

    @Topic: Seriously people, get a grip. The quest density in MoP is so high, that flying wouldn't save you much time anyway. Most of the time I don't even mount up on my land mount, because Where I need to go is just 20m away.

    I could understand your whine if the quests were like the pre Cata Duskwood, when you ran 5mins straight... every 3 damn quests ... <_<
    pretty much, was gonna say thats why flying wouldn't really matter to me lol

    and darkpower, I agree I don't mind if they were to add a tome (priced up alot) to give flying AT LEAST by maybe 87 but not 85 like the OP wants

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Wollveren View Post
    I am sure if you were capable of suffering 5 times, you can suffer another couple of times, suck it up because it really does not take that long. Flying mounts are unnecessary, it is unfair, goes away from the vision of what Blizzard wants (an actual world) and simply is an excuse for people to level faster. I am fine if Pandaria flying was added in the next expansion, but in the mean time it is not required. I remember in catac I made NO friend while questing simply because some one would fly into the middle, tag a mob, kill it and fly away. Really no challenge, no danger WHAT SO EVER. In MOP I enjoyed it, I made friends etc... Just because it is your 718571th character, doesn't instantly mean of you have the right to low level flying.

    And what do all of you even need so many alts for? There is plenty to do on 1 max level 90.
    This one, on the other hand.

    No shit if I've done it 5 times I can do it 6 more times. And ya know, if the time comes and that's the way it is, then that's how I'll do it. However, if they allow alts to get it sooner, I'll be right in line with every one else to get it. (Unless they make it comically cost prohibitive or something stupid)

    That being said, are you honestly implying that after leveling to level cap once, twice, 5 times, whatever, that there is any kind of danger or challenge? You already know the quests, you already know the efficient ways to do things. Doing it on foot is just slower due to travel times and working through some extra trash mobs. It isn't harder, just more tedious.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    I've had enough of pandaren "culture" on 2 alts to last me for 10 lifetimes, is there really a point to still enforce the no flying rule?

    You can't even pick different starting zones to level and having to endure their "we're peaceful but go kill 90% of the local wildlife and populace" bs at ground mount leveling speed is just torture.
    I guess you havent been playing during Vanilla and during time when you could mount up not before lvl40.... God i miss those days....

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    While I don't agree with all of what he would want, thing is that he's correct in saying that everything he brought up was something you still had to actually do the work to earn and do.

    Thing is, though, it's the constant war of the fringes that makes this debate very painful to go through every time I see it. Everyone is so ready to pounce on the exact same argument: wanting less work with more reward, as you said (and made sure we saw, I guess).

    Thing is, I agree that there should be some kind of heirloom like in Wrath. Alts shouldn't have to be punished. Why? Because, thing is, what else do you have to prove at this point? You've DONE the work on your main. You've proven worthy of being level 90 and all that. Why do you have to do the same thing twice, three, maybe even four times.

    This is the same reason why Blizz did the Grand Commendations, and gave us heirlooms to level up our alts faster. If you're going to tell us that alts should be punished, or that we should be punished for wanting to try out everything that the game has to offer, you better be damn good and ready to let them take away something that we had to run numerous dungeons to get (heirloom gear costs some JP, after all, and we've more than invested in a good bit of that by now, have we all?).

    If you're not ready to tell us that we should get rid of heirloom gear and the GCs (and give a good reason why they should, and give us proof that you don't use them on your alts), then don't come on here trying to say that a flying heirloom tome shouldn't be allowed to exist here. It's as simple as that, really.

    I do agree with the OP (though his attitude is just god awful...though I do believe given what I said above about how this debate degrades into a shouting match of "you bad!" "no you bad!" like every other proposed change seems to do, I can see why he develops that sort of attitude: it's fucking tiresome). There should be something in the regards to some kind of heirloom. Why not have that extra reward for doing that hard work?
    I can come on here and say whatever I like. I am backing Blizzards decision. In no way is using flying mounts "punishing" anyone. if you think playing the game is punishment, stop playing. Break up with WoW.

    It is not punishment. Regarding it as such is a straw man, and a bullshit argument. I can be against one thing, and for another. With your logic, you MUST be in favor of ALL your toons getting whatever your main has. So having one 90 with a 500 iLvl, should earn every character you make get the same. See howw dumb that sounds? Its a fallacy, and a dumb argument. I can think armor heirlooms in general are okay, but think flying in general is bad. When flying was announced, I thought it was a bad idea, and I back Blizzards take on it: Much of their staff regrets it, and dislikes the decision.

    Please review your argument.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  6. #166
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    In tbc was like that and everyone claims they loved it ... unbelieavable right ?

    In wotlk was like that till 77 and everyone claims they loved it .. unbelieavable right ?
    Bravo!!! Well done.

    It is stunning that there is no end to how Lazy and Whiney the Playerbase becomes.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    I guess you havent been playing during Vanilla and during time when you could mount up not before lvl40.... God i miss those days....
    days that never made any sense. you don't need to be a dragonslayer to be able to ride a horse. heck, I can do it, and I can't even kill roaches.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    In tbc was like that and everyone claims they loved it ... unbelieavable right ?

    In wotlk was like that till 77 and everyone claims they loved it .. unbelieavable right ?
    I'll say it for the thousandth time. If Blizzard sets a precedence for easiness players will get used to it and going back to another style is going to piss the playerbase the hell off and hurt their sub numbers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 11:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    Bravo!!! Well done.

    It is stunning that there is no end to how Lazy and Whiney the Playerbase becomes.
    Blizzard made the playerbase this way. They gave players easier routes to do things, got them used to it (as it's pretty damn easy to get used to something easier) and then took it away.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  9. #169
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I don't care if they aren't going to let me fly, but quit making me pay to get it back its bullshit.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I'll say it for the thousandth time. If Blizzard sets a precedence for easiness players will get used to it and going back to another style is going to piss the playerbase the hell off and hurt their sub numbers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 11:24 PM ----------



    Blizzard made the playerbase this way. They gave players easier routes to do things, got them used to it (as it's pretty damn easy to get used to something easier) and then took it away.
    I agree, setting the precedence is bad. I do not agree the whiny playerbase is their fault.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    days that never made any sense. you don't need to be a dragonslayer to be able to ride a horse. heck, I can do it, and I can't even kill roaches.
    And can you kill a dragon or Ragnaros in real life? WoW is a game its not real life and as such cant be implemented into a real life and what can you do or cant do in real life. I cant ride a horse but i can ride a car, truck, bicycle, i can wakeboard, hell i can even climb a rope....

    I miss the days when REAL TWINK was lvl19, when you couldnt hop on mount and cross entire region in 5min....

  12. #172
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I'll say it for the thousandth time. If Blizzard sets a precedence for easiness players will get used to it and going back to another style is going to piss the playerbase the hell off and hurt their sub numbers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 11:24 PM ----------



    Blizzard made the playerbase this way. They gave players easier routes to do things, got them used to it (as it's pretty damn easy to get used to something easier) and then took it away.
    It's not about pissing off. If I have seen the zones already multiple times, why can't I fly?

    I hate riding my ground mount, getting randomly dismounted by a fucking foot tall rat and moving slow as a turtle.

    I'd be fine if it required say; All zones fully completed(Quests) and 3 lvl 90 characters. But just bring it back to the game. Make it be another "Heirloom".

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I agree, setting the precedence is bad. I do not agree the whiny playerbase is their fault.
    The whiny playerbase as been around since vanilla beta. The current iteration of that playerbase is entirely on Blizzard. They have constantly switched their design philosophies 180 degrees back and forth for the past 8 years. It's no wonder that Blizzard has effectively replaced it's original playerbase (see blue post where GC says: we've lost more players in total than we have now).

    P.S. Fan sites ARE full of veterans but that's a very small minority.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I can come on here and say whatever I like. I am backing Blizzards decision. In no way is using flying mounts "punishing" anyone. if you think playing the game is punishment, stop playing. Break up with WoW.

    It is not punishment. Regarding it as such is a straw man, and a bullshit argument. I can be against one thing, and for another. With your logic, you MUST be in favor of ALL your toons getting whatever your main has. So having one 90 with a 500 iLvl, should earn every character you make get the same. See howw dumb that sounds? Its a fallacy, and a dumb argument. I can think armor heirlooms in general are okay, but think flying in general is bad. When flying was announced, I thought it was a bad idea, and I back Blizzards take on it: Much of their staff regrets it, and dislikes the decision.

    Please review your argument.
    I think you should review what I said, because I mentioned something about heirloom gear and the Grand Commendations being a way that Blizzard does ease the pain of leveling alts (which my post was actually about. Never said anything about running heroics or gearing up alts...not the same thing as leveling or rep grinding). And did I say that playing the game is punishment? Reread what I said. Going through the same content time and time again after you've done the same thing countless times before is not fun. It is the first few times you do it, but, as has been the argument, the fourth or fifth time you do it, it just becomes tedious and repetitive to do. Regardless of how fun it is, it becomes demanding if the same limitations are on you over and over again.

    And in a way, Blizz HAS punished those that rolled alts, especially when you see Blizz trying to encourage people playing multiple toons with the heirloom gear and even putting a tip in the loading screens bringing them up. Seems Blizz wants for us to try different classes, and that's the best way to do it: to encourage the leveling of alts, and the easier that is, the better chance of that happening will be. But once you hit 85 and get on that ship to go to Pandaria, it suddenly seems like Blizzard doesn't want any alts there, which makes things sort of confusing that they make all these avenues to make the alt experience seem joyful and entertaining, then suddenly do a 180 and it becomes grueling and demanding every single time.

    And you forget to mention that this suggestion was actually done in Wrath with very little complaints. Why is it different now?
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  15. #175
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I can come on here and say whatever I like. I am backing Blizzards decision. In no way is using flying mounts "punishing" anyone. if you think playing the game is punishment, stop playing. Break up with WoW.

    It is not punishment. Regarding it as such is a straw man, and a bullshit argument. I can be against one thing, and for another. With your logic, you MUST be in favor of ALL your toons getting whatever your main has. So having one 90 with a 500 iLvl, should earn every character you make get the same. See howw dumb that sounds? Its a fallacy, and a dumb argument. I can think armor heirlooms in general are okay, but think flying in general is bad. When flying was announced, I thought it was a bad idea, and I back Blizzards take on it: Much of their staff regrets it, and dislikes the decision.

    Please review your argument.
    So as far as your statement I would love nothing more than to have to level only 1 character. I hate leveling and quests with a passion, I only play this game to raid, do dungeons, PVP, and do Pet Battles. I just want to be max level on all of my characters instantly.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    And can you kill a dragon or Ragnaros in real life? WoW is a game its not real life and as such cant be implemented into a real life and what can you do or cant do in real life. I cant ride a horse but i can ride a car, truck, bicycle, i can wakeboard, hell i can even climb a rope....
    just because WoW characters can do more than people in real life, doesn't mean they should do less in other parts.

    one instance that shows how much bulshit this artificial gating of mounting is: the worgen. in the worgen starting zone you are given a horse to ride several times, and you ride it! there's no "you don't know how to do that yet". you just do it.

    and than you magically forget how to ride a horse until level 20.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    --snip--
    By the way, when did I ever say that you couldn't respond, or refused your right to say anything?

    Does "be more mature in posts" somehow translate to "shut the fuck up" to some people?
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  18. #178
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Blizzard made the playerbase this way. They gave players easier routes to do things, got them used to it (as it's pretty damn easy to get used to something easier) and then took it away.
    Agreed. Which is why Wrath of the Lichking was pure poison for the Community.
    It was a great Addon content wise, but the lack of difficulty changed the people. Permanently.
    All attempts to reverse that will create huge amounts of whine and ragequits. (See beginning of Cata)

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The whiny playerbase as been around since vanilla beta. The current iteration of that playerbase is entirely on Blizzard. They have constantly switched their design philosophies 180 degrees back and forth for the past 8 years. It's no wonder that Blizzard has effectively replaced it's original playerbase (see blue post where GC says: we've lost more players in total than we have now).

    P.S. Fan sites ARE full of veterans but that's a very small minority.
    I disagree. This implied that the players are somehow too stupid and out of control they can't understand simple logic/game design, or even control their own emotions at all. Blizzard tries to appease the player base, and no matter what the player base bitches. I know who the real problem is.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    I think you should review what I said, because I mentioned something about heirloom gear and the Grand Commendations being a way that Blizzard does ease the pain of leveling alts (which my post was actually about. Never said anything about running heroics or gearing up alts...not the same thing as leveling or rep grinding). And did I say that playing the game is punishment? Reread what I said. Going through the same content time and time again after you've done the same thing countless times before is not fun. It is the first few times you do it, but, as has been the argument, the fourth or fifth time you do it, it just becomes tedious and repetitive to do. Regardless of how fun it is, it becomes demanding if the same limitations are on you over and over again.

    And in a way, Blizz HAS punished those that rolled alts, especially when you see Blizz trying to encourage people playing multiple toons with the heirloom gear and even putting a tip in the loading screens bringing them up. Seems Blizz wants for us to try different classes, and that's the best way to do it: to encourage the leveling of alts, and the easier that is, the better chance of that happening will be. But once you hit 85 and get on that ship to go to Pandaria, it suddenly seems like Blizzard doesn't want any alts there, which makes things sort of confusing that they make all these avenues to make the alt experience seem joyful and entertaining, then suddenly do a 180 and it becomes grueling and demanding every single time.

    And you forget to mention that this suggestion was actually done in Wrath with very little complaints. Why is it different now?
    No, you stated multiple times that its punishing you by making you wait until 90 to fly. You still have to go through it regardless of flying or not. If you think playing the game is punishment, then stop playing. Why would you care to get more to 90? As you said "going through the content time and time again is not fun" ... so why would you want to run heroics and do LFR on different toons, that wouldn't be fun according to you.

    No, its not punishing you to play more than one alt. It is easy regardless of flying. It is in no way grueling or demanding: You are obviously a very new player. You can mindlessly do the insanely easy quests regardless of flying.

    Again, please review your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    So as far as your statement I would love nothing more than to have to level only 1 character. I hate leveling and quests with a passion, I only play this game to raid, do dungeons, PVP, and do Pet Battles. I just want to be max level on all of my characters instantly.
    Sorry, thats lazy.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 06:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    By the way, when did I ever say that you couldn't respond, or refused your right to say anything?

    Does "be more mature in posts" somehow translate to "shut the fuck up" to some people?
    If you're not ready to tell us that we should get rid of heirloom gear and the GCs (and give a good reason why they should, and give us proof that you don't use them on your alts), then don't come on here trying to say that a flying heirloom tome shouldn't be allowed to exist here.
    Yes, this statement is read as an ultimatum. You are giving me two choices: Agree with you or don't speak.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    just because WoW characters can do more than people in real life, doesn't mean they should do less in other parts.

    one instance that shows how much bulshit this artificial gating of mounting is: the worgen. in the worgen starting zone you are given a horse to ride several times, and you ride it! there's no "you don't know how to do that yet". you just do it.

    and than you magically forget how to ride a horse until level 20.
    Well then lets all teleport across the map by simply clicking on desired location, hell we dont need mounts then. Or when we take quest we should just appear next to mob we need to kill, or box we need to open or something we need to do...

    In a dream i can fly and then when i wake up i cant, who took that skill away from me? People forget to ride bicycle when they go through some traumatic experience ( hit in a head ). So? Whats your point?

    I would be more happier if mounts get back to lvl40 and then lvl60 with removal of flying mounts...

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